Mac vs PC

[mrbadger]

I think if Apple took one of their older laptop designs then released it at a competetive price it would still outperform many lower end newer laptops.

Why isn't the old Macbook Air on sale for £300 now? They would sell like hotcakes. I'd buy on today.

This idea that faster chips and more rams == beter machine doen't work for laptops. Yes for some laptops it does. But it depends what you use it for. If like me you want a fast, light machine with a long battery life (and you can afford it) then a macbook of whatever flavour is good.

That last part is the killer. My current macbook cost my £2,500. It was worth it, but I could have got two Windows laptops that were almost as good for less than that, but I wouldn't have been as happy with them, I've long since got fed up with Windows Laptops. I don't trust the quality.

That's the thing though, I didn't want almost as good. I wanted the luxury item, and it is a luxury item. One which I note is appearing in front of more and more students now. Those that don't have them usually don't because they can't afford them, not because they don't want them.

I understand the Microsoft Tablet is getting pretty good too, but I don't like the look of it, and I don't like touchscreen laptops. Some of my students use them and say good things about them.

[Chips]

You're pretty consistent and defensive of Apple there

The main difference between Apple and non Apple buyers is summed up perfectly in what you said though.

My current macbook cost my £2,500. It was worth it.

Never, in a million years, would I ever claim a £2500 laptop was "worth it" if there are alternatives available. I'd be rating that around £400 per year for use, and what it'd have over a £500 laptop (performance wise, usability) is never, ever, going to equate to £2000 to me. I'd go without the laptop (for personal use, if it's work use, work should supply the laptop for me!).

I have a work laptop, and a personal one. All over again I'd not even bother buying my £500 personal one as I don't get enough "real" use out of it.

As for working, unless I have to be on the go (and I assume as a lecturer you'll take that laptop to your lectures and plug it in - so there's an entirely different requirement for you, so may drive what is worth what), then i'll always prefer a desktop - mainly due to the keyboard.

At work I do use a laptop, but it's plugged into multi-display and a mouse and a keyboard (so the laptop is actually turned on, but closed). If I had to work on the laptop as a laptop... I'd quit. It's just NOT comfortable or useable enough; I'd get RSI for sure as the hand positions are terrible on laptop keyboards, the monitor position is terrible for your posture, and it's frankly garbage to work on They could actually give us a high end gigabyte brix, the only difference is as I move the brix would power down and require powering back up again. You can get laptop stands to alleviate the display issue, but that requires a keyboard - and I'd rather have 2x24" display on the desk than a tiny 15" propped up infront of me.

I won't ever work full time on a laptop. It's a way to ruin yourself.

Spend the £1700 difference on the highest quality chair possible for you to sit in, the best keyboard and monitor work area - then plug your laptop in. Far better money spent for your welfare.

Work thankfully understands this. We have incredible chairs that cost > £1000 each and they're, without doubt, the most comfortable things ever sat on. You can sit in them all day, with excellent support and adjustability. Screw laptop quality, good work conditions and good life is about your workspace - not the machine you are just tapping on.

[mrbadger]

You're pretty consistent and defensive of Apple there

The main difference between Apple and non Apple buyers is summed up perfectly in what you said though.

My current macbook cost my £2,500. It was worth it.

Never, in a million years, would I ever claim a £2500 laptop was "worth it" if there are alternatives available. I'd be rating that around £400 per year for use, and what it'd have over a £500 laptop (performance wise, usability) is never, ever, going to equate to £2000 to me. I'd go without the laptop (for personal use, if it's work use, work should supply the laptop for me!).

I have a work laptop, and a personal one. All over again I'd not even bother buying my £500 personal one as I don't get enough "real" use out of it.

My University spent £2600 on an Alienware Laptop for me, and I have never owned such an awful peice of garbage. The keyboard is terrible, the keypad is not very responsive. The entire thing melted when the cooling failed and everything except the keyboard and screen was replaced. I don't use it myself now, it's my reserve gaming machine for guests.

I've never spent less on £1500 on a personal laptop (pre Apple), except for a breif attempt at owning a chromebook. You get what you pay for, and I don't want to buy a new machine every few years. I want to buy a machine and use it for at least five to eight years before I even think about replacing it. Before switching to Apple I was constantly frustrated by poor quality hardware and terrible battery lifespans.

In the case of this machine that means I expect my investment to mean £300 - £500 a year, about the same as buying a cheap laptop every two years. Only I haven't, I've got a very good laptop that will last. Already has lasted nearly a year, and with no deterioration in battery lifespan too.

[Morkonan]

The most expensive laptop I ever bought was "worth it." (Good quality laptop designed for multimedia, graphics, sound, etc..) I don't remember, now, how much I paid for it, but I didn't think it was expensive at the time. (I'd think that the "ceiling" of "too expensive" would be around $1,800 or so.)

