Star Trek Discovery

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Antilogic
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Post by Antilogic » Thu, 1. Feb 18, 22:22

Ketraar wrote:MY question is, how do you define this as Star Trek? It looks and feels nothing like it.

The whole alternative universe trope again and executed so bad it hurts. One can hear the writers inserting all the Deus Ex Machina into the plot its not even funny. TNG was cheesy sure, but it was at least fun. This is a bland take at a rich universe and sorry but in 2018 I expect more. Looking forward for The Expanse for proper Sci-Fi and hope they dont pull a Dark Matter.

MFG

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Damn..... :(

Really going to have watch this now and make up my own mind.

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Post by Redvers Ganderpoke » Fri, 2. Feb 18, 13:22

I can't really articulate how I feel about this programme except that it is very negative.
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Post by Antilogic » Fri, 2. Feb 18, 16:08

http://botnik.org/content/tng/

This would be very watchable.

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Post by mrbadger » Fri, 2. Feb 18, 19:30

It would be much easier to discuss Discovery if it were easier for people to watch it. But it's locked behind a paywall.

Not I admit a very tall one, and I do prefer the Netflix model to Timeslot locked TV. But I'm unwilling to renew my membership for a while yet.

Netflix is seriously upping its game these days with original content. They need more Science Fiction original content to attract me long term.

If they got the rights to the upcoming Mega City One series then I'd definitely get a membership. That's a few years from filming yet though.
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Ketraar
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Post by Ketraar » Fri, 2. Feb 18, 19:40

mrbadger wrote:It would be much easier to discuss Discovery if it were easier for people to watch it. But it's locked behind a paywall.
Welel here Netflix you can buy at a montly base, so if one month there is nothing of worth you can just "disable" it and "re-activate" at a later date as you see fit.

My problem with Destiny is that its not interesting. The plot is forced and has no meaning or impact whatsoever. Twists and turns for the sake of it, lots of Fi and very little Sci for my taste, especially the overused "lets replace this dude with an exact copy but change just a few things that are relevant to the plot and ignore anything else."

I wont rant more as it would require major spoilers, but if you crave for Sci-fi anything, might as well watch it, its not like there is much choice.

MFG

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Post by Jericho » Mon, 5. Feb 18, 12:07

Ketraar wrote:MY question is, how do you define this as Star Trek? It looks and feels nothing like it.
I haven't seen Discovery so I can't comment. But Shatner's Trek is nothing like Deep Space 9... But then I think a lot of people will say that DS9 isn't really 'trek' either...

DS9 is my favorite too, but they killed the Mirror Universe with overuse... At least they didn't have to fight off a borg invasion every season.

While I have no doubt that it was due to make-up reuse, I loved the similarities between Tosk and the Jem'Hadar (their makeup, their stamina/strength, their ability to 'shroud'/cloak, their lack of sleep, their lack of needing to 'eat').

But there was never any followup or questions raised by O'Brien. Where they both created by the Dominion? Did the Dominion created the Jem'Hadar from the Tosk species (Like the Vorta were created from the tree-dwelling species?)
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Post by Kapakio » Mon, 5. Feb 18, 12:47

Ketraar wrote:MY question is, how do you define this as Star Trek? It looks and feels nothing like it.

The whole alternative universe trope again and executed so bad it hurts. One can hear the writers inserting all the Deus Ex Machina into the plot its not even funny. TNG was cheesy sure, but it was at least fun. This is a bland take at a rich universe and sorry but in 2018 I expect more. Looking forward for The Expanse for proper Sci-Fi and hope they dont pull a Dark Matter.

MFG

Ketraar
I have to confess that I really liked the series. Yes, I agree, it doesn't feel like Star Trek at all, but I enjoyed the story and the twist. And I really did not feel a lot of Deux ex Machina as you did.

Of course, once you accept the concept of a "spore drive" then anything can happen

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Post by clakclak » Mon, 5. Feb 18, 13:59

mrbadger wrote:[...]They need more Science Fiction original content to attract me long term.[...]
They have "Altered Carbon" in the line. If the show is anything like the book than it will be brilliant. However I hope they don't try to replicate the over the top violence of the book. Some things work well in books, but not in movies/TV shows. (I am also sad to see that they outright left out one of the most important and coolest characters from the book.)

