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BrasatoAlBarolo
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Re: Trump

Post by BrasatoAlBarolo » Fri, 29. May 20, 17:00

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Fri, 29. May 20, 16:25
BrasatoAlBarolo wrote:
Fri, 29. May 20, 15:45
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Fri, 29. May 20, 15:23


That was based on a true story. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Stallworth
I knew that, but what fascinated / horrified me was that nothing has changed in all these years, in a place which had so many black heroes in sports, society, arts and politics.
As Dr. Ian Malcolm would say: "Racism... finds a way"
I would argue that a lot has changed. While racism and white supremacy has certainly seen an uptick since dear leader took office, we've also seen a record number of women of color elected to congress in the 2018 midterms. 50+ years ago, that would have been inconceivable. Another example, today, there are almost double the amount of blacks graduating from college than were even 15 years ago, even though the overall rate still remains low compared to whites.

The difference between now and 4 years ago is that racists have been emboldened by Trump. He didn't create new racists, he just encouraged the existing ones to climb out of their pits, hence the renewed activity. We've even seen that apparent here on this very forum.

But I would also argue that not enough has been changed. People like Joe Arpio and Steve King should never have been elected to their positions, or at the very least, re-elected, when their racial bias was made apparent. Their kind of bigoted and out right racial discrimination has no place in government. Fortunately, Steve King has been relegated to only general assembly votes and it doesn't look like he's going to survive the November elections and Joe Arpio was canned and jailed for criminal contempt of court, though subsequently pardoned by dear leader.

The mind of a racist is a truly baffling thing. I can't comprehend it, personally. But I do find it amusing when they demand respect and try to condemn intolerance of their intolerant views.
Yes, I was exagerating for sure. But like you said, I'm still worried by how big is racism in western countries. Xenophoby has been rising a lot in Europe too: Italian anti-immigration
- winking to fascist times - parties (Lega and Fratelli d'Italia - Italian Brothers), German neo-nazis, French Front Nationale, plus Greek, Austrian, Eastern and Northern Europe nationalists. And recent economic crisis, the upcoming post-covid crisis might be even worse, is going to give this kind of people more strength. And it's very easy for them, too easy.

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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Fri, 29. May 20, 17:13

BrasatoAlBarolo wrote:
Fri, 29. May 20, 17:00
Yes, I was exagerating for sure. But like you said, I'm still worried by how big is racism in western countries. Xenophoby has been rising a lot in Europe too: Italian anti-immigration
- winking to fascist times - parties (Lega and Fratelli d'Italia - Italian Brothers), German neo-nazis, French Front Nationale, plus Greek, Austrian, Eastern and Northern Europe nationalists. And recent economic crisis, the upcoming post-covid crisis might be even worse, is going to give this kind of people more strength. And it's very easy for them, too easy.
Not if society holds them accountable. I don't know the exact challenges of fighting racism overseas, but here, we don't stop fighting against it. Sure, they have their 5 minutes of fame right now, but we'll send them scurrying back to their hidey holes and continue to educate the population against that kind of ignorance. And, I've said before and I'll say it again, the generation where most of that stems from is not going to be around for much longer. I realize their passing won't put an end to racism and maybe we'll never completely see a total erasure of racism, but when those degenerates pop up to say 'hi', we don't have to accept their presence.
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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Fri, 29. May 20, 20:59

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOBC4Qsk3x4

Derek Chauvin has been arrested and charges are pending.

Based on everything that's been released so far, I feel like he's going to go down for murder and rightfully so.

edit*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48pWH9hcAuM
He's been charged with 3rd degree murder and manslaughter, further charges may be forth coming. The other 3 former officers have not yet been charged but they are still reviewing evidence and investigating.
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Re: Trump

Post by Masterbagger » Sat, 30. May 20, 03:13

Race riots in dem cities is like reliving the obama years. I stayed up late watching feeds of bad behavior. There were many genuine protesters just being outdoors and angry. The looting was bad to watch and there were some physical assaults going on. Chains like target and autozone are going to be ok but the small guys running shops may not and they had nothing at all to do with a couple bad cops murdering a guy. Looks like some low income housing burnt down too and one looter was shot by a pawn shop owner. That is a clear no win scenario for the shop owner. He kills a looter and the cops arrest him. Then the cops leave and there is no one to stop the mob from burning his place down. I hope he has some way to get compensation from the city for that.

