Trump

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BugMeister
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Re: Trump

Post by BugMeister » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 16:32

Trump.. :lol:
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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fiksal
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Re: Trump

Post by fiksal » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 17:51

BugMeister wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 16:32
Trump.. :lol:
We all watch the same sources, we all know exactly what Trump is. And if someone forgets, he reminds us this every day. I am not sure what's the argument here really.

Is Trump a monster? Are white nationalists and white supremacists, or are they just rotten? Dont matter to me which word we use.

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Re: Trump

Post by Bishop149 » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 17:59

fiksal wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 17:51
BugMeister wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 16:32
Trump.. :lol:
We all watch the same sources, we all know exactly what Trump is. And if someone forgets, he reminds us this every day. I am not sure what's the argument here really.

Is Trump a monster? Are white nationalists and white supremacists, or are they just rotten? Dont matter to me which word we use.
This is what staggers me about this line of argument.

Other politicians are subtle, they distract, talk in half truths, double speak, dog whistles, non-commitments etc etc. With such people the "You have just misunderstood them" line is at least plausible, their very way of speaking is designed to give them this armour of plausible deniability.
Not so with Trump, he engages in such things superficially (probably when told to by others) but more often than not he clearly an unambiguously displays EXACTLY what and who he is on a near minute by minute basis. And yet people will STILL grant him the grace of being misunderstood.
I'll give him this much, he was absolutely right when he said he could shoot someone in broad daylight and not lose one iota of support from certain demographics. . . . in fact he'd probably pick up a bit.
"Shoot for the Moon. If you miss, you'll end up co-orbiting the Sun alongside Earth, living out your days alone in the void within sight of the lush, welcoming home you left behind." - XKCD

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Hank001
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Re: Trump

Post by Hank001 » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 18:27

Bishop149:
I'll give him this much, he was absolutely right when he said he could shoot someone in broad daylight and not lose one iota of support from certain demographics. . . . in fact he'd probably pick up a bit.
Truth is that the "Republican" (Quotes because they are now really the Trump Nationalist Party) lawmakers have little or no control over him because he goes off on anybody who attempts to contradict, disagree or even look at him wrong. They are scared he'll finally go off the deep end and force them to evoke the 25th Amendment and all look like idiots for letting a madman loose in 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. I'd imagine his "I love me, ain't I great?" press conference debacle yesterday had them chewing their nails because he's starting to show his true colors and loosing some of his fear of confontation. If he's finally growing a pair he's apt to start butting heads with them even if they are tip-toeing around him like a live bomb with a hair trigger.

Now Trump knows as soon as the new congress is installed next year he's toast Mueller or no Mueller. One look at his tax records might be enough, so he's got to make some serious moves before January. If he can quash the Mueller probe before it can get to him and his then that leaves making sure that the Democrat controlled congress either never comes to be or is too scared to touch him. Make no mistake, he's very much an animal backed into a corner and the next two months are going to get nasty. You're going to see some unprecidented dirtiness. But, the more and harder he fights and lashes out the more fuel he's adding to the fire building under him.
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Observe
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Re: Trump

Post by Observe » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 18:29

fiksal wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 17:51
Is Trump a monster? Are white nationalists and white supremacists, or are they just rotten? Dont matter to me which word we use.
How about the word "human". That's what they are. That's what we all are. We are all products of nature. If we hate a person, we are hating nature and that means we are suffering from self-loathing and only making things worse. Nothing wrong with recognizing hatred, but let's not lower ourselves by partaking of that poison ourselves.

It's a violent universe, full of destruction and the misery of suffering all around. That's a fact. Now, what do we do about it? Do we roll in the garbage and offal of hatred, or do we see it for what it is and look for a way out of it?

I am sorry if my words offend. They are not directed at anyone in particular. Thanks.

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Morkonan
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Re: Trump

Post by Morkonan » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 21:46

fiksal wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 17:51
...Is Trump a monster? Are white nationalists and white supremacists, or are they just rotten? Dont matter to me which word we use.
If you want to be guilty of falling into the same trap that some very fervent Trump supporters may have fallen into, then this is the line of thinking you should take.

