Book Thread

[Hank001]

Mork: Like your Avatar. Met Bakshi back in day.

I read the Honor Harrington series by David Weber.

I'm retired USAF, have contributed through fan/technical group BuNine.

I write Sci Fi myself under a pen name, have had stories published.
Wrote column, articles for Polyhedron the magazine for the RPGA back in the mid-late 80's when writer Gene Rabi was editor. Did cartoons for them also. So my creds go into fantasy as well.

Which is why I follow Weber's fantasy series(s) as well.

Ps... Have First Edition Dune hardcover (the first release abridged in red hardcover, rarest.) Looking for dustcover. Don't have to say we'll dicker.

Also have rare edition Children Of Dune in "British English" (Checked both English versions. Sentence structure different. Much less comma usage.) Liked "Brit" better. Sorry company quit practice because of poor sales in UK.

[Morkonan]

Bakshi is an often overlooked genius.

Loved Polyhedron and all the other pubs like Dragon, White Dwarf, Dungeon, etc.. They were great mags. (IIRC, the entire library of Dragon is now online.)

On Honorverse - I love the original-ish series. But, then it became a somewhat overloaded franchise. I understand it, but I just couldn't read it anymore. As I read through it, it started to seem a bit formulaic. There could have been some interesting stories later in the series and I just didn't get that far. (The same goes for Safehold, at least for me.) Strangely enough, one of my favorite Weber stories is "Out of the Dark." A very nice change of pace and simply "a good story, well told."

I loved Dune. Then I read the next book... then the next... then something finally snapped and I couldn't turn any more pages. Great worldbuilding/universebuilding and some really wonderful ideas, but I started to feel like someone was trying to force things into my head using a very large fuzzy sledgehammer. Muadib, probably...

PS - Most favoritist RPG artwork ever = The "Margin Doodles" in the AD&D Second Edition Dungeon Master's Guide. (And other pubs in that series)

[Hank001]

Ralph was the craziest and funniest dude I think I ever met. He also drove everybody who worked for him ragged trying to keep up with him. I grew up with Jack S. Who did "rotoscopy" for him. I was visiting the scared sanctum of a trashed out former warehouse in Ventura they'd moved into and I'm giving away my age, they were in collaboration with a major studio for, American Pop. "Realism! I want more @$!#Realism!" he screamed from his office up on a overhand 6 flights up a rickety open metal scaffold stair.
We trod up to introduce me. "Go way' I'm busy."

Weber is deep into another "Oath of Swords" somewhat disgusted HH fans panned his last "Honorverse" book in the "Shadows" series. Derick Chan, Jack of all Trades of BuNine and Admin of Weber's Fan Site and I have a back and forth since I'm not adverse to trekking local University to find answers for tech questions.

In Polyhedron (Oct or Nov late 80's I forget.) I wrote (as satire) the Character Class, "The Bureaucrat". SSI paid me a royalty when such an NPC character became the quest giver in "Curse of the Azure Bonds". In 1986 I was Assistant Regional Coordinator for the Military for the RPGA. In (86-88?) for a year I cartooned for Polyhedron as -Jeff- and wrote modules. Hence begin my game modding experience.

Yes I met Gygax. D&D creator. Briefly. Interesting, I don't think he bathed.

[Golden_Gonads]

My problem with Weber is he overlaps the same time period in his last 5 books or so, making it a convoluted mess. It just wasn't necessary to cram so much together like that. Hell, the last Shadows book only furthered the plot in the last... What? Two chapters? The rest was background fluff. The detail would have been fine if the last two books were linearly integrated and released as two books, but to have them as they were was just pointless. Well, so far anyway. I assume the next book will provide the reason why he did that... I hope.

Another problem is that Harrington started as a commoner, now suddenly she's a close relative to the Beowulf Head of State, that and half her ancestors are all suddenly majorly important folk.... People would have noticed such things. To have nobody do so is... Stupid. Just... Stupid.

[Hank001]

All Weber's fans are saying finish it. Then hand the Torch line over to Eric and stick with the "Swordbrothers" fantasy series. I'm in their camp.