It's not a happy thought to realize how thin the protections of our society really are. The cops in that city were under siege in their station and there was nothing regulating the actions of that mob. If they had a mind to go out murdering there would have been no one to call for protection from them. No one would come. That mob was eerily well organized too. They were using lasers on the helicopters and the cops on the roof. They were shooting fireworks as makeshift artillery and they did strike some of the cops with them. One thing I took away was that the police were broadcasting unencrypted and people in the crowd were listening in. The police were calling for an LRAD which tightly broadcasts sound very far. Don't know if they got it. Something to keep in mind if you have a mind to protest is that you need to be able to counter eye irritants, gas, and have hearing protection.
RegisterMe wrote:
Fri, 29. May 20, 14:04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftLzQefpBvM

A black CNN reporter and his team arrested by the police, with no reason provided a) when a white CNN reporter in the area was allowed to continue reporting and b) when the cop who killed George Floyd has not been arrested.
That was one of the stupidest possible things those cops could have done. I don't understand why they did it. There was a lack of critical thinking in that situation. From their perspective it should have been obvious from the guys with cameras and microphones that this was a guy involved in journalism and I hate using that word for CNN. If they had needed anything from him and his crew they could have told him and they would have done it. This is stupidity making a bad situation worse and for once CNN is not to blame. No excuse to the cops. If they were told to do that they should have refused. They deserve a lawsuit and the city paying out for violating the rights of that reporter. It's so stupid what they did that it hurts to see it.
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Fri, 29. May 20, 16:25

I would argue that a lot has changed. While racism and white supremacy has certainly seen an uptick since dear leader took office, we've also seen a record number of women of color elected to congress in the 2018 midterms. 50+ years ago, that would have been inconceivable. Another example, today, there are almost double the amount of blacks graduating from college than were even 15 years ago, even though the overall rate still remains low compared to whites.
50+ years ago the GOP rammed civil rights down the throats of flaming racist democrats that fought tooth and nail to stop it. Now the party of slavery hurls racism indiscriminately as a weapon and practices it in a more virtuous way. You guys brought back the wording of colored people not as a way to practice segregation but to promote skin color as criteria for virtue signalling. That's the exact opposite of what Dr. King dreamed of. There are, have always been, and always will be genuine racists in America. They are inconsequential. They don't matter. What went wrong is using racism as a political tool. The dems don't know what a racist is anymore. To them trying to treat people equally is racist because they believe in giving preferential treatment because of race which kind of happens to be racist. The racism you whine about is something your party makes worse. We were over this crap back in the the 2000's. Ya'll brought it back.
Who made that man a gunner?

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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sat, 30. May 20, 05:16

Masterbagger wrote:
Sat, 30. May 20, 03:13
Vertigo 7 wrote:
Fri, 29. May 20, 16:25

I would argue that a lot has changed. While racism and white supremacy has certainly seen an uptick since dear leader took office, we've also seen a record number of women of color elected to congress in the 2018 midterms. 50+ years ago, that would have been inconceivable. Another example, today, there are almost double the amount of blacks graduating from college than were even 15 years ago, even though the overall rate still remains low compared to whites.
50+ years ago the GOP rammed civil rights down the throats of flaming racist democrats that fought tooth and nail to stop it. Now the party of slavery hurls racism indiscriminately as a weapon and practices it in a more virtuous way. You guys brought back the wording of colored people not as a way to practice segregation but to promote skin color as criteria for virtue signalling. That's the exact opposite of what Dr. King dreamed of. There are, have always been, and always will be genuine racists in America. They are inconsequential. They don't matter. What went wrong is using racism as a political tool. The dems don't know what a racist is anymore. To them trying to treat people equally is racist because they believe in giving preferential treatment because of race which kind of happens to be racist. The racism you whine about is something your party makes worse. We were over this crap back in the the 2000's. Ya'll brought it back.
While you're busy sharpening your hand grenades, a few things:

