Trump

Usenko · Post by **Usenko** » Sat, 19. May 18, 02:55

Is there lots of cynicism? I'm sure there is some, but it's not cynical to:

* Call a person out on flagrant untruth.

* Point out a person's lack of consistency in public statements.

* Describe the many and varied ways a person's actions have caused damage to the office they hold and the country they have sworn to 'make great again'.

* Assume that someone who has a pattern of dishonest behaviour will continue to behave in that way.

Mightysword · Post by **Mightysword** » Sat, 19. May 18, 03:51

Usenko wrote:Is there lots of cynicism? I'm sure there is some, but it's not cynical to:

As it turns out I may not be using the right word, I went and look up its definition and its original meaning doesn't seem to be broad enough to encompass my usage, or maybe I'm using it right because the modern usage of the world is applicable. The original meaning seems to limit itself to just personal gain or greed, my intention is meant to be broader than that, and it means just to assume the worst in each others or of ... anything really. And no, even within this thread, it's not really always about Trump.

Morkonan · Post by **Morkonan** » Sat, 19. May 18, 04:32

Mightysword wrote:
Usenko wrote:Is there lots of cynicism? I'm sure there is some, but it's not cynical to:
As it turns out I may not be using the right word, I went and look up its definition and its original meaning doesn't seem to be broad enough to encompass my usage, or maybe I'm using it right because the modern usage of the world is applicable. The original meaning seems to limit itself to just personal gain or greed, my intention is meant to be broader than that, and it means just to assume the worst in each others or of ... anything really. And no, even within this thread, it's not really always about Trump.

I think your use was appropriate. After all, it was fully understood by others, right? "Definitions" aren't about what is written in a dictionary, they're about what the common culture understands words to mean.

Yes, perhaps we have a dim view of our future. Or, perhaps, we are a bit cynical when it comes down to the possibility for something positive to happen. But, we have a just cause to be so cynical - We don't see an optimistic path forward, given what our desires may be.

For me, I want an ethical, moral, leader that I can trust and that will tell me the truth. I see none of that in Trump and I'm a fiscal conservative who should be rallying to his side after the reduction in corporate tax rates!

But, I can't. The man is "bad." He says bad things. He does bad things. He seems to support bad things. The sorts of things he speaks out in favor of are exactly the sorts of things that I generally consider "bad." And, he simply doesn't talk about specifics very often and, when he does, he lies...

So, yeah, I'm a cynic when it comes down to the possibility that "good things will happen." I think the damage that Trump will do will take decades to repair, if ever. And... our Congress doesn't seem to give a damn and too many voters don't pay any real attention to anything, preferring to have their thoughts crammed into their own heads by someone else... :/

But, if I find something optimistic, I will promise to post on it, point it out, and give credit where credit is due!

I don't expect making a bunch of posts on that subject, though...

pjknibbs · Post by **pjknibbs** » Sat, 19. May 18, 05:30

I'm with Ambrose Bierce on this one: "A cynic is a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be".

BugMeister · Post by **BugMeister** » Sat, 19. May 18, 09:22

"Here come ole flat-top, he come groovin' up slowly.."

- language can be challenging, Tom Wolf was a shining star when it came to defining the "feeling" engendered by words - a master..
- it's always provoked discussion, and will continue to do so
Marshall McLuhan used to take issue with it's "misuse"..
- and it's interesting that Wolf's last publication should challenge the blank assumptions of Darwinism, and put the case for language..

- to pursue this wild paranoia, like blade-runner, we search for the replicants among us

- meanwhile, the illusion that "money is power" has come home to roost..

- in a world of oligarchs awash with monkey-money, it's hard not to be cynical..
- no wonder it has gone beyond comedy..

- even if you are NOT partisan, you have to ask yourself
- at what point does lobbying become bribery?

- at what point do we stop laughing, and sit up and take notice?
- It appears there is a growing number of people who are simply perplexed
- by what passes as "politics" or what constitutes "political power"

- as always, one trusts that people will hold together, and continue to press the case for probity in government..

*Bug exits to The Frog Chorus by Lord Paul MCartnish GCE and bar*

- etc, etc..

