So Other than GamerGate, Brexit, and Trump What's New?

[fiksal]

Never met any so-called SJWs that asked for the censorship

O'rly?

That effort succeeded, but that was back in 2014 when SJWs had more power -- before GamerGate won the war against Social Justice censorship (and the ethics of gaming journalists reviewing the games of developers with whom they have intimate relationships of course, but the fight to bring ethics to gaming journalism uncovered a deeper rot.)

I am not sure why you have posted that. That is an example of nothing.

Not even a single mention of SJW, nor it's an example of a censorship.
And did it succeed? Pretty sure I saw GTA in Target.

Outside of the censorship of video games, which the success of the GamerGate campaign delivered us from, SJWs enjoy harassing and deplatforming anyone who disagrees with them, and when harassment doesn't work they use violence to get their way.

There's no point in any of this. I'll never come to defense of gamergaters after they harassed so many people. End of story; they are trash with no redeeming qualities.

... feminism ...

A hate group, like the Klan but with different-styled hoods. They're in the habit of falsely accusing innocent men of rape, particularly on college campuses. The 'victim-centered narrative" is an excuse for lynch mobs to conduct witch hunts and show trials. Due process is a human right; to those of us who understand due process the victim of a false accusation is the falsely accused; accordingly before one can "center the narrative" on "the victim" one must first determine who is victim and who perpetrator in a court of law by fair trial based on evidence.

Oh no, a hate group?


Where do I join

[Aye Capn]

On the semantic question of whether SJWs won or lost their crusade against GTA5, they won the battle of Target Australia but lost the war for global censorship.
Womp womp.

Support your claims with evidence or don't make them.

The Potbangers

If you talking about show trials than I assume you believe the US court system is no longer working properly ...

Colleges have set up their own parallel Courts of Social Justice, where the accused often have no right of cross examination or even counsel and the "victim-centered narrative" presumes the guilt of the accused.

The ABA and Senator Kirsten Gillibrand (yes, the same one who slandered Paul Nungesser as a rapist) are trying to import their Stalinist "Social Justice" into the American justice system, but thanks to our President Donald J. Trump and his hero of due process Department of Education Secretary Betsy DeVos not only are we stopping this march of injustice in its tracks, we're bringing justice to college campuses as well.

[fiksal]

sorry I almost spilled my coffee. you lost me at Stalinist


not all heroes wear capes, but some have boats and work against public education? .... Is that how the saying goes?

[clakclak]

[..]

Unlike the KKK I haven't seen any feminists lynch anyone, in fact the Anti-lynching movement was carried by feminists like Ida B. Wells. Support your claims with evidence or don't make them.

The Potbangers

You really do believe that people holding up a banner is equal to a mob dragging a black person from his home and stringing him up on a tree for being black, don't you?

Honestly I don't even know if there is any chance of us finding any common ground if your arguments are that removed from reality.

If you talking about show trials than I assume you believe the US court system is no longer working properly ...

Colleges have set up their own parallel Courts of Social Justice, where the accused often have no right of cross examination or even counsel and the "victim-centered narrative" presumes the guilt of the accused.

The ABA and Senator Kirsten Gillibrand (yes, the same one who slandered Paul Nungesser as a rapist) are trying to import their Stalinist "Social Justice" into the American justice system, but thanks to our President Donald J. Trump and his hero of due process Department of Education Secretary Betsy DeVos not only are we stopping this march of injustice in its tracks, we're bringing justice to college campuses as well.

I assume Josef Stalin is turning in bis grave after being connected to Kirsten Gillibrand. The two habe nothing in common whatsoever.

[Skism]

[..]

Unlike the KKK I haven't seen any feminists lynch anyone, in fact the Anti-lynching movement was carried by feminists like Ida B. Wells. Support your claims with evidence or don't make them.

The Potbangers

You really do believe that people holding up a banner is equal to a mob dragging a black person from his home and stringing him up on a tree for being black, don't you?

Honestly I don't even know if there is any chance of us finding any common ground if your arguments are that removed from reality.