A) I'm not a democrat and have no allegiance to any party or politician. I have always voted my conscience, not the way someone told me to vote. This is like the 4th or 5th time I've said this to you.
B) Republicans inherited the racists from 50+ years ago, and you know it. Stop pretending like that didn't happen.
C) I know a racist when I see one.
D) It's not democrat presidents and lawmakers that are passing on quotes from known racists and white nationalist web sites and threatening to shoot civilians. Who did, though? Oh right, Donald "Good People on Both Sides" Trump. Not a single democrat said anything remotely similar. In fact, pretty much every damn one of them urged for calm, patience, and understanding.

This little dance is beyond old. Just stop. I don't care about you or anything you have to say. You're clearly out of touch with reality and what the USA is. Consider this the final time I speak to you. I have people and things of consequence and that matter that deserve my attention.
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Re: Trump

Post by Masterbagger » Sat, 30. May 20, 05:53

Vertigo 7 wrote:
Sat, 30. May 20, 05:16

While you're busy sharpening your hand grenades, a few things:

A) I'm not a democrat and have no allegiance to any party or politician. I have always voted my conscience, not the way someone told me to vote. This is like the 4th or 5th time I've said this to you.
B) Republicans inherited the racists from 50+ years ago, and you know it. Stop pretending like that didn't happen.
C) I know a racist when I see one.
D) It's not democrat presidents and lawmakers that are passing on quotes from known racists and white nationalist web sites and threatening to shoot civilians. Who did, though? Oh right, Donald "Good People on Both Sides" Trump. Not a single democrat said anything remotely similar. In fact, pretty much every damn one of them urged for calm, patience, and understanding.

This little dance is beyond old. Just stop. I don't care about you or anything you have to say. You're clearly out of touch with reality and what the USA is. Consider this the final time I speak to you. I have people and things of consequence and that matter that deserve my attention.
I bet that I have thrown more hand grenades than you. I don't believe what you say your President did actually happened because you are still repeating a lie from the Charlottesville propaganda you were fed. I just don't believe you at all. The difference is that I don't think you are evil. I just think you are wrong. You don't act like an American should. We should be the most tolerant of free speech of any people and you act the opposite. Whoever disagrees you bully. You forget what we were meant to be.
Who made that man a gunner?

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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sat, 30. May 20, 06:01

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/election ... r-BB14IglW

I have to agree with Biden. If we're wanting North Korea and Iran to stand down, us testing more nukes isn't going to do a thing to help with that effort. Instead, it will most likely encourage them to push harder in their own development.
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Re: Trump

Post by Grim Lock » Sat, 30. May 20, 09:48

Masterbagger wrote:
Sat, 30. May 20, 05:53
You don't act like an American should. We should be the most tolerant of free speech of any people and you act the opposite. Whoever disagrees you bully. You forget what we were meant to be.
You don't act like an American should, oh yeah but Freeeeeddooommmmm ofcourse. And you say that and yet you still haven't uttered one single word of criticism on what is objectively the most intolerant vile hatred spewing piece of insanity the US has ever had in the office, Who is so cought up shifting blame for everything to others, that it's vomit inducing. And his incompetency is currently actually causing the deaths of Americans, funny, no words about that from any Trump supporters... Also, i remember you saying that pissing of democrats was one of the pros for voting for Trump, well they seem pretty pissed, but you don't seem to like it as much anymore.

Hypocrisy the red thread binding the US together.
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Re: Trump

Post by RegisterMe » Sat, 30. May 20, 11:38

https://twitter.com/ChrisBishopL1C4/sta ... 3182056453

Policeman uses some kind of pepper spray (bullet?) thing on a journalist.
I can't breathe.

- George Floyd, 25th May 2020

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Re: Trump

Post by Warenwolf » Sat, 30. May 20, 14:56

Am I the only one noticing the difference in police handling of the armed protestors storming the voting sessions on lockdown vs police handling of unarmed man (that was killed) and unarmed protestors around US? I dont mind looters/criminals being handled harshly but the difference is glaring to me. If you want to generate tensions in your country, this is the way to do it.