As for you're other point, if you expect an argument from me about it, go back to top subject. Torch I really like and they really don't like the concept of a nobility. That's pure Flint. David on the other hand, (Like myself I admit) are in the Society for Creative Anachronisms. (SCA) and he's a bit fetched with the concept, the tournaments, the "feasts" the trappings of feudalism. Our little fiefdom is more concerned with who's kid is going to play Ariel this season?

[mrbadger]

On Honorverse - I love the original-ish series. But, then it became a somewhat overloaded franchise. I understand it, but I just couldn't read it anymore. As I read through it, it started to seem a bit formulaic. There could have been some interesting stories later in the series and I just didn't get that far. (The same goes for Safehold, at least for me.) Strangely enough, one of my favorite Weber stories is "Out of the Dark." A very nice change of pace and simply "a good story, well told."

I loved Dune. Then I read the next book... then the next... then something finally snapped and I couldn't turn any more pages. Great worldbuilding/universebuilding and some really wonderful ideas, but I started to feel like someone was trying to force things into my head using a very large fuzzy sledgehammer. Muadib, probably...

I tried the Honerverse, I couldn't get into it, I just didn't enjoy the world he was building. I struggled through book one, but didn't bother with any more.

I've been told that it gets better, but I've also been told that the Dehak series was his worst book (well trilogy), and that gripped me from the first page.

It remains one of my favorite repeat reads. Yes it has flaws, but I like the story. That's what matters.

Safehold is going on too long now. I don't think he's going to finish it after all. I think he intended to, but not any more. Now I suspect it will get farmed out to co-authors and branched out till it turns into the mess that the Honerverse seems to have become.

That's a shame, if I'm right, because at the start it had such promise, and other books Weber has written show he understands the beginning-middle-end aspect of storytelling perfectly.

Out of the Dark... Funny thing is, first time through I didn't like it, but something made me want to pick it up again anyway, so I did, and second time through I really enjoyed it. I have it on audiobook now. Apart from sounding like an armaments manual at times it's still good.

He's definatelly writing for the US market with that one.

The Dune series is good apart from Dune Messiah, which should never have been it's own book I think, and seems a bit rushed in places.

'Oh yes, we must go to Siach, and these obvious bad guys must come with us, for reasons... Then, even though I'm the emporer of the entire freaking universe I'll let them get close enough to my babies to threaten them with a knife.
Because that's not inconsistant with the rest of the story at all. No, not one bit...

I admire Herberts Dune Universe vision, but that part of the story, the whole Hayt plotline, engineered as it was more or less at the last minute because the fans wanted him to bring Duncan back, just didn't work.

Once he had time to think about how the return of Duncan could play into the story things got better, but in that book it was a mess.

And it would have been nice if we'd seen his version of the final book. At least his son tried, and it's not a bad try. But he's not his father.

[Hank001]

Have you ever read any Hurbert besides the Dune books? Some of then, the Jesus Incident in particular I liked.

As for Weber like I said, his fantasy outstrips his Sci-fi. He still thinks he C. S. F. Writing Haratio Hornblower in space.
Try his series starting with "Oath of Swords". I have them (first 4) in epub if you have a reader (they are distribs).
From Baen.

[mrbadger]

Have you ever read any Hurbert besides the Dune books? Some of then, the Jesus Incident in particular I liked.

As for Weber like I said, his fantasy outstrips his Sci-fi. He still thinks he C. S. F. Writing Haratio Hornblower in space.
Try his series starting with "Oath of Swords". I have them (first 4) in epub if you have a reader (they are distribs).
From Baen.

It's obvious Weber fancies himself as another Forester, but he isn't. Forester could say a lot more with less. Weber just can't shut up with the detail. It gets a bit boring. I think half of one book was all sea battles and weaponry detail. I got it as an audiobook. That's around 15 hours of sea battles, maybe more, not great.

Another was more of the same but on land, and so totally boring I very nearly started skipping chapters. That's a bad sign. Usually that's stage one of 'not going to buy these any more'.

Now the last book has finally drawn one arc to a close I may well consider that book series done for me and stop buying them.

I've read some of Herberts other books, those I have I like, but the Dune series is my favourite of his work, and the only ones I've re-read. I have all of them I beleive. Most in early edition prints, in my collection.

I'm not a big fan of fantasy books, other than if they have real world historical importance, such as the works of Moorcock when he was writing them to support his SF magazine. Aside from that I'm not so interested. even LOTR failed to interest me as a child, or later.