If you talking about show trials than I assume you believe the US court system is no longer working properly ...

Colleges have set up their own parallel Courts of Social Justice, where the accused often have no right of cross examination or even counsel and the "victim-centered narrative" presumes the guilt of the accused.

The ABA and Senator Kirsten Gillibrand (yes, the same one who slandered Paul Nungesser as a rapist) are trying to import their Stalinist "Social Justice" into the American justice system, but thanks to our President Donald J. Trump and his hero of due process Department of Education Secretary Betsy DeVos not only are we stopping this march of injustice in its tracks, we're bringing justice to college campuses as well.

I assume Josef Stalin is turning in bis grave after being connected to Kirsten Gillibrand. The two habe nothing in common whatsoever.

Removed from reality?!?

SERIOUSLY!!!

They are holding up a banner that says CASTRATE - they do not believe in due process they believe in extrajudical violence

So yes it is the bigotry of our time.

The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.

And you have demonstrated you can't find common ground with the truth. so you hate it.

[CBJ]

This thread is heading nowhere fast. If things continue as they are then there will be people joining it in forum oblivion.

[Chips]

[..]

Unlike the KKK I haven't seen any feminists lynch anyone, in fact the Anti-lynching movement was carried by feminists like Ida B. Wells. Support your claims with evidence or don't make them.

The Potbangers

You really do believe that people holding up a banner is equal to a mob dragging a black person from his home and stringing him up on a tree for being black, don't you?

Honestly I don't even know if there is any chance of us finding any common ground if your arguments are that removed from reality.

Removed from reality?!?

SERIOUSLY!!!

They are holding up a banner that says CASTRATE - they do not believe in due process they believe in extrajudical violence.

Skism, are you saying holding a banner saying "Castrate" is equal in severity and seriousness to physically dragging a person of different race from their home, beating them and hanging them?

How on earth were those evil banner holding devils not Jailed for life with the full force of the law for their crime

So what's wrong with feminism as a concept? What's so awful and terrible about feminism - why is it so unjust that some posters here see it as "a bad thing"? Any rational explanations?

Likewise, why label "social justice warrior" to anything that appears to have any opposing viewpoint to something you believe/want?

SJW seems chosen due to the link of several unfavourable actions (or behaviours, bordering illegal or actually illegal) and then applied to any group, movement, collective that holds an opinion that differs from your own. It seems a lazy way of convenience to dismiss something "oh it's sjw so instantly not valid concerns" rather than examine the issue rationally. Pfft.

Some of the posts in these threads are borderline hysterical, it's ridiculous/embarrassing to read.

[Morkonan]

Not barging into your discussion, just making a side-comment.

...So what's wrong with feminism as a concept? What's so awful and terrible about feminism - why is it so unjust that some posters here see it as "a bad thing"? Any rational explanations?

It's an "'ism."

Think about what that means.

"a distinctive practice, system, or philosophy, typically a political ideology or an artistic movement"

It's not just someone suggesting "equality." It's a "belief system" and it's one that's generally being applied with a very broad brush by a few very vocal people who have very nearly found self-actualization within it...

To what does "feminism" apply? Feminism applies itself to.. everything. It's not about "equality in the workplace" or "social equality." It's about "it's not fair that men can open pickle jars and women can not! You had better crusade for flip-top pickle jars or you are a male chauvinist pig!"

It's a belief system that's a very bad social-shotgun of principles. It lacks focus, insisting that, as a "life choice" it can, by its devotees, be applied to everything. "It's so very wonderful! It's so very powerful! It's relevant to every single thing! Anything! Everything!"

And, if it's everything, it's really not much of anything.

Some may say that people gravitate towards belief-systems because they have trouble defining themselves, for themselves. While I think that viewpoint is a bit shallow, I can see how it applies to very fanatical "Feminists" who have co-opted what is otherwise a basically "good" value for their own purposes.

Likewise, why label "social justice warrior" to anything that appears to have any opposing viewpoint to something you believe/want?