That being said - I am not sure Trump can be blamed 100% for this though - this is bit older than his presidency.

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Re: Trump

Post by Chips » Sat, 30. May 20, 17:17

Masterbagger wrote:
Sat, 30. May 20, 03:13
Race riots in dem cities is like reliving the obama years.
Erm, you do realise that first and foremost they're American cities with American citizens living in them, right? But the first words about it are to label them Democrat cities - ignoring either swing states or near parity in voter numbers implying near equal amounts of each political allegiance live there, as well as plenty of neither. But their politics should be utter irrelevant. So why are you bringing it in? What on earth has that got to do with it?

Something is desperately wrong when your post starts off with a political allegiance being the most important thing to state as if it's the cause. Seriously, what on earth.
RegisterMe wrote:
Sat, 30. May 20, 11:38
https://twitter.com/ChrisBishopL1C4/sta ... 3182056453

Policeman uses some kind of pepper spray (bullet?) thing on a journalist.
It will keep happening as nothing is done about it - there's zero consequence to the individuals.

https://twitter.com/CNNPR/status/1266346228851318784

Check the link, despite video evidence proving unequivocally to the contrary, the Police still spin a fricken lie about their behaviour. What happens?

In 2016 4 journalists sued Louis County (according to the reports over this arrest) for being arrested while covering unrest as well. A team got arrested this time, and another one gets pepper sprayed. If there wasn't video evidence of kneeling on that chaps throat until he was dead I imagine (like in other instances) there'd be a very very different story and closed ranks of the Police to cover up/justify it with months of pressure and investigations outside the dept finally uncovering what actually happened...

A guy died because he was suspected of handing over a fake $20 note. On what planet is that justifiable in any circumstance, let alone when he didn't resist whatsoever. It's just... I'm not surprised riots are happening. It's utterly insane. Utterly insane. The fact media are being treated as they are just reinforces the opinion the police continue to learn nothing in the US. There's something catastrophically wrong with elements of US law enforcement and it is never addressed, but instead they close ranks and cover.

That's why people are rioting Masterbagger.

For once it's something that's got nothing to do with Trump, these instances continue to happen regardless of the President. The only involvement Trump has in all this is to prove how far out of his depth and unable to empathise with the citizens of his nation he is. He is showing zero leadership.

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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sat, 30. May 20, 20:26

You are absolutely right, Chips, on every count.

I can't begin to know what it's like to be black in this country, or any minority for that matter. But I can certainly sympathize with them when I hear stories like this one from LeVar Burton where he was taught to preemptively deescalate police by rolling down the window and placing the palms of his hands against his car door when being pulled over. And if anyone thinks his is an isolated case, you couldn't be more wrong.

Other than one entrapment case, I've had my legitimate share of getting pulled over for traffic violations in states all over this country. In not one single instance did I ever wonder if that was the day that I was going to end up in jail, hurt, or killed. Again, I can't know what it's like for the minorities in this country, but I know I certainly wouldn't want to live like that, especially given the unequivocal fact that blacks, especially, and other minorities are more frequently targeted by police even when they've broken no laws what so ever.

Economically, blacks earn in the neighborhood .75 on the dollar compared to whites even when job qualifications between two candidates are identical.

Educationally, blacks are still less likely to graduate high school, compared to whites. Predominantly black schools suffer from a lack of tools, resources, and educational material. Student to teacher ratio is far higher than what you see in predominantly white schools.

Health care, blacks have a not insignificantly higher mortality rate than whites do and usually have limited access to care.

Add all of that and more up. Consider the history of how blacks have been treated and regarded in this country going back to its founding. How can anyone be surprised when yet another unarmed black man dies at the hands of people who are sworn to "Protect and Serve" and the people riot?

Yeah, it sucks that property was destroyed. I'm not condoning that. But that's far from the problem here.

People that claim equal opportunity is racism is a tired argument that usually heard from racist individuals. If anyone believes that, they've completely missed the point of equal opportunity.