Post by **Santi** » Sun, 20. May 18, 05:36

BugMeister wrote:"Here come ole flat-top, he come groovin' up slowly.."

- language can be challenging, Tom Wolf was a shining star when it came to defining the "feeling" engendered by words - a master..
- it's always provoked discussion, and will continue to do so
Marshall McLuhan used to take issue with it's "misuse"..
- and it's interesting that Wolf's last publication should challenge the blank assumptions of Darwinism, and put the case for language..

*Bug exits to The Frog Chorus by Lord Paul MCartnish GCE and bar*

- etc, etc..

Great, nicely done, plenty of references, but lacking focus and a clear message. More importantly, what you are talking about?

Morkonan · Post by **Morkonan** » Sun, 20. May 18, 05:52

Santi wrote:...More importantly, what you are talking about?

^--- This.

BugMeister · Post by **BugMeister** » Sun, 20. May 18, 15:04

"Napoleon in rags, and the language that he use..
Go to him now, he calls you - you can't refuse..
When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose.."

- the Trump administration is a farce..
- even the language they use is farcical..

- there are literally hundreds of examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nhoGIvOKJU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHv0RExQsPQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ0AnL-L6u4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pzODB1eL7s

- got it?

Morkonan · Post by **Morkonan** » Tue, 22. May 18, 07:36

Pence say's DPRK/KJU will end up like Libya

Uh... Do these people live in a different world? In the world I live in, Libya was full of possible opportunists, from tribal leaders to exiled generals aching for their place in history. With the flames of what could only be described as "rebellion" echoing in neighboring countries, it was ripe for a revolt of its own, one that may have been put down if not for outside intervention, I'll add.

NONE of these things exist in DPRK. It's possible there could be some general that has escaped the dictator's noose, but a population that would be willing to rise against what amounts to their divine dynasty?

Does he expect that we will somehow just fly over there with air support and the UK, urged, practically compelled, by our French allies, to assist some phantom force in a hostile overthrow of the regime?

And, all while South Korea claps? It's hard to clap while they're digging graves of possibly tens of thousands, if not more, people killed in the region of Seoul, within practically a hand-grenade-toss from what may be the most massed artillery seen since Waterloo...

Holy crap these people are stupid and say stupid things. It's maddening. It serves no purpose other than to risk innocent people's lives for the sake of a darn headline.

Do they want a war? Is that it? Must they have "their war?"

Something happened when Pompeo made an uprecendented, practially revolutionary isit to DPRK. Something. Is that why this insane rhetoric continues? Do they have some "leverage" that nobody is speaking about? They must, because no sane person would seek to inflame this delicate situation any further and jeopardize an opportunity for, at the very least, a possible beginning for a peaceful discussion.

I have no doubt that it's very likely KJU has no intentions at all of giving up his iron-fisted rule of DRPK nor do I doubt his continued sabre-rattling against his neighbor. But, we need to take advantage of whatever we can that may possibly lead to true peace, even if we have to wade through a mountain of distasteful crap to get there and spare some lives in the process.

Bugmeister wrote:- got it?

Maybe...

BugMeister · Post by **BugMeister** » Tue, 22. May 18, 23:36

- strange scenes from inside the gold-mine..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UeLFyNmbN4

- this ridiculous plotting and scheming is unprecedented for many of us.. it's playing out like some horrible morality
play in which anything honest and truthful is mercilessly slaughtered in the name of loyalty to the glorious leader..
- it plays out at the epic scale of Lord Of The Rings, written during the lead-up to and during the second world war, btw..
Essentially, the saga demands that we accept the existence of good and evil in a world of turmoil and upheaval..
it points us to those individuals who hold power and shows us how their followers are rallied to the cause..
it warns us of corrupt leaders who's morality has been mangled by greed and lust for control
it also shows us the true meaning of fellowship and courage in the face of grave danger..
oh, and did I mention that it was written by an Oxford professor of language
against the backdrop of war in Europe - as a fairy tale for his son, who was fighting the enemy..??

- words, words, all is words..
yet how wonderful those words can be..

RegisterMe · Post by **RegisterMe** » Thu, 24. May 18, 00:44

Smoke'n mirrors or smoke'n fire?