That's a good point. We often denigrate those we believe are in direct and forceful opposition to us. So, yeah, you're right - Applying "SJW" isn't always appropriate. But, it is a known expression, right? It has some sort of common meaning and that's probably because there's some truth, somewhere, in it. There are people that do fit the culturally common definition of "Social Justice Warrior." But, just like with "Feminism" if you define it as everyone who opposes you, it loses any specific value it may have had.

[Aye Capn]

... your arguments are that removed from reality.

Sentencing the innocent to castration without waiting for a trial because of the race and sex of the accused relative to accuser is exactly the sort of thing the Klan would do.

To the Duke Lacrosse Three themselves of course capability matters as much as intent, but to the rest of us the warning was quite dire: what happens when capability catches up?

What's so awful and terrible about feminism ...

Since Duke Lacrosse there has been one rape hoax, one show trial, one Feminist Kangaroo Court railroading after another. The lesson Feminists took from Duke Lacrosse wasn't "respect due process" but "control the process".

If evidence might put the verdict in doubt hide and declare inadmissible the evidence. If counsel might successfully defend a client deny the right to counsel. If the accuser's story doesn't add up declare lies to be proof of "trauma" of the "victim" and deny the accused the right to cross-examine.

And if at first you don't get a guilty verdict try, try again. The Feminists running the university certainly aren't going to run out of endowment money. They can afford to try the accused as many times as it takes to serve up some good ol' Social Justice.

But while Feminists learned "control the process, control the verdict" from Duke Lacrosse the rest of us were learning, too, the scales lifted from our eyes by bank records -- evidence, that tool of real justice which Social Justice holds in contempt -- which proved the innocence of the Duke Lacrosse Three all along. Verdicts without trials, trials without evidence, and self-righteous Feminists howling "listen and believe" ... believe me, we've been listening.

Nothing turns a Feminist into a Humanist quite like seeing her son railroaded by a Court of Social Justice. The rest of us have the prescience to see Feminism for what it is before the knock at the door.

I assume Josef Stalin is turning in bis grave after being connected to Kirsten Gillibrand ...

It is Lady Justice who is spinning.

"Someone in this courtroom is guilty, but it is not the accused."

Paul Nungesser is innocent.

[Observe]

So what's wrong with feminism as a concept? What's so awful and terrible about feminism - why is it so unjust that some posters here see it as "a bad thing"? Any rational explanations?

The feminist umbrella has gone too far sheltering women who are the abusers themselves. Nothing wrong with equal pay for equal work and addressing other such inequities. Hatred of men for the sake of it, is not acceptable.

Falsely accusing men of child abuse, rape and other violence is downright dangerous. Far to often, the courts are way to inclined to believe a woman's word against a man. This has to stop. Unfortunately, unwarranted and spiteful accusations against men, do tend to be lumped together under the feminist banner; in the eyes of many men and women too.

As with many things liberal, the reckless abandonment of fairness in pursuit of absolute control, frequently goes to the point of absurdity. Feminism in the current sense, is one example.

[fiksal]

So what's wrong with feminism as a concept? What's so awful and terrible about feminism - why is it so unjust that some posters here see it as "a bad thing"? Any rational explanations?

The feminist umbrella has gone too far sheltering women who are the abusers themselves. Nothing wrong with equal pay for equal work and addressing other such inequities. Hatred of men for the sake of it, is not acceptable.

Falsely accusing men of child abuse, rape and other violence is downright dangerous. Far to often, the courts are way to inclined to believe a woman's word against a man. This has to stop. Unfortunately, unwarranted and spiteful accusations against men, do tend to be lumped together under the feminist banner; in the eyes of many men and women too.

As with many things liberal, the reckless abandonment of fairness in pursuit of absolute control, frequently goes to the point of absurdity. Feminism in the current sense, is one example.

Yet, I say those abuses that you listed dont change the overall cause that needs to remain.

*feminism* is a good thing, *equality* is a good thing.

so as due process, laws, etc, etc. All the normal and peaceful things that a society should have.

[Observe]

*feminism* is a good thing, *equality* is a good thing.