Equality is ensuring every man, woman, and child is given the same opportunities in life, regardless of their gender, skin color, sexual orientation, religion, ethnic origins, or any other thing that bigots use to superficially judge people by. Not a damn one of those things define someone's character. It's not about treating someone special because they have darker color skin than you do. It's about treating them the same as you would someone that has the same color skin as you do.
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Re: Trump

Post by RegisterMe » Sat, 30. May 20, 20:54

https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

US police killed 1099 people in 2019, a disproportionate number of them people of colour.
UK police killed 3.

I just hope it doesn't take another civil war for the US to see the catharsis it so desperately needs.

Whether Trump is racist or not is kind of besides the point. As long as he continues to tweet dog whistle commentary (probably supplied by the likes of Miller) there are people in the US who will feel emboldened by it.

Either Trump is too stupid to realise this (in which case he should not be President), or he doesn't care (in which case he should not be President), or he relishes it (in which case he should not be President. He should be condemned, utterly condemned, by everybody.

How the hell is the US meant to take the moral high ground and hold China to account for its actions in Hong Kong when the US' police are busy murdering black people and locking up journalists?
I can't breathe.

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Re: Trump

Post by Masterbagger » Sat, 30. May 20, 21:33

Chips wrote:
Sat, 30. May 20, 17:17

Erm, you do realise that first and foremost they're American cities with American citizens living in them, right? But the first words about it are to label them Democrat cities - ignoring either swing states or near parity in voter numbers implying near equal amounts of each political allegiance live there, as well as plenty of neither. But their politics should be utter irrelevant. So why are you bringing it in? What on earth has that got to do with it?

Something is desperately wrong when your post starts off with a political allegiance being the most important thing to state as if it's the cause. Seriously, what on earth.
I see groups the left has spawned and supported turning protests violent. I'm watching people overtly clothed in BLM and antifa slogans break windows and start fires. I see the riots being plenty political with a bit of opportunistic looting thrown in. If I'm a bad man for saying it then so be it.
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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Sat, 30. May 20, 21:38

RegisterMe wrote:
Sat, 30. May 20, 20:54
https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/

US police killed 1099 people in 2019, a disproportionate number of them people of colour.
UK police killed 3.

I just hope it doesn't take another civil war for the US to see the catharsis it so desperately needs.
I certainly hope not. Though, since you mentioned it, Trump did threaten civil war during his impeachment.
Whether Trump is racist or not is kind of besides the point. As long as he continues to tweet dog whistle commentary (probably supplied by the likes of Miller) there are people in the US who will feel emboldened by it.

Either Trump is too stupid to realise this (in which case he should not be President), or he doesn't care (in which case he should not be President), or he relishes it (in which case he should not be President. He should be condemned, utterly condemned, by everybody.

How the hell is the US meant to take the moral high ground and hold China to account for its actions in Hong Kong when the US' police are busy murdering black people and locking up journalists?
It can't, not so long as the GOP in it's current state is running the show.

I have never felt more shame at being American than I do today.

20 years ago, I was proud of this country, enough to enlist in the Navy. We weren't at war. 9/11 was still a year and 9 months away from happening when I took my oath of enlistment. Even after the fact, I strongly considered making a career out of my service and even the possibility of seeking a commission, but I opted to move into IT instead. I've often asked myself if I should have remained in the Navy. Not because I was unsatisfied with my job, but because I believed in their mission, because I believed that this country was leading the way into a new era.

In truth, I was also ignorant of the inequities inherent in our society. I was still young. I had no idea what the country was really like, much less the world.

Today, I don't ask myself those questions any more. I could not, in good conscience, serve under this president. This country has morally regressed into something I don't recognize. Between increased pro-white activism, armed protests against public safety, unethical police practices, overt corruption of constitutional norms, clearly racially biased governmental policies, on and on, I just don't see much of anything to be proud of.