Bishop149 · Post by **Bishop149** » Thu, 24. May 18, 12:10

I think this sums up what I think of Trump voters pretty well . . . . . and is probably more broadly true for many people who just can't wrap their heads around the new political reality in the US.

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/why-3

Edit: Also
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... urt-ruling

A federal court has finally ruled Trump in violation of the constitution, what for? His blatant kleptocracy? The bribes from foreign governments? His attempts to destroy and discredit the free press?
Nope
He shouldn’t block ppl on Twitter

Post by **euclid** » Thu, 24. May 18, 13:56

It's 23+ mins but well worth it, so please try to watch it all:

Chomsky's point of view

Cheers Euclid

BugMeister · Post by **BugMeister** » Thu, 24. May 18, 14:10

- he discredits what he can't control and destroys all faith in authority
- he's a scandalous sham, and the Replicant's love him..
- he's fishing for fame in a poisoned river of slime

etc, etc..

Bishop149 · Post by **Bishop149** » Thu, 24. May 18, 16:09

No meeting with “little rocket man” after all due to “tremendous anger and open hostility". No not Trumps apparently.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 67306.html

I never thought this would actually happen but honestly didn’t think Trump would be the one to back out.

Morkonan · Post by **Morkonan** » Thu, 24. May 18, 17:17

Bishop149 wrote:...I never thought this would actually happen but honestly didn’t think Trump would be the one to back out.

Same.

Maybe it's a case of beating Kim to the punch. Kim's rhetoric hasn't exactly been supportive or encouraging in terms of possible progress. And, if Trump had gone and come back with nothing, or less, it wouldn't have been a good thing.

Surprisingly, at least right now as this story developed, I'm not hearing/reading outraged condemnation of Trump for cancelling. What some are criticizing is that Trump had set up this meeting before ironing out the fine points to be negotiated. IOW - For what I've seen up to the moment, there's not a lot of media outrage and criticism for this cancellation. There's more focus on criticism of setting it up without, apparently, having an agenda already in hand.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/24/politics ... index.html

The excuse appears to be latest statements by DPRK. But, perhaps, the real reason is that there just wasn't sufficient focus for the meeting in the first place. There's also the possibility that Kim may have been just miming cooperation, which most suspect, but would have gone further by withdrawing or simply not showing up after Trump had actually traveled to the talks.

Anyway, not much of a surprise that this non-event went pear-shaped,, just some surprise that it is capped off by Trump cancelling it.

Post by **euclid** » Thu, 24. May 18, 17:36

Concerning the background of the North Korea issue check this starting at 46.35 mins..

Cheers Euclid

Morkonan · Post by **Morkonan** » Thu, 24. May 18, 17:57

euclid wrote:Concerning the background of the North Korea issue check this starting at 46.35 mins..

I love Noam's stuff, except when he turns to political commentary. Despite his true brilliance, he is politically myopic.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fac ... edirect=on

In that lecture, what does he do? "Teh Bush people are teh bad ones and tehy did teh bad thing." He completely brushes aside everything else but blame on a Republican administration. On that, he's very clear in his lecture, while ignoring the whole "why" of the situation and the events that led up to that.

Dangit, Noam, you're a brilliant guy, but please stop banging your political gavel.

Noam is wrong, here. What's worse, is there's no way this brilliant man doesn't know he's saying... wrong stuff. Many people at that lecture are going to listen to him and believe what he says, without question.

Hank001 · Post by **Hank001** » Thu, 24. May 18, 18:34

I might believe in fairies;
or the occasional unicorn.
I might believe in the tooth fairy
and look under pillows each mourn.

BUT no way are getting me to believe that
Kim's going to give up his nukes OR that
anything Trump has in mind is going
to do anything but make thing worse.

Kim thinking ----> This sunshine and rainbows crap is going to get me killed by my own military!

Trump thinking ----> This summit crap isn't getting me anywhere and that little ratball isn't helping any either!

Retiredman · Post by **Retiredman** » Thu, 24. May 18, 20:07

Hank001 wrote: Kim thinking ----> This sunshine and rainbows crap is going to get me killed by my own military!

Trump thinking ----> This summit crap isn't getting me anywhere and that little ratball isn't helping any either!

Sums it up.. right and spot on.

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