Of course. To me, it comes down to fairness. Equality is a tricky word in this context, because there are obvious differences between men and women that sometimes need to be considered. Nothing wrong with feminism either, as long as hatred doesn't poison the cause.

[clakclak]

... your arguments are that removed from reality.

Sentencing the innocent to castration without waiting for a trial because of the race and sex of the accused relative to accuser is exactly the sort of thing the Klan would do.

[...]

Did anyone get castrated by feminists? Because people certainly got killed by the KKK.

[Chips]

Lets correct some people here...Feminism is trying to get equal treatment and consideration for the sexes. That's it. That's all it is. Nothing more, nothing less.

Do you have an issue with women being treated equally - no more discrimination in the work place for pay, or gender, or being sidelined for jobs because they're female, will have babies etc? Heck it's not really about women per se either, it's just equal treatment of the sexes in every facet of life.

Right now labelling "feminism" as a small minority group who want to prosecute a group of boys at one university for alleged rape (if that's correct?), but using that as a means to dismiss, belittle, ridicule and ignore feminism as a whole is... it's frankly embarrassing.

So, do you consider feminism, as a movement, as "bad"? As detrimental to society? As detrimental to you?

[Morkonan]

Lets correct some people here...Feminism is trying to get equal treatment and consideration for the sexes. That's it. That's all it is. Nothing more, nothing less.

That's a good thing. But, does it mean that someone is going to pass an ordinance that will fine me if I don't sit down to pee?

...Right now labelling "feminism" as a small minority group who want to prosecute a group of boys at one university for alleged rape (if that's correct?), but using that as a means to dismiss, belittle, ridicule and ignore feminism as a whole is... it's frankly embarrassing.

But, they're terrorists! And, their belief system must endorse terrorism, since they're vocally promoting it while doing the terrorism thing, right?

So, do you consider feminism, as a movement, as "bad"? As detrimental to society? As detrimental to you?

I had a "movement" yesterday. I probably won't need one, today. I usually only have a movement every other day. $@%$ I'm old...

I believe that everyone is equally valuable as a human being and deserves to be treated that way. I am against senseless discrimination against a person's sex, race, gender, nationality, religion, personal political beliefs, whether or not they where a fur suit on the weekends or drive a Volvo...

So, with all these wonderfully wholesome beliefs about the value of every single human being, regardless of insubstantial differences like "sex," am I a bad person if I cringe when someone walks into the room and proudly shouts "I am a feminist." What if they're a vegan? What if they're a cat person and don't like dogs?

Do we really need a "movement?" Aren't there a few very vocal people out there who say that they "represent" this movement going a bit too far sometimes? Why do they get angry when someone holds the door open for them when they're entering the grocery store? And, if I say "I think you're going a bit too far with this whole "feminism" thing," why am I then labeled as a heretic, an outcast, a baby-killer? Or... whatever. Maybe I'm just reacting to the most extreme "feminists" out there when I try to understand whatever this "movement" is about? Perhaps if I witnessed some sensible moderation and a bit of calm, I'd have a different opinion?

[Chips]

out there when I try to understand whatever this "movement" is about?

Get some ridicule to what are simple questions. Yes, I'm sure you understand...

[Morkonan]

out there when I try to understand whatever this "movement" is about?

Get some ridicule to what are simple questions. Yes, I'm sure you understand...

AH!

But, at what is that ridicule, even if it was present, which it really isn't, directed?

Is it directed at you? Or, are you only choosing to perceive that it is directed at you because you may very closely identify with the subject at hand?

For instance, the mention of Christianity and other religious beliefs tend to generate responses that are sometimes hostile, sometimes far too critical and guilty of making unfair and often false judgements. In truth, some of the backlash can seem almost militant, almost violent.

Since I am a Christian and, for obvious reasons, closely associate that belief system with my most valued "self" there's an instinctive reaction to such attacks that I must remain aware of. I can't allow myself to assume the person is speaking directly to "me" and "of me" in that very negative way. They're reacting to the word as they perceive it, with all of their own ideas and bias, and they're not reacting to "me" as a person. Even if they make assumptions based on their own interpretation of religion, they're still only reacting to a mental or emotional picture that is largely in their own mind and that isn't likely to have much, if anything, to do with me or my own beliefs.

