Random News not worthy of own thread

[mr.WHO]

Because people will read/watch it, as has just been proven in this very thread. Was it really that much of a struggle to understand why certain "news" becomes news? A bit like main headlines in the UK over Prince Harry's Netflix docu. No agenda's there.

Oh, unless you are saying right wing extremists plots against govts should be left well alone? If that's what you're meaning then

I'd say it's modern day media in a nutshell...but honestly, after 3 years of constant bombarding with COVID, lockdowns, climate changes, war and inflation...suddenly failed beta cuck prince drama is mildly amusing and refreshing alternative

[chew-ie]

And yet it is very important that Germany brings all those extremists to justice AND society is discussing them.

The last two years led to a lot of organic grow in extremist groups. This case is just one of many Reichsbürger / Querdenken / Qanon / Anthroposophy cleanups.

[mr.WHO]

And yet it is very important that Germany brings all those extremists to justice AND society is discussing them.

The last two years led to a lot of organic grow in extremist groups. This case is just one of many Reichsbürger / Querdenken / Qanon / Anthroposophy cleanups.

Last years do make people go nuts, but there is also for sure some russian finger in it, especially now.
No wonder Germany is doing some house cleaning before it turn ugly.
Hell, Russia was overtly supporting Katalonia separatism, to the point Russia promised mercenaries and instructors in case of violent breakup.

Aparently, those dudes in Germany started to compile execution list and planned to kill at least 50 people.
I guess German authorities were like: "Enough of your LARP'ing, it's a jail time".

[clakclak]

So who do we have here (based on what I gethered from German news sources as well)?

At least one crazed former member of the KSK (that is basically Germany's version of the Delta Force), who is potentially a VERY dangerous individual. He is one of multiple former (also active?) soldiers. There is also at least one police officer in the bunch.

Then there is Birgit Malsack-Winkemann. Former member of the German parliament for, yes you guessed correctly, the AfD. She was a judge, technically I think she still is a judge.

So far we have, a bunch of people from the executive branch of the government and at least one member of the judicial branch with a past in the legislative branch.

Interesting... I wonder if the former soldier came from certain dissolved company of KSK which was disbanded after its members were found to be rife with right wing extremists.
[...]

Today we know that he is actually an active member of the KSK not a former member.

On the other hand you could also ask why such a meager number of public enemies arrested makes it even a topic for international media. Let's face it, even Hitler's failed coup in the 1920s had more manpower? Seems a bit like some politicians whose public support plummets need something to show as a success.

I have seen that narrative being pushed by a lot of people in the AfD/right wing circles. There is a conspirarcy theory going around that all of this was allegedly a setup by the BRD GmbH or whatever it is the right wing calls this country these days, to divert attention from a rape that happend in Illerkirchberg.

More to your point:

I doubt people here care about it as much as about why Germany failed at the football WC this year again (although they did much better than in 2018).

Speaking as a German here, I do not give a single F**K about the national team loosing. For all I care the national team can be disbanded. What I DO care about is people trying to overthrow our democratically elected government. And I am sure I am not the only German here who cares about that stuff. So to answer your question: No, not everyone in this country is willing to simply turn a blind eye to facist uprisings and that is why this is all over the news. Because there are people who actually do care about these things.

[Warenwolf]

Today we know that he is actually an active member of the KSK not a former member.

Hmm... This is an indication of both extremist worldviews on his behalf but also a total lack of professionalism. Reminds me slightly of Franco Albrecht guy (who got of extremely lightly for his deeds imho).


Slightly OT but related:

Just remembered being shown by a friend last year researching the radicalization around the time Trump supports were storming the capitol.
This was a chat between former military members of US Army which were celebrating the events that day while earlier that week in different chat bemoaning the fact that "patriots" in KSK were kicked out (they were talking about KSK company being disbanded because socialist/liberals in German government branded anyone with "national pride" as extremist). The paradox of their line of thought (genuine pride in American democracy and cheering on non-democratic movements and attacks on that very democracy) was totally lost on them.

[Cpt.Jericho]

What I find strange is that such gathering of the people should know that crowd of two dozen can't overturn a regime which has a mandate from large swathes of electorate, surrounded by nations that are nominally allied to that very same regime. What alternative reality did they operate in? Were they collectively sniffing glue or something?