[Hank001]

Well if you Really prefer Sci-Fi and have a reader Try Baen's website? I'm not their advertising shill, but it offers up freebies, archives of freebies in reader formats.

As my vision is going a reader, pc screen on big hdtv, this smartphone screen on same via wifi, etc is about all I can read. So I snag their offerings on a regular monthly basis. There's enough to read or toss to taste and stay glued to something.

[mrbadger]

Well if you Really prefer Sci-Fi and have a reader Try Baen's website? I'm not their advertising shill, but it offers up freebies, archives of freebies in reader formats.

As my vision is going a reader, pc screen on big hdtv, this smartphone screen on same via wifi, etc is about all I can read. So I snag their offerings on a regular monthly basis. There's enough to read or toss to taste and stay glued to something.

I have a monthly Audible subscription, so I can get a lot of stuff from there. I've been on the Baen site. I don't like ebooks much. For me it's either paper books or audiobooks, except for textbooks, which I do like to have on my kindle.

I have a truly massive SF collection. The audiobook portion I worked out would take about a year to listen to, if you factor in sleep. I use it to amuse myself when commuting.

My paperback collection is many boxes type huge. I don't have a count. I just know it's huge. I have the entire works of some famous authors (Harrison, Heinlein, Niven, Pohl), Novels at least, not their magazine work, usually first editions or early prints. It's taken years, and a lot of work to build up.

I have to work out a value for our house insurance. That's my job for the summer. Or maybe to start this summer. It'll probably take ages just to catalogue everything, since I've not unpacked it since the move to our new house five years ago, and I've added to it quite a bit in that time. Shelving is the thing. My office has been built now, so shelving for them can go up.

[Hank001]

If you don't mind me asking, what do you you do?

Me I might as well fess up. It's called Macular Degeneration as it's the hereditary kind. Audio books of classics from my Dad going the same direction I took from cassette tapes to cds and last summer DVDs. I'll wait until the spots block All my vision, but epubs run through a really neat text to audio that a group on Source Forge is working on. It's in Wine or I'd be contributing more than donations. I don't code Wine.

I do code Unity and Unity 3D for Android and advanced coding for android. That's why I can read this smartphone screen. I coded the magnifier into the phone native LG system.

When the text 2 voice gets ready for testing want me 2 give you a shout?

[mrbadger]

I'm a Computer Science Lecturer at a University in England.
If you have testing of an actual project in use, yes let me know, I can probably find a student to do some. I don't have time myself unfortunatelly.


You should try Audiobooks. I buy them because I like to listen to books in bed and when I commute. Used to listen when I walked in the evening too, but I'm disabled now, so that's not an option.

[Hank001]

I just got Emeritus after my letters this summer. Gained my EET in the service. USAF only US branch without Warrant Officers, I held a Warrant Officer equivalent. Retired in 94, was the last student to gain design degree from Bucky Fuller's design program in 98. Faculty Advisor and ex Air Force was Doctor Richard Archer, the infamous "Commodore" of the Great Cardboard Boat Regatta" Who retired the year I graduated. Have been more or less a professional TA and GA here at SIU-C off and on between jobs as Art Directors and later Producers. Hence me knowing more about you're avatar. Want him animated?
Take me an hour max... Well no, right now I'm batch converting all X3 R/TC bobs into Max. Have to press return every so often. Doubleshadow sent me some wicked software and links to others. Will animate MR for you later

[mrbadger]

Unlike other peoplehere I change my Avatar often depending on which early life form has taken my fancy, so it's a nice offer, but wasted on me. That Avatar is long past needing changing. I've just been too busy to select a new one

[Hank001]

The offer is open Doc. PM me. You're also psychic or coincidental. I'm working on mine as we speak. Not easy when you have to pose a mini me. 80x80? Have be on internet? Doesn't accept my cloud drive? SERIOUSLY?
Let me guess? They are in v 1.1? ( Just kidding, hope that updates come guys. Need contributions for it just dun me)

Read a really long, dry and badly written missive I received today. Worse than sand under the eyelids. "Firefox add on dev guide." Firefox Nightly"s newest beta update refused to load and I had to reboot the phone today.