I will pay for quality and performance, but only just so much... I won't pay for a "name."

Thought: Wouldn't it be nice if we could built laptops from component parts? I know many manufacturers let you specify components, but it'd be nice to be able to build them from "off the shelf" parts. Unfortunately, there aren't any dimension standards for many intrinsic components as laptops compete on size, thinform, cooling, battery life, screens and screen formats, etc... (AND KEYBOARDS! )

[mrbadger]

You mean if we could build Laptops the way I build my computers?

I didnt buy my laptop because it vwas Apple. If I thought that way I'd own an Apple desktop too, and I think those, while they look nice, dont suit my needs.

I bought it because Apple are the only company with a consistant build quality record.

Lots of people throw thier hands up at the mere mention of Apple, but they didn't become such a big company by chance.

I keep using the word Luxury when I refer to them, and that's deliberate, they do produce luxury goods, not cheap machines. But unlike other companies I've dealt with they provide great service along with those expensive products.

[Chips]

My University spent £2600 on an Alienware Laptop for me, and I have never owned such an awful peice of garbage. The keyboard is terrible, the keypad is not very responsive.

I'd have flat out refused them to spend money on such a thing; horrific waste of cash.

As said, I have to work with a laptop but it isn't used as a laptop. It is the equivalent of a portable tower case... that's it. If I ever work on the laptop itself, I'm out.

Keyboard + Mouse + Monitors + Chair - i plug the laptop into the first 3 and sit in the 4th. All adjusted, correct, comfortable. The laptop just means I can move to a different (identical) desk in various buildings/locations, but always the same. Cannot do 8 hour days on a laptop, not without injury.

Laptops are a compromise on everything to fill the need for "computing on the go". I maintain that they're unnecessary for some, and great marketing to get people to spend huge sums to buy something with marginal improvements over others. I'd wager most people who believe they need one... don't. Then again, I say the same about mobile phones and the "I can't live without..." Doesn't mean people don't attach value to it though, as said, you find it reasonable for your justifications. I just find it plain nuts

But - I am one of *those* people who won't ever work outside of work hours. I will never work at a location that's not set up and suitable (decent chair/monitors/keyboard/mouse - can plug laptop into those, that's perfectly acceptable, but I won't sit at a laptop - you're hunched with bad posture and the typing position is awful). I won't compromise and if they want me to, employ someone else.

[mrbadger]

I have a desktop machine, but the nature of my work means I need to be able to work where I can.

Mostly that's in the Starbucks in our Faculty. Or in could be in any one of our lecture rooms, or a server room, or my sitting room, or kitchen. Or even in my office, where I have a purpose built electric raising desk that I hardly ever get to use.

Mobility is the name of the game. Yes the Alienware was a huge mistake. In all respects but one, it got me a free guest gaming rig.

So instead I go for lightness, good screen, keyboard and touchpad, and long battery life. With the first and last points being the most critical, but all of them being important.

How powerful the machine is, how much storage or ram it has doesn't really come into it, so long as it has enough to load the programs I want to use, which all Macbooks do.

[pjknibbs]

Keyboard + Mouse + Monitors + Chair - i plug the laptop into the first 3 and sit in the 4th.

Do you do that as a bunch of separate ports, or as a single docking station? You should probably consider the latter if you're not doing that, it makes things a whole lot simpler since you generally only have to plug one USB3.0 port in and you get everything else, including the external monitor.

[Chips]

Ah yes, it is a docking station. Power cable bundle of power + hdmi + singular USB. Plug those in, you've got the lot. You can plug in network or use wifi.

Obviously the office is set up for this working environment, whereas Starbucks is almost certainly not But I doubt the majority of Mr B's day is spent in Starbucks, so the real laptop use, is his constant movement. Nowt wrong with that if it's all necessary, there are plenty of work environments where laptop is a must (can't lug stuff up a big mast for example!). Not met many who really have that requirement, but that's probably because ... workplace friends!

Also, i'd never "work" in Starbucks. Hate backseat porn watchers, they're so judgemental

[Hank001]

I can't say I ever owned one, however I have Dell OMS disks for Win XP Pro in 32Bit and 64 bit that I use to run on Virtual Machines because I have some software important to my graphics work that doesn't work on Win7 or higher. Dell put out discs with all the service packs and updates included. So I'm in favor of Dell in that regard.

As for their hardware I heard good things from heir users and bad things about HP's and had terrible problems with Toshiba Satellite laptops (Two of them in sequence died just as the warranty did).

[Retiredman]

Been a PC fan over apple since 1984. Usually I build my own and thus repair it. Can't do that with an apple. They have locked in everything and I got the impression was.. It's my way or the highway from Jobs influence.
Woz was more of the open system guy and they removed him...
How many PC builders are there.. alot more companies building PC's than
Apples. (Oh.. only one.. Apple itself)
So that leaves many option to configure they way you want you PC.
And that true today.