On the other hand you could also ask why such a meager number of public enemies arrested makes it even a topic for international media.

Because people will read/watch it, as has just been proven in this very thread. Was it really that much of a struggle to understand why certain "news" becomes news? A bit like main headlines in the UK over Prince Harry's Netflix docu. No agenda's there.

Oh, unless you are saying right wing extremists plots against govts should be left well alone? If that's what you're meaning then

[...]

Well, of course not, we've seen a few years ago in country not too far away what happens when right wing extremists plot a coup against a democratical elected gouvernment.
But then again, 25 "Reichbürger" against German gouvernment? If Scholz is afraid that a few wackos could ursurp his power, then he's the wrong guy for the job. Putting a few people considering themselves a few generations in the past behind bars is something that could and should have been done years ago (the "Reichsbürger" movement is really nothing new). The "Last Generation" (the latest soon to be terrorists) have a better chance to topple the gouvernment. And I consider their chances for that somewhere near 0%.

[mr.WHO]

But then again, 25 "Reichbürger" against German gouvernment? If Scholz is afraid that a few wackos could ursurp his power, then he's the wrong guy for the job. Putting a few people considering themselves a few generations in the past behind bars is something that could and should have been done years ago (the "Reichsbürger" movement is really nothing new). The "Last Generation" (the latest soon to be terrorists) have a better chance to topple the gouvernment. And I consider their chances for that somewhere near 0%.

I think those are more treated as germs - not in derogatory, but literal term.
When body is healthy, they can't do anything, but once body is under stress, infection, bad condition, they can suddenly become dangerous and cause harm.

Given a grim socio-economic outlook for next few years, it make sence for Germany to crackdown on extremist now, rather than wait and follow Weimar Republic.
Especially, if extremist plan coup & murder while ex-special-forces are involved and Russia would be happy to exploit every opportunity to weaken the West.

[clakclak]

On the other hand you could also ask why such a meager number of public enemies arrested makes it even a topic for international media.

Because people will read/watch it, as has just been proven in this very thread. Was it really that much of a struggle to understand why certain "news" becomes news? A bit like main headlines in the UK over Prince Harry's Netflix docu. No agenda's there.

Oh, unless you are saying right wing extremists plots against govts should be left well alone? If that's what you're meaning then

[...]

Well, of course not, we've seen a few years ago in country not too far away what happens when right wing extremists plot a coup against a democratical elected gouvernment.
But then again, 25 "Reichbürger" against German gouvernment? If Scholz is afraid that a few wackos could ursurp his power, then he's the wrong guy for the job. Putting a few people considering themselves a few generations in the past behind bars is something that could and should have been done years ago (the "Reichsbürger" movement is really nothing new). The "Last Generation" (the latest soon to be terrorists) have a better chance to topple the gouvernment. And I consider their chances for that somewhere near 0%.

Oh please. Finally stop with this insanity of comparing soldiers hoarding guns with specific plans to overthrow the government to people who glue themselves to streets and who's most dangerous weapon is a can of soup.

How many people have been killed by the last Generation? How many guns have been confiscated? How many plans for a shadow government have been uncovered? Honestly this comparison is insane and it is reflected in how police forces act when confronted with climate activists. Is police storming the home of a 15 year old because she allegedly used some spray chalk (which washes off easily) to write "Do You Need That?" infront of a store really appropriate? To me it looks like the only thing terroristic about the last generation, Fridays For Future and so on the way in which police treat them.

Edit, to illustrate my point further: This is not the same as this.

[mr.WHO]

Oh please. Finally stop with this insanity of comparing soldiers hoarding guns with specific plans to overthrow the government to people who glue themselves to streets and who's most dangerous weapon is a can of soup.

While I agree that those two are on different level of danger, it doesn't mean that eco-terrorism won't become more violent threat in the future.

It can still be treated as silly and below the radar, but it's not like foreign secret services doesn't have an interest in pushing them towards more direct and violent actions.

[clakclak]

Oh please. Finally stop with this insanity of comparing soldiers hoarding guns with specific plans to overthrow the government to people who glue themselves to streets and who's most dangerous weapon is a can of soup.

