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Vertigo 7
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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Wed, 9. Oct 19, 15:03

As a side note, a week or so ago I reached out to Senator Shelby (R-AL), and asked him to listen to the better half of his conscience and put the United States ahead of the republican party regarding the impeachment of Trump as well as to remind Senator Graham of his words on Trump in 2015 where he referred to Trump as a "race-bating xenophobic bigot", which we all know hasn't changed.

I got a reply this morning, mostly expected fluff, but he didn't once defend Trump, or indicate any disdain for the impeachment inquiry. In fact, he simply said "...The House of Representatives has the “sole power of impeachment.” As such, it is the responsibility of the House to introduce and adopt articles of impeachment..." further explaining the entire process, which I already knew, but okay. Point is he didn't voice any attempts to play off the inquiry as "unconstitutional" or "illegitimate" or any of the other disparities coming out of the White House.

His last paragraph contained the following:

"When I was sworn in as your United States Senator, I took an oath to support and defend the United States Constitution. I play a role in writing and passing our laws as a member of Congress, but I have never considered myself or other government officials to be above the law. Like you, I believe that the ethical conduct of government officials is critical to securing the public’s trust, which is necessary to maintaining a well-functioning democracy. If we expect the people of the United States to abide by the laws of this country, they must have confidence in the government officials who enforce them. Please know that I take these reports very seriously, and I will keep your concerns in mind as I continue to closely monitor this issue."

I know politicians are full of double talk and bs, blah blah blah. Maybe, just maybe, the senate republicans know they're in a shit position; they're not blind to Trump having screwed them over. I'm seriously thinking there's enough dissent among the senate republicans that when this goes to trial, they want the house to give them cause to remove Trump so they can go back to the press after all is said and done and say "Look, this wasn't about being a republican. The evidence against Trump was overwhelming. He left us no choice."

Maybe that's why they're being so silent on this? I mean, ya, Mitch and a couple of others are going to do whatever Trump says. But maybe the rest of the republicans aren't as keen to bow to his whims.

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BugMeister
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Re: Trump

Post by BugMeister » Wed, 9. Oct 19, 15:52

The longer the process of impeachment takes, the worse it gets for Trump and his family..
As long as the spotlight remains on him, he has nowhere to hide..

- it's just a matter of time..

Severe financial penalties should be applied on those individuals who refuse to comply with official subpoenas, as is normal in such cases..
Each of them should be publicly censured for their actions, and where necessary they should be barred from holding public office in future..

Rudy Colludy should share a cell with Paul Manafort - will he get the top bunk..?? :lol:
Last edited by BugMeister on Wed, 9. Oct 19, 16:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Vertigo 7
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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Wed, 9. Oct 19, 16:06

oh there is not a doubt in my mind that those who are willfully abetting Trump's refusal to comply will get theirs. The scope of the impeachment can only directly go after Trump, but Barr and Pompeo and the like will get criminally charged after Trump is dealt with.

It wouldn't do much good to target them now, Trump would just pardon it away and double jeopardy would apply. Afterwards, though... I doubt Pence would go out on a limb for either of them and offer a pardon.

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Re: Trump

Post by Bishop149 » Wed, 9. Oct 19, 16:09

BugMeister wrote:
Wed, 9. Oct 19, 15:52
Severe financial penalties should be applied on those individuals who refuse to comply with official subpoenas, as is normal in such cases..
Each of them should be publicly censured for their actions, and where necessary they should be barred from holding public office in future..
Chelsea Manning was imprisoned for refusing to comply with a subpoena from a Grand Jury.
The current stage of the impeachment enquiry being comparable in many ways to a Grand Jury I see no reason why the same rules shouldn't apply in both cases
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felter
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Re: Trump

Post by felter » Wed, 9. Oct 19, 16:26

BugMeister wrote:
Wed, 9. Oct 19, 15:52
Rudy Colludy should share a cell with Paul Manafort - will he get the top bunk..?? :lol:
The top bunk, do you think he would actually be able to get up onto the top bunk.
I'm not saying he is a Russian asset, I'm saying he sat on his asset when he was supposed to be confronting Putin.
He will not be re-elected. Without a wall, he will only be remembered as a small cartoon figure who briefly inflamed and amused the rabble.