[Morkonan]

Weber is a wonderful writer, even if a bit long-winded with a few series. I also stopped reading the Safehold series because it suffered from the repetitive "It's another big battle brewing" storylines. Unfortunately, repetition like that is a curse of success. Fans want "more of the same" and get put off when the formulae of their newly favorite story is broken in favor of an experimental injection of a palate cleansing addition.

Honestly, though, Weber is so prolific that there's something in his bibliography for everyone. I haven't read anything of his that wasn't worth reading, even if I was tired of it.

Herbert has a great deal other than "Dune" and he also has something for everyone.

Weber does have a slightly different take on "Military Science Fiction" that is refreshing. He incorporates political and personal plots/storylines very well and that's not something a lot of military sci-fi writers do. Most tend to focus, no matter how broad the conflict, with a squad-level lens. Thanks to Weber's settings, he's able to paint with both a large brush and the small, more intimate, one that a lot of military SF fans like. (At times, depending on the novel, Weber's approach sometimes reminds me of "Red Storm Rising." Though, from the stories I've read, few are as truly "epic" in nature.)

A shameful plug for one of my most favoritist of series: David Feintuch's "Nicholoas Seafort" saga. It's most definitely a "Horatio Hornblower in Space" series. While the writing isn't as brilliant and beautiful as Forester, as if anything else could be, the character is very much like a somewhat flawed, deliciously so, mirror of Hornblower. However, Seafort is arguably much more provoking, much more demanding, of a character than Hornblower. It's a Hornblower taken to extremes. Great read, though some readers may fall by the wayside during the later books. The first ones, though, are outstanding adventures.

[Hank001]

Google his fansite he does podcasts. When "Basilisk Station" came out I was a fan of his shorts I didn't go back to to see the series had grown until he sort of gave up the great "Stars at War" series and handed it over to another author that. Only completed one book and it left readers hanging.

[Morkonan]

Weber engages in a lot of cooperative efforts. I'm unsure how much of that it is his choice or Bean's. Though, in interviews, I've seen him comment positively on such experiences.

But, for me, any co-authored story with certain highly credentialed authors is a cause for pause. There are only a few such works that I have ever read which were truly worth reading and weren't obviously just a vehicle for an editor's or publisher's choice of "up and coming" author to push.

[Hank001]

Sorry. Laughing so hard at Trump post can barely type.
(Thanks that caught me by surprise)
That was....perfect for the moment. He was on the news.

Two authors for the times with competing ideological visions take your choice,

Aldius Huxley, Brave New World in the left and George Orwell and 1984 on the right.

[mrbadger]

Weber is a wonderful writer, even if a bit long-winded with a few series. I also stopped reading the Safehold series because it suffered from the repetitive "It's another big battle brewing" storylines. Unfortunately, repetition like that is a curse of success. Fans want "more of the same" and get put off when the formulae of their newly favorite story is broken in favor of an experimental injection of a palate cleansing addition.

He’s got into the habit that it seems too many editors in America allow, where exposition can take the place of quality, so long as the the resulting book is big enough. A far cry from the days when barely a word over 60,000 was permitted, and the result was some of the finest works of American Science Fiction history. Many of the Safehold saga books have a great novel trapped inside stifling mounds of pointless, if well crafted, exposition.


Yes, he does focus on the small unit level, but often to the extent of holding the main plot back too much, and it is only getting worse.

Reading his work now shows me what not to do as a writer. For my examples of good writing I look elsewhere.

A shameful plug for one of my most favoritist of series: David Feintuch's "Nicholoas Seafort" saga. It's most definitely a "Horatio Hornblower in Space" series. While the writing isn't as brilliant and beautiful as Forester, as if anything else could be, the character is very much like a somewhat flawed, deliciously so, mirror of Hornblower. However, Seafort is arguably much more provoking, much more demanding, of a character than Hornblower. It's a Hornblower taken to extremes. Great read, though some readers may fall by the wayside during the later books. The first ones, though, are outstanding adventures.

I absolutely loved those. I agree that the books aren’t as polished as Foresters, whose style they definatelly mimic, but the story and the characters are so good I don’t care. The pace is great.
He really gut punches you at times too. His version of space travel is more interesting than many I’ve read, it allows for the kinds of distortions of truth due to time delay that must have occurred in the sail powered era.