I recently priced a new system (I build from parts) and
It can cost quite a bit.
Non SLI 18 core hyperthreader, 128 GB ram 1000 watt PS
SSD and a couple of HD's plus all the other support stuff ran around
8500 dollars.. (I wouldn't build one that expensive unless I hit the lottery)
But did it as a mental exercise. You can build one or modify a prebuilt desktop for around 3K. and have a decent machine. That is about the price back in the 80's for the newest machines.
So what does a new Apple machine costs today? (the full mico desktop
not an ibook..)

[Hank001]

Hurray for you fellow builder! (And retiree too)

Though it has it's drawbacks. Like I'll ask you; Do case makers shapen those drive racks to razor edges on purpose? Perhaps in
cahoots with band-aid makers? I've ran a wire brush over them
and STILL the place I miss nicks me good!

[pjknibbs]

You need to spending a bit more money on your cases, then...cheap ones appear to be made out of razor blades and old tin cans, decent ones most definitely shouldn't be causing you any cuts. Certainly the last couple of builds I've done haven't involved a single nick or nasty cut.

[Hank001]

Unfortunately I usually don't have a say on what case gets chosen.
When I do it's from manufactures who don't strop the edges to keen shapness. Though I've found some of the pricier ones look great on the outside but are said "tin cans and razor blades" on the inside.

However, whatever Newegg or Amazon, (etc) has on sale at the moment? 10 to one odds the inside is a good reason for a tetanus booster!

[mrbadger]

But I doubt the majority of Mr B's day is spent in Starbucks

When I'm in the faculty building that is exactly where I spend most of my day (outside of lectures), because students aren't allowed on the staff floor, and most of my work involves directly interacting with students. Our rules literally force me to not use my office if I am to do my job properly.

But I don't buy more than one coffee, because it's awful. I take my own in a flask, usually I only have that, when I'm forced to I specify something that vaguely approximates a drinkable coffee, but is nowhere near nice.

[Hank001]

Tell them Professor! I consider myself a "coffee snob" and have a source in Jamaca. Two words: Blue Mountain. Period.

As for PC vs MAC. I look at the debate as static vs dymanic.

We seem to have no arguement that with Apple what you buy is what you get and in X years it's obsolete and you buy another.

That should settle debate. However on the other side of PC coin is pehaps too much change at too fast a pace. Interesting considering second looks given now to MS and DR DOS in some programming circles. Linux is on the rise and we might see a day when stand alone computing makes a comeback what with the security and privacy issues the internet is rife with. Apple along with Android might become the internet platform of the future, but I forsee PC and program specific computers also in that future.

So at some time this debate might be not Apples vs PCs, but apples vs oranges.

[mrbadger]

I have yet to try blue mountain. I'd like to, but even for me it's too expensive given my rate of coffee drinking. It might be cheaper in the US, but in the UK it costs a fortune. £25 for 125 grammes.

I get through a kilo of Ethiopian Yirgacheffe a month, which is £28 for a kilo, and so very nice.

Plus I like to have several varieties on hand when I offer guests a pourover, of which I can offer all the main types apart from Melita, because I don't like that one.

Chemex is my favorite pourover method, and I find Kenyan Peaberry suits it rather well.

It's no bloody wonder I like Macs, is it...

I'm a goddam hipster.

I'm so ashamed

[Hank001]

Actually it's having a friend who retired in Jamaca. He gets the beans at prices that are compared to regular coffee on the selves and mails it to me when he can. (It's seasonal). The same only quicker to get Hawaiian coffee which (outside of what they call blends) is almost as good as Jamacan beans. I'm drinking pure Hawaiian at this moment. Starbucks? Swill. Over priced bulk snd some cut with Robustus. Kenyan AA, Sumatran and Peruvian coffee's are overrated and some taste like they were squeezed through sweat socks.

(And anything that passes though civit cats I'll take a pass on.)

As for your computer preferences, it's what YOU use a computer for.
In my forte Apple has a corner on photographics and 2D graphics applications. 3D graphics needs a PC. And now the openings in game design are moving to the demand in Android/Unity.

I was saying that I think things are going to shake down to program specific platforms.

Edit: Just announced on morning news Intel is going to start making the processors for Apple. So in the future there might be little difference between Mac & PC except the OS.

[mrbadger]

The processor is just one component of a computer, and not usually the one I use to base my purchases on

[Hank001]

Agreed. Though Intel making the chips for Apple might lead to the move towards a homology between Mac and PC. If the guts end up similar then it comes down to the OS you prefer. Or what OS ypu needed to do something specific with the platform. I question what this might mean for AMD. Will the lose their nitch in the PC market or
will it open up greater a demand?