Vertigo 7
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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Wed, 9. Oct 19, 17:00

felter wrote:
Wed, 9. Oct 19, 16:26
BugMeister wrote:
Wed, 9. Oct 19, 15:52
Rudy Colludy should share a cell with Paul Manafort - will he get the top bunk..?? :lol:
The top bunk, do you think he would actually be able to get up onto the top bunk.
They could always share the bed and Rudy could pretend Manafort is his cousin/ex-wife.

Vertigo 7
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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Thu, 10. Oct 19, 02:35

So Trump claims 25% support his impeachment. He either made that number up or he asked Melania, Eric, Don, and Ivanka if they wanted him impeached.

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felter
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Re: Trump

Post by felter » Thu, 10. Oct 19, 03:24

25% sounds about right as far as I have read, but that is for how many think an impeachment should be happening, meanwhile there is also roughly a 30% count on those that think an inquiry should be happening, put the two together and you get 55% in favor of an impeachment moving forward. So he got roughly part of it right, he just forgot to add on the other part. And by the by that is a minimum %, also a minimum is the count of 1 in 5 Republicans in favour of impeachment. Not looking good for him at all.
I'm not saying he is a Russian asset, I'm saying he sat on his asset when he was supposed to be confronting Putin.
He will not be re-elected. Without a wall, he will only be remembered as a small cartoon figure who briefly inflamed and amused the rabble.

Vertigo 7
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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Thu, 10. Oct 19, 04:34

I'm not seeing the same things. every news agency, including fox, are reporting polls showing now 51% in favor of impeachment and removal, closer to 60% just on the inquiry.

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Masterbagger
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Re: Trump

Post by Masterbagger » Thu, 10. Oct 19, 05:13

red assassin wrote:
Wed, 9. Oct 19, 12:09
I think it's utterly fascinating that some people continue to argue with a straight face that there's anything irregular about the inquiry, that the whistleblower lacks credibility, is partisan, or isn't a first-hand witness, etc. The partial call record that the White House released alone is arguably impeachable conduct, and at the very least is probable cause for further investigation and supports the whistleblower's allegations. Also already public are text messages like these: 'Heard from White House - assuming President Z convinces Trump he will investigate / "get to the bottom of what happened" in 2016, we will nail down date for visit to Washington.' "Are we now saying that security assistance and WH meeting are conditioned on investigations?" "I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign."
This is the text of the whistleblower complaint. You in particular need to read this.

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploaded ... nclass.pdf

This is the text of the transcript.

https://www.scribd.com/document/4273988 ... from_embed

What I know in addition to this is that it began as a leak to Schiff. He knew before it went to the IG and lied about knowing. The IG has just changed it's rules to allow secondhand reporting which this is. In their own words this accuser admits they did not hear the call and that is right there in that first link. Hearsay and Schiff. When you have listened to Schiff repeatedly lie about Russia hysteria the pieces fall into place to view it as a manufactured crisis from an organization that profits from the resulting chaos and interference in next years campaign.

As for the text messages did you read them all? And with context? You quote an exchange between Bill Taylor and Gordon Sondland but only one side of it. I noticed that. It advances your aims here and leaves out the part where the reply was Trump was clear on not offering a quid pro quo.
Who made that man a gunner?

Vertigo 7
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Re: Trump

Post by Vertigo 7 » Thu, 10. Oct 19, 05:26

You think we haven't read it? I can't speak for the others but I've read both cover to cover and all of the published text messages, as well as heard Trump's asks of China and Ukraine. I don't know why you think your president is okay.

I'll give you points for loyalty, but I'll subtract a ton for it being to Trump instead of the country. Spin and deflect all you want. Your president betrayed his oath of office and broke the law.