So, if someone denigrates or makes light of an extreme view of "feminism" what should your healthy response be? What should your reaction be based on your goals in making that response? That is the sort of question I ask myself in those sorts of situations.

I'm parodying an extreme interpretation that is, nonetheless, often forced into the forefront of conversations about "feminism." That's the portrait in my head that has been painted by the most vocal proponents of the belief system.

Does feminism seek to apply itself to pickle-jars?

Seriously?

For instance, would a feminist consider it appropriate for another feminist to criticize the Pickle-Jar Manufacturer's Association for a perceived bias against women in favor of men who are much more able, it seems, to open said pickle-jars?

This isn't a joke, even though it's kinda funny... (A girlfriend once labeled me her "Pickle-Jar Opener" so that's why this comes to my mind. )

If you are a "feminist" would you consider it appropriate for another feminist, or yourself, to undertake a campaign against such a manufacturer's association until they complied with your requests?

Meanwhile, in Bogatah, there isn't a Battered Women's Shelter and no social services to help women who have been abused by their husbands. But, the possibility of equally accessible pickles could be realized with an adequately funded media campaign...

[Aye Capn]

Did anyone get castrated by feminists?

Give the Palestinians a few Panzer divisions and their anti-Semitic eliminationism would be indistinguishable from their most-infamous peers. I did mention the relationship between capability and intent; hopefully that relationship is now more clear.

However, the deeper issue here is the pretense that no real harm is done from Feminist rape hoaxes, kangaroo courts, and witch trials. To us non-Feminists the list of victims and the hell they've been put through is truly horrifying. Lynch mobs threatening castration aren't the end of the Feminist terror but just the beginning. The more seriously one takes the crime of rape the greater the injustice of branding for life the falsely accused.

"Listen and believe" creates its own perverse incentive, identical in fact to the Stalinist purges. Did Brett Kavanaugh really force a girl to kiss him when he was 17? Never mind the possibility of a politically-motivated lie: accusations are proof of guilt. Off with his head!

*feminism* is a good thing ...

I said we non-Feminists were horrified by rape hoaxes. What do Feminists think of rape hoaxes? They're horrified, too: because the exposure of rape hoaxes undermines their regime of presumed guilt by accusation. Yes, of course the biggest problem with rape hoaxes isn't the destruction of an innocent man's life in the present but a hypothetical victim facing cross-examination in a hypothetical future.

"I want to offer my deepest apologies: to Rolling Stone’s readers, to my Rolling Stone editors and colleagues, to the U.V.A. community, and to any victims of sexual assault who may feel fearful as a result of my article."
-Sabrina Erdely, Feminist

Who's missing from the list of "victims" of the Phi Kappa Psi rape hoax? To ask the question is to answer it. Feminism, being an ideology of hate, doesn't so much erase the victims of false accusation as not acknowledge them as fully human in the first place. To consider Feminism a "good thing" one would have to be a Feminist.

... equality ...

Ahh Equality, that noble Feminist ideal inherited from the Committee of Public Safety. They do speak of it highly.

[Mightysword]

Lets correct some people here...Feminism is trying to get equal treatment and consideration for the sexes. That's it. That's all it is. Nothing more, nothing less.

......

So, do you consider feminism, as a movement, as "bad"? As detrimental to society? As detrimental to you?

You're asking a pretty binary question over a non-binary issue. Is feminism as an idea is bad? No. But I can also ask you a series of question, and give me own answer on them as reference.

- Is religion bad? No.
- Is communism bad? No.
- Is nationalism bad? No.

...etc...

But ... do you judge a person merely by the words they said, or you will judge them through action and result? The aversion people show to these things nowadays are attributed not really to the text or philosophy behind them, but due to how they are practiced by the people who hold up their banners.

