Brexit

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Chips
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Re: Brexit

Post by Chips » Mon, 3. Feb 20, 21:22

CBJ wrote:
Mon, 3. Feb 20, 19:09
fiksal wrote:
Mon, 3. Feb 20, 18:41
Maybe a dumb question, but the trade, that was previously under a trade agreement, cant happen when it's gone, right?
For example, say Canada and US have agreement about milk and that agreement were to go away, I dont think one can sell milk anymore.
You can trade, but the trade will be subject to WTO standard tariffs. Whether anyone wants to buy your stuff once those tariffs have been applied (or whether you want to sell them if you have to absorb the cost of those tariffs so that people will still buy them) is another matter.
But that's not true...

https://trade-knowledge.net/commentary/ ... hat-means/

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Re: Brexit

Post by jlehtone » Mon, 3. Feb 20, 22:14

Chips wrote:
But that's not true ...
Does WTO apply to Trump's tantrums too?

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Re: Brexit

Post by CBJ » Tue, 4. Feb 20, 00:09

Chips wrote:
Mon, 3. Feb 20, 21:22
But that's not true...
Sorry, which bit isn't true? That's a lengthy article but I'm not sure where it contradicts what I said.

Edit: Ah, now I see what you mean. I should have said WTO terms not tariffs; sorry about that. The effect is generally pretty much the same, though.

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Chips
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Re: Brexit

Post by Chips » Tue, 4. Feb 20, 22:25

CBJ wrote:
Tue, 4. Feb 20, 00:09
Chips wrote:
Mon, 3. Feb 20, 21:22
But that's not true...
Sorry, which bit isn't true? That's a lengthy article but I'm not sure where it contradicts what I said.

Edit: Ah, now I see what you mean. I should have said WTO terms not tariffs; sorry about that. The effect is generally pretty much the same, though.
Must admit, read it differently this time round. First time I read it as we were obliged to set our tariffs on goods exported to us as decided by WTO terms. Reading it again, you're talking about having to pay the tariffs other countries have set to export to them - something we know in advance, it's already set. Probably read it wrongly as previous posts by others were odd claims that mean I started seeing everything framed the wrong way.

It must be quite interesting for deciding what tariff rates we want to set for ourselves - protectionist in some ways, or possible high to provide incentive to deal with us to get a better trade for an otherwise - all weighed up with the cost in doing so to ourselves in the short term. By interesting, I mean headache.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Axeface » Sun, 9. Feb 20, 02:11

Point of thought as I was talking to my family about this today and im drunk, and i've long had this conspiracy theory. My family are all outwardly hostile to Brexit (the boomer pretends to be) for the record, but I really think this is likely...
Is it possible Brexit has been orchestrated in order to protect Britain from the possible impending migrant crisis due to climate change? Out of Europe Britain would be able to lock down borders in the event of mass migration. The British government is old, experienced and think longterm.
Brexit could even protect Europe in the longterm... could Brexit give Europe impetous to strengthen or harden their borders too? (the anti-immigration sentiment that fuels it may soften the left into submission) *puts on tin foil hat*

Thoughts?

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Re: Brexit

Post by fiksal » Sun, 9. Feb 20, 06:58

Axeface wrote:
Sun, 9. Feb 20, 02:11
Is it possible Brexit has been orchestrated in order to protect Britain from the possible impending migrant crisis due to climate change
That depends on which way the climate change swings. In the event that a Gulf Stream is disrupted on the way to Europe, it's possible there'll be an age of unpleasant winters there, and loss of farming.
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Re: Brexit

Post by pjknibbs » Sun, 9. Feb 20, 08:40

In order for this to be a conspiracy then the government would have had to have rigged the results of the referendum--and that then runs into the usual conspiracy theory problem, you're expecting literally thousands of people, many of them minimum wage government workers, to keep quiet about it.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Alan Phipps » Sun, 9. Feb 20, 11:11

"The British government is old, experienced and think longterm." We in the UK would dearly like to think that, but in practice the thinking there is often more centred on re-election matters and maintaining the status quo.

I suspect that the Brexit referendum result was quite unexpected by those who called it in the first place; that referendum was more intended to make the whole topic go away for a while (much as with Scottish Independence). My evidence would be the total lack of any planning for or thinking through a leave result. That's my (more credible) conspiracy theory anyway. :D
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Re: Brexit

Post by OneOfMany » Sun, 9. Feb 20, 12:56

Brexit was just a skirmish, the real war starts now as the Brits fight for their borders both on land and sea. Once they ditch the common fisheries policy and ban all trawlers from other countries from poaching fish stocks, the Brits can sell their fish at better prices and restart their once great fishing industries. Yeah right, you're more likely to see foreign fishing fleets escorted by naval vessels to ensure they can still plunder the British coast.

As for the mass migration of people, I've never understood why someone who is fleeing persecution from the Sudan, can cross 11 contries of which 5 of them are Christian based, to then try and hide in the back of a lorry in France to get to Britain before asking for asylum?

I would like to think that the Brits can take back control and do all they can to discourage the mass imigration they now face. However as their main border is controlled by the French at that end of the tunnel, I fear an open door policy will be enacted now that they have left the eu.