While I agree that those two are on different level of danger, it doesn't mean that eco-terrorism won't become more violent threat in the future.

It can still be treated as silly and below the radar, but it's not like foreign secret services doesn't have an interest in pushing them towards more direct and violent actions.

I don't really think any forgein intervention is needed. Don't forget we are talking about Germany here. In our country climate activists get arrested under something called "Präventivhaft" (preventive arrest), which is an arrest without any charge. In Bavaria they can be held for up to two months without charges. That is a good way to speed up radicalisation, as if you are simply gone from your job for two months, it is unlikely you have a job upon being released and you may also loose your home.

[mr.WHO]

I don't really think any forgein intervention is needed. Don't forget we are talking about Germany here. In our country climate activists get arrested under something called "Präventivhaft" (preventive arrest), which is an arrest without any charge. In Bavaria they can be held for up to two months without charges. That is a good way to speed up radicalisation, as if you are simply gone from your job for two months, it is unlikely you have a job upon being released and you may also loose your home.

Preventive arrest without a charge is nothing unusal, if it's short (e.g. 48 hours), but two months definetly sounds like an abuse.
Doesn't this break human rights or some EU regulations?

[clakclak]

I don't really think any forgein intervention is needed. Don't forget we are talking about Germany here. In our country climate activists get arrested under something called "Präventivhaft" (preventive arrest), which is an arrest without any charge. In Bavaria they can be held for up to two months without charges. That is a good way to speed up radicalisation, as if you are simply gone from your job for two months, it is unlikely you have a job upon being released and you may also loose your home.

Preventive arrest without a charge is nothing unusal, if it's short (e.g. 48 hours), but two months definetly sounds like an abuse.
Doesn't this break human rights or some EU regulations?

Apparently not. After one month a judge has to confirm the arrest again though. It was meant to be three months at some point, with the possibility for unlimited renewals as long as a judge orders it, but was changed after massive protests. The practice is controversial in Germany, however just yesterday a judge in bavaria once again ordered preventive detention for climate activists, this time till January 5th.

[Cpt.Jericho]

Oh please. Finally stop with this insanity of comparing soldiers hoarding guns with specific plans to overthrow the government to people who glue themselves to streets and who's most dangerous weapon is a can of soup.

How many people have been killed by the last Generation? How many guns have been confiscated? How many plans for a shadow government have been uncovered? Honestly this comparison is insane and it is reflected in how police forces act when confronted with climate activists. Is police storming the home of a 15 year old because she allegedly used some spray chalk (which washes off easily) to write "Do You Need That?" infront of a store really appropriate? To me it looks like the only thing terroristic about the last generation, Fridays For Future and so on the way in which police treat them.

Edit, to illustrate my point further: This is not the same as this.

Well, you may call it insane, but the calls to make glueing yourself to a public road to become a criminal offense is getting louder. Same with some conspiracy theories that the "Last Generation" is connected to left extremists. Todays extremists are only one step away from being tomorrows terrorists.

However, to get back to topic: 25 is a meagre success considering the sheer number of militant right-wing extremists and neo-nazis in Germany; I mean, good riddance of those 25. But what about the ten thousands neo-nazis that are still on the loose? The problem in Germany has been and still is that justice has been (most of the time) rightly zealous when it came to left-wing extremism and being quite near-sighted (if not blind) when it comes to right-wing extremists or even terrorists. The terrorist attacks done by the NSU were dismissed as being crimes between groups of people with migration background for years as I'm sure you remember.

[Chips]

I mean, good riddance of those 25. But what about the ten thousands neo-nazis that are still on the loose?

Is there a crime they're in the process of/have committed that means they can be prosecuted? I don't know German law, so I don't know... and I certainly don't know what tens of thousands of fascists have done either! Best to ask your countries Govt/Police than this forum. Write to your local elected official - perhaps they can help answer.

[matthewfarmery]

WOW! special counsel Jack Smith is moving fast! It's now confirmed that he is investigating 3 investigations, instead of 2.

https://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/wat ... 7522501721

He is now looking into the Georgia case, where Trump phoned the secretary of state, and demanded that the officials find more votes. subpoenas have been issued, including for the phone call. So yeah, he not sitting on his hands is Jack Smith. I think he going for the kill. also, its been confirmed that two more prosecutors have been added to Jack's team, which means things are moving fast, and hopefully they will go for Trump.