We have no moral right to demand other countries behave a certain way when we are so fundamentally morally bankrupt ourselves.
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Re: Trump

Post by Rug » Sat, 30. May 20, 23:23

Masterbagger wrote:
Sat, 30. May 20, 21:33
I see the riots being plenty political with a bit of opportunistic looting thrown in.
OK. But what do you think about the trigger for the riots ? Do you see any possible justification for the anger ?

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Re: Trump

Post by Masterbagger » Sun, 31. May 20, 01:45

Rug wrote:
Sat, 30. May 20, 23:23
Masterbagger wrote:
Sat, 30. May 20, 21:33
I see the riots being plenty political with a bit of opportunistic looting thrown in.
OK. But what do you think about the trigger for the riots ? Do you see any possible justification for the anger ?

Rug
I watched a video of a cop kneeling on Floyd's neck until he was laying dead in his own piss and keep kneeling. It's the first time I think there has been a truly universal condemnation of a death like this from everyone. But we already had the framework in place to spark riots built and funded and they are now being organized all over our cities. It got out of control. There are now deaths involved. I watched a video of an idiot dying while trying to loot a Fedex truck getting dragged underneath it as it fled a mob. People have been shot and beaten and not always by the cops. I grant that anger is justified but looting and burning is not. It isn't justice for anyone when mobs are looting stores of new TVs and smashing the cash registers with hammers before burning it down. What I'm seeing is that protests are being hijacked by terroristic groups with political goals. The anarchy symbols painted on burnt out buildings and cop cars are not being put there by anyone who is expressing speech over Floyd's death. Floyd's death was an excuse for hate groups to come out and cause chaos. I would say that I make a huge distinction between protesting and looting and support one and condemn the other. As I said before I saw antifa soy boys trying to smash windows with their flaccid girl arms. That has nothing to do with Floyd and someone organized and paid for them to be where they are.
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Re: Trump

Post by RegisterMe » Sun, 31. May 20, 02:16

Masterbagger wrote:
Sun, 31. May 20, 01:45
Rug wrote:
Sat, 30. May 20, 23:23
Masterbagger wrote:
Sat, 30. May 20, 21:33
I see the riots being plenty political with a bit of opportunistic looting thrown in.
OK. But what do you think about the trigger for the riots ? Do you see any possible justification for the anger ?

Rug
I watched a video of a cop kneeling on Floyd's neck until he was laying dead in his own piss and keep kneeling. It's the first time I think there has been a truly universal condemnation of a death like this from everyone. But we already had the framework in place to spark riots built and funded and they are now being organized all over our cities. It got out of control. There are now deaths involved. I watched a video of an idiot dying while trying to loot a Fedex truck getting dragged underneath it as it fled a mob. People have been shot and beaten and not always by the cops. I grant that anger is justified but looting and burning is not. It isn't justice for anyone when mobs are looting stores of new TVs and smashing the cash registers with hammers before burning it down. What I'm seeing is that protests are being hijacked by terroristic groups with political goals. The anarchy symbols painted on burnt out buildings and cop cars are not being put there by anyone who is expressing speech over Floyd's death. Floyd's death was an excuse for hate groups to come out and cause chaos. I would say that I make a huge distinction between protesting and looting and support one and condemn the other. As I said before I saw antifa soy boys trying to smash windows with their flaccid girl arms. That has nothing to do with Floyd and someone organized and paid for them to be where they are.
Read that back to yourself, then look at yourself in the mirror. Look long and hard.

Who do you see?
I can't breathe.

- George Floyd, 25th May 2020

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Re: Trump

Post by RegisterMe » Sun, 31. May 20, 02:49

https://www.courthousenews.com/minnesot ... ist-groups

Now I can't attest to the validity of this, but it strikes me as... relevant.
I can't breathe.

- George Floyd, 25th May 2020

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Re: Trump

Post by Masterbagger » Sun, 31. May 20, 03:00

RegisterMe wrote:
Sun, 31. May 20, 02:16

Read that back to yourself, then look at yourself in the mirror. Look long and hard.

Who do you see?
My ugly mug is no better or worse than yours. I stand by what I say. If you have a beef lay it out in plain words so we can deal with it. I give you enough respect to at the minimum listen if you take a different approach than this.
Who made that man a gunner?

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