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Re: Brexit

Post by fiksal » Wed, 12. Feb 20, 15:54

OneOfMany wrote:
Sun, 9. Feb 20, 12:56
can cross 11 contries of which 5 of them are Christian based
All the more reasons to skip them! :D
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Chips
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Re: Brexit

Post by Chips » Wed, 12. Feb 20, 22:43

OneOfMany wrote:
Sun, 9. Feb 20, 12:56
I would like to think that the Brits can take back control and do all they can to discourage the mass imigration they now face. However as their main border is controlled by the French at that end of the tunnel, I fear an open door policy will be enacted now that they have left the eu.
A few questions:

1) How long is that border at the tunnel?
2) How many migrants come through said tunnel? (no seriously, please provide some actual data).
3) How many migrants is the UK forced by EU legislation to admit per year.
4) How many migrants are admitted from outside the EU (ones we can say "No thank you" to if we wish? Also, why don't we?) and if migration is a problem, why don't we stop them?
5) Just how many illegal migrants do we get? And how do they enter the country (as in, do they arrive illegally in the first place or arrive legally and then abscond). Also, what mode of transportation?

Some links to help you:

Figures for EU vs Non EU migration (as in what we can't vs can control).
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... bruary2019

Net migration (because we need to know how many leave as well as arrive, to get a real figure for what we could control vs couldn't).
https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statis ... statistics

Migrant Crisis with numbers per country taken in for the EU and their origin for the "Migrant crisis"... the UK is absolutely SWAMPED. A wonder we even manage to survive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_migrant_crisis

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/key-to ... mmigration
Contains some information about numbers and difficulties with regards to illegal immigration.


But bottom line - in what way does leaving the EU suddenly mean we can stop illegal immigrants into the UK? It's not just a question from myself, I'm pretty sure the Government would be interested to know because... the problem has always been that the EU stops us from "manning the border".Additionally, how the 60k net EU migration is suddenly going to save us when we freely admit the net 220k migration from the rest of the world. Per year. By choice.

Honestly...

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Re: Brexit

Post by pjknibbs » Thu, 13. Feb 20, 08:45

Have to say, I'm a little puzzled about the tunnel thing myself. It's a train tunnel--nobody is going to actually walk through all 20+ miles of the thing to reach the UK without getting spotted, and hiding directly aboard the trains is impractical, so the only way anyone gets in through that route is, IMHO, by hiding in a lorry. And we've already seen from those corpses being found in the lorry a few weeks ago that you don't actually need to come through the tunnel to take that route.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Bishop149 » Wed, 19. Feb 20, 14:06

Oooo lets play a game! Who here is considered valuable enough to be allowed into the U.K.
I qualify, but about half my point come from having a PhD.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Alan Phipps » Wed, 19. Feb 20, 16:50

Hmm. If that system were also applied to current British residents being allowed to stay here, then how many would be legally left afterwards? :gruebel:
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Re: Brexit

Post by pjknibbs » Wed, 19. Feb 20, 17:05

Not me--I get 60. (I did train as an electrical engineer, which is one of the shortage jobs apparently, but I haven't actually done anything relating to that in 25 years).

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Re: Brexit

Post by felter » Wed, 19. Feb 20, 17:06

pjknibbs wrote:
Thu, 13. Feb 20, 08:45
Have to say, I'm a little puzzled about the tunnel thing myself. It's a train tunnel--nobody is going to actually walk through all 20+ miles of the thing to reach the UK without getting spotted, and hiding directly aboard the trains is impractical,
How do you know no one has not managed to walk through the tunnel without being spotted. Admittedly there have been more than a few that have been spotted, meaning people have tried it. There is actually no way of knowing if anyone has managed to get through without being spotted, as you have to spot them to know they are there and made the attempt. If one manages to get through without being spotted, then no one will even know that they were ever there as they would never have been spotted. We can only surmise that no one has made it through without being spotted due to the fact that others have been spotted but that doesn't mean that they haven't been able to do it without being spotted. :wink: :wink:
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Re: Brexit

Post by red assassin » Wed, 19. Feb 20, 18:40

I get 90 by the looks of it. Yay for working in tech?
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Re: Brexit

Post by Vertigo 7 » Wed, 19. Feb 20, 20:03

felter wrote:
Wed, 19. Feb 20, 17:06
pjknibbs wrote:
Thu, 13. Feb 20, 08:45
Have to say, I'm a little puzzled about the tunnel thing myself. It's a train tunnel--nobody is going to actually walk through all 20+ miles of the thing to reach the UK without getting spotted, and hiding directly aboard the trains is impractical,
How do you know no one has not managed to walk through the tunnel without being spotted. Admittedly there have been more than a few that have been spotted, meaning people have tried it. There is actually no way of knowing if anyone has managed to get through without being spotted, as you have to spot them to know they are there and made the attempt. If one manages to get through without being spotted, then no one will even know that they were ever there as they would never have been spotted. We can only surmise that no one has made it through without being spotted due to the fact that others have been spotted but that doesn't mean that they haven't been able to do it without being spotted. :wink: :wink:
I'm not familiar with this tunnel off hand but, I would have to imagine, in the current day in age of terrorist threats that there are cameras monitoring it 24/7, ya?
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Re: Brexit

Post by RegisterMe » Wed, 19. Feb 20, 20:52

Well, there have actually been a few instances of people getting through, but it's not a common occurrence and I don't think it's happened for some time.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Alan Phipps » Wed, 19. Feb 20, 20:58

I really don't see what Channel Tunnel security has to do with the Brexit debate. Pretty much the same level of British national security precautions and measures against threat and unsanctioned or illegal entry would have to continue whether the UK is in or out of the EU. Think of airport level security for unscheduled access/departure for the Tunnel and you probably won't be too far off.
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