Interesting developments an I'm sure more is on it's way!

[Cpt.Jericho]

I mean, good riddance of those 25. But what about the ten thousands neo-nazis that are still on the loose?

Is there a crime they're in the process of/have committed that means they can be prosecuted? I don't know German law, so I don't know... and I certainly don't know what tens of thousands of fascists have done either! Best to ask your countries Govt/Police than this forum. Write to your local elected official - perhaps they can help answer.

Well, the Neo-Nazis around here do pretty much the same as everywhere else; with the difference, that most typical Nazi insignia (swastika, SS-runes, Schwarze Sonne/Sonnenrad, Wolfsangel and raising your right arm at just the right (pun intended) angle) are actually considered here as an offense. Investgations into these hardly ever end in any kind of Razzia, even though the problem of right-wing extremism and terrorism has been a problem even before what happened in Rostok or Hoyerswerda back in the 1990s.

[clakclak]

I mean, good riddance of those 25. But what about the ten thousands neo-nazis that are still on the loose?

Is there a crime they're in the process of/have committed that means they can be prosecuted? I don't know German law, so I don't know... and I certainly don't know what tens of thousands of fascists have done either! Best to ask your countries Govt/Police than this forum. Write to your local elected official - perhaps they can help answer.

Well, the Neo-Nazis around here do pretty much the same as everywhere else; with the difference, that most typical Nazi insignia (swastika, SS-runes, Schwarze Sonne/Sonnenrad, Wolfsangel and raising your right arm at just the right (pun intended) angle) are actually considered here as an offense. Investgations into these hardly ever end in any kind of Razzia, even though the problem of right-wing extremism and terrorism has been a problem even before what happened in Rostok or Hoyerswerda back in the 1990s.

I think the thing that really is dangerous about the Neo-Nazi scene in Germany is the support they have in official institutions especially the various Verfassungschutz offices (for those not from Germany, those are the "Offices for the Protection of the Constitution". The exist on state and federal level seperately and the best altough faulty comparison would probably Homeland Security in America or the MI5 in the UK). The are a bit like Homeland Security or the MI5). The NSU scandle in itself is an absurd shit show, but it seems like the entire system has massive issues. People like Hans-Georg "I did not join the CDU 30 years ago just so that today 1.8 million arabs can come to Germany" Maaßen, the former president of the federal Branch of the Verfassungschutz, have always been pretty clear about the fact that they see the Verfassungschutz as a tool and political weopon to be aimed at those they disagree with or who they dislike. Given that the quote I put in his name is an actual quote he also gave us a pretty good idea who in this country will be subject to certain measures and why.

[chew-ie]

@clakclak

Indeed, Germany has a massive problem there. In my eyes it is beyond repair, thus I won't invest in that country anymore. All this would achieve is to help racists gain more ground.

[clakclak]

@clakclak

Indeed, Germany has a massive problem there. In my eyes it is beyond repair, thus I won't invest in that country anymore. All this would achieve is to help racists gain more ground.

Not an option for me, although I understand your feeling. I have many people here who I love and I would like things to be better if not for me, then at least for them. That is why I try to do what little one person can do to improve things. 40% of the time you feel lost and don't know where to start, like you can't change anything, or you are unsure if what you are doing really is the 'right thing' (and what even is the 'right thing'). 40% of the time you run up against unmovable obstacles and achieve nothing. 10% you are just spend and want to simply give up on everything, but then there are the last 10% when things work out and you made some difference, no matter how small. That gives hope to keep on pushing.

[Chips]

@clakclak

Indeed, Germany has a massive problem there. In my eyes it is beyond repair, thus I won't invest in that country anymore. All this would achieve is to help racists gain more ground.

Wait, so in a population of 88 million, you think your investment would only increase the far right extremism in the country, because... your money is going directly to them? Or your funds into the 3.6 trillion dollar economy is going to make some gains towards right win extremism?

I mean I'm all for principles, but in realistic terms. I hope you don't invest in anything remotely USA - after all, they actually had an attempt to overthrow govt, subvert the reigns of power, and disregard democracy.

Just trying to put some perspective here. Reactions seem a bit, funnily enough, "extreme".