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red assassin
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Re: Trump

Post by red assassin » Thu, 10. Oct 19, 10:06

Masterbagger wrote:
Thu, 10. Oct 19, 05:13
This is the text of the whistleblower complaint. You in particular need to read this.

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploaded ... nclass.pdf

This is the text of the transcript.

https://www.scribd.com/document/4273988 ... from_embed

What I know in addition to this is that it began as a leak to Schiff. He knew before it went to the IG and lied about knowing. The IG has just changed it's rules to allow secondhand reporting which this is. In their own words this accuser admits they did not hear the call and that is right there in that first link. Hearsay and Schiff. When you have listened to Schiff repeatedly lie about Russia hysteria the pieces fall into place to view it as a manufactured crisis from an organization that profits from the resulting chaos and interference in next years campaign.

As for the text messages did you read them all? And with context? You quote an exchange between Bill Taylor and Gordon Sondland but only one side of it. I noticed that. It advances your aims here and leaves out the part where the reply was Trump was clear on not offering a quid pro quo.
I have read both. What precisely do you think is in the transcript that disproves anything the whistleblower said?

I also think it's fascinating you said I've only quoted one side of the text exchange. My first quote is Volker being quite explicit about a demand for quid pro quo. The other two are indeed Taylor, but he doesn't appear to be any more reassured by the denials from Sondland than I am. You can't just declare "no quid pro quo!" while demanding stuff that's clearly quid pro quo. I'm not saying you have to believe from this exchange alone that there was quid pro quo - but I am suggesting that 1) given 2/3 parties seem to pretty clearly think there is, it's at the very least probable cause for an investigation 2) even if there's not quid pro quo here it's a direct abuse of presidential power to demand politically useful election interference from a foreign country, which is also illegal.
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Re: Trump

Post by RegisterMe » Thu, 10. Oct 19, 11:55

Compare and contrast how the Obama administration responded to the eight Congressional inquiries into Benghazi with how the Trump administration has responded, to date, with the various impeachment inquiries.

People like Pompeo who actively "prosecuted" the Benghazi inquiries, interviewing Clinton etc, are now refusing to appear.

The hypocrisy is amazing.
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BugMeister
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Re: Trump

Post by BugMeister » Thu, 10. Oct 19, 12:02

It's high time that the "opinion" suggesting that a sitting president cannot be indicted while in office, was examined closely..
It was an opinion actively supported by that kreep Brett Kavanaugh - it's how and why he got his position on the bench..

- it remains an OPINION - it must be reviewed urgently as matter of national security..

Especially while this fakery exists:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8AxAvh3-ck
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Bishop149
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Re: Trump

Post by Bishop149 » Thu, 10. Oct 19, 12:22

Masterbagger wrote:
Thu, 10. Oct 19, 05:13
I know in addition to this is that it began as a leak to Schiff. He knew before it went to the IG and lied about knowing. The IG has just changed it's rules to allow secondhand reporting which this is. In their own words this accuser admits they did not hear the call and that is right there in that first link. Hearsay and Schiff. When you have listened to Schiff repeatedly lie about Russia hysteria the pieces fall into place to view it as a manufactured crisis from an organization that profits from the resulting chaos and interference in next years campaign.
All rendered completely irrelevant by the fact the President called on both Ukraine and China to investigate the Bidens LIVE ON TELEVISION.
The fact the whistle-blowers information alleging the same was 2nd hand is moot in light of the fact we now have not one but TWO (the second being the transcript Trump so helpfully released) primary sources confirming the most impeachable allegations to be 100% true . . . . . from no less than Mr Trumps own mouth.
I'm genuinely stunned that you (or anyone) can still be trying call shenanigans in light of this.
But then I suppose any sane person who took Trump at face value or actually listened to the words that fall from his pie-hole (often by accident I suspect) wouldn't ever vote for him, so I maybe it makes some sense.
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