So, with all these wonderfully wholesome beliefs about the value of every single human being, regardless of insubstantial differences like "sex," am I a bad person if I cringe when someone walks into the room and proudly shouts "I am a feminist." What if they're a vegan? What if they're a cat person and don't like dogs?

Do we really need a "movement?"

As with many things liberal, the reckless abandonment of fairness in pursuit of absolute control, frequently goes to the point of absurdity. Feminism in the current sense, is one example.

If you put these two quotes together you'll get an idea of where I stand. As brought up in the Trump thread, I have an aversion to activism for essentially these reason. It's not limited to just feminism, but to a lot of other movement or -ism these days. Originally, these idea were created and nurture by a few individual by good will, with a pure and just intention. Overtime they gather supporters, given a name, and become a movement. The problem is, as people start subscribing to the idea, the zealotry nature of human of doing something better than what was done before warped these movements. They are no longer just promoting the idea, they are controlled by it, and start seeing those who are not agree as less desirable element. In short, in their pursuit of the idea, they pervert it.


So, according to you: feminism is trying to get equal treatment and consideration for the sexes. Ok fair enough, but does that means if I don't want to subscribe to feminism I am against equal treatment and consideration for all sexes? I'm asking this question because it was just slapped on me by another poster in the Trump thread not too long ago. The practice of guilt is one that modern activist love to employ after all. Let's take a look at some of the defining trait of communism shall we:


- Communism is a political and economic system in which the major productive resources and wealth is divided among citizens equally or according to individual need.
- The goal of communism is to create a classless society.
- Communism is not anti-individualism. However, it does say that decisions should be good for the population as a whole, instead of just being good for one or two people.


****** fantastic idea don't you agree? I mean, that's utopia material right there! But I (and I will assume for most of the world) hate communism with every fiber of my being. So ... does that mean I'm a self-serving person who are against all of those noble idea? What do you think?

And religion followed the same path. Most modern religions had their root among the poor and suffered, something created to provide hope and succor to those who needed it. But as they gain followers and influence, organized-religions become a tool of power, a power used for control which result in some people now had growth an aversion to anything religious. Sit down and think for a bit, you'll be surprise how much of a parallel you can see between a movement and religion from how they were created, to how they were nurtured and run.


What I'm saying is I doubt the people who are arguing with you here strictly are against feminism as an idea, but we had seen enough of its malpractice that it doesn't quite instill a vote of confidence.

[fiksal]

*feminism* is a good thing ...

I said we non-Feminists were horrified by rape hoaxes. What do Feminists think of rape hoaxes? They're horrified, too: because the exposure of rape hoaxes undermines their regime of presumed guilt by accusation. Yes, of course the biggest problem with rape hoaxes isn't the destruction of an innocent man's life in the present but a hypothetical victim facing cross-examination in a hypothetical future.

Dont know and quite possibly dont care what others think in your example. But we can keep it simple, crime is bad and deserves varying degrees of outrage.

I see that as no reason for me not to apply for a feminism membership.

Next?

Feminism, being an ideology of hate

And to the dictionary we go!

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism

Definition of feminism
1 : the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes
2 : organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

Your definition is a bit off the mark.

Maybe you should start your own dictionary

To consider Feminism a "good thing" one would have to be a Feminist.

I have no problem with that.

... equality ...

Ahh Equality, that noble Feminist ideal inherited from the Committee of Public Safety. They do speak of it highly.

What is that the reference to?

Not sure "equality" has to be a strictly feminist idea, even it is as part of the definition. But it itself is a good parallel concept.

I mean, that's utopia material right there! But I (and I will assume for most of the world) hate communism with every fiber of my being. So ... does that mean I'm a self-serving person who are against all of those noble idea? What do you think?

Not to sidetrack this too far; so the obvious utopia is obious.

But why is that do you actually hate communism with every fiber?

I'll need to think hard about what I hate with my "every fiber" but communism is not on that list, since it's kind of hard to hate something that I never experienced, never happened or no-one in my family experienced either. (Just to be clear I am Russian)