I must say that so far I am pretty happy with this new emergence of the cyberpunk genre. Fans like me have really been blessed lately. Ghost in the Shell, Blade Runner, Ready Player One, Altered Carbon and the new Deus Ex, not evening mentioning all the new books coming out.

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Post by Ketraar » Mon, 5. Feb 18, 17:20

Kapakio wrote: And I really did not feel a lot of Deux ex Machina as you did.

Of course, once you accept the concept of a "spore drive" then anything can happen
The spore-drive is a "normal" Trek thingamajig that does things pulled from a hat (to be PG13), but that is not a problem per se, as said before, its a common occurrence in Trek stuff. My issue is with the coincidences that are tailored to fit the narrative. Spoilers ahead
Spoiler
Show
How high are the odds that the right people are about at the exact time and spot in the universe for the whole mirror shenanigans to work? You got to Deus Ex the crap out of it for it to "work". Worst of al is the boring half season one had to endure to get some pay-off. Also where are the Klingon at?
Its not the worst Sci-fi by any means, its just mediocre, which in itself is a bad thing imho, we can demand better and we should.

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Post by Kapakio » Mon, 5. Feb 18, 19:33

Ketraar wrote:Some spoilers
Well, to be completely fair
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The whole concept of parallel universes with different "flavors" of the same people is silly enough. So, if you accept that, then there's no issue that they are also in the same part of the universe at any given moment. Maybe there's some kind of "connection" between the two universes through the spore network
So, I think the plot is consistent with itself. Agree, not the best sci fi, but I would not call it mediocre.

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Post by Ketraar » Mon, 5. Feb 18, 20:13

Kapakio wrote:Well, to be completely fair
Spoiler
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Well no, its not just the premise of them being versions of themselves, but that they are the EXACT versions NEEDED for this plot. Also it bothers me that they mirror just the things they need to work for the plot, so a person has a different personality altogether, but they still have the EXACT same carrier path? And that is true to ALL characters involved in this plot? Gimme a break!
This is why I think its mediocre it does not try to be subtle at all. Also again whats with the Klingon? Do they even matter at all? Dont think so and am not talking about their awful look I could get past that if they had any resemblance of character and not just be cartoon characters.

MFG

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Post by Kapakio » Tue, 6. Feb 18, 02:11

Ketraar wrote: This is why I think its mediocre
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So, you are ok that in the parallel universe there's another version of yourself but you are not Ok that both have the same profession? Where do you draw the line of plausible?

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Post by Ketraar » Tue, 6. Feb 18, 02:42

I never said I was OK with it, in fact I'm pretty sure I said I disliked the whole mirror thingy and its a overused trope, but more so its a badly executed one in this series.

Having said that I can give it a pass, as its Star Trek and it often does use these cheese tropes once they run out of ideas on how to make space exploration entertaining. What I cannot give it a pass is inconsistent and incoherent story telling.

I can list at least 3 sub-plots that are completely irrelevant and just dragged the show for no reason instead of making fun Trek stuff like meet odd species and worlds. Instead we have to endure inconsistent characters that act one way in one occasion to then act completely different in the next (and they are not in the mirror thingy). Its just poor writing, if it did not have the name Star Trek, none of us would be watching this show after episode 3 (being really generous here).

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Post by Observe » Tue, 6. Feb 18, 03:09

clakclak wrote:They have "Altered Carbon" in the line. If the show is anything like the book than it will be brilliant. However I hope they don't try to replicate the over the top violence of the book.
I watched Altered Carbon through episode 5 (of 10) and then I quit. The series has good acting, production, writing etc., but the pornography turned me off. I don't need to see people having sex every five minutes. When they aren't having sex, they are parading around naked - interspersed with the rest of the story. An otherwise watchable series has been thrown into the gutter imo.

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Post by burger1 » Tue, 6. Feb 18, 04:10

Observe wrote: I don't need to see people having sex every five minutes. When they aren't having sex, they are parading around naked - interspersed with the rest of the story. An otherwise watchable series has been thrown into the gutter imo.
I ended up not watching all of Penny Dreadful in part because of the constant sex/nudity. It also got very dark during bits of the story. I'd rather have something you can watch with other adults without being embarrassed. It seems to be a trend on netflix though.

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