He's not a "monster." He's just incredibly Trumpish... Absolutely, he has flaws that, IMO, make him unworthy of the office. But, it seems the longer that he's in office, the more extreme the opinions against him get. We have to take the same care there as we do when criticizing any opposing opinions - Stick to the facts, what happened, what is in evidence, and don't jump feet-first into the sea of radically polarized opinion. And, of course, don't dehumanize people for their beliefs. No matter how obnoxious or repulsive their beliefs are, they're still "human." Clansmen/women/whatever/ are human, too. They eat, poop, have babies and love their families... but are horribly misguided.

Trump is a man-child who is apparently used to being an Emperor and doesn't understand why that longer works.

PS - Counter to what some on the far-left are trying to say, a white person who is a "nationalist" is not, necessarily, a racist. Left-wing propaganda is trying to redefine "white" "nationalists" as "White Nationalists" in an effort to present a more outrageous case against Trump. Being a "nationalist" is bad enough, IMO, but there's no need to start throwing images of the KKK at it.

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Re: Trump

Post by RegisterMe » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 22:12

Though I do wonder why he describes himself as a nationalist rather than, say, a patriot. The word "nationalist" has much more negative baggage associated with it.....

EDIT: And he, or at least his staff, can't be ignorant of that.
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Hank001
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Re: Trump

Post by Hank001 » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 22:56

RegisterMe posed;
And he, or at least his staff, can't be ignorant of that.
Hardly. Trump and his minions found it the perfect dog whistle. That way he "Nationalism" was so far off the dictionary as to be absurd and it really rang all the redneck bells and set every liberal's teeth on edge. So millions heard it, got off their tractors and out of their pickup trucks long enough to load up their guns and stood on their porches waiting for those mythical hoards of liberal mobs and caravan immigrants to show up in their yards so they could have an excuse to shoot em' dead.

All I can say is it worked and Trump's 100 excursions to a fro from his, "Love Me" rallies probably only cost us a billion or so since you KNOW he didn't pay for it and he thinks everybody elses money is his piggy bank to raid at will.

Ten years ago I'd have said jingoism and demagoguery were dead concepts. Seems Trump dug them up from the grave (or simply called them up from Hell) and breathed new life into them. Zeig Hiel... Oops sorry, Lock Her Up...
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fiksal
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Re: Trump

Post by fiksal » Thu, 8. Nov 18, 23:56

Observe wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 18:29
How about the word "human". That's what they are. That's what we all are. We are all products of nature.
We have many colorful words in all our languages, what's the benefit of not using them and sticking to generic " human"?

Or is your point same as Morks, not to dehumanize them?

Morkonan wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 21:46

He's not a "monster." He's just incredibly Trumpish...
The first one is a high mark summing up people's perceptions. The second one sounds like a childish name for someone who is just a silly and friendly.

I mean, we can just meet in the middle and call him "evil". No hate or emotions on my part, just looking for a good word.


Speaking of dehumanizing though. I am not 100% sure this is a concern, - am I wrong?
Left-wing propaganda is trying to redefine "white" "nationalists" as "White Nationalists" in an effort to present a more outrageous case against Trump. Being a "nationalist" is bad enough, IMO, but there's no need to start throwing images of the KKK at it.
Fair, that happens. It's incredibly hard to separate them though, and figure out where they disagree and how it's relevant.

EDIT: or in other words, I am not sure I've met any "white" nationalists who were explicitly not exclusive
Last edited by fiksal on Fri, 9. Nov 18, 03:10, edited 1 time in total.

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BugMeister
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Re: Trump

Post by BugMeister » Fri, 9. Nov 18, 01:00

authoritarianism in action - Trump reveals his true nature
this man is full of hatred and fear, and unwilling to listen to anyone who contradicts his idiocy..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Emv7p-DRwQ

- he's completely unstable, and therefore unfit for office..
- SUCH a nasty person..!! :o :o
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Re: Trump

Post by Masterbagger » Fri, 9. Nov 18, 03:49

eladan wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 10:43
Masterbagger wrote:
Thu, 8. Nov 18, 05:34
If you make President Trump a monster in your own mind he is going to live there rent free forever. Stop doing that and let that personal investment in attacking him and the people who voted for him go.
He didn't make Trump a monster. Trump has shown himself to be a monster. Repeatedly, and proudly.
There are millions of people who do not feel that way and they are currently directing the course of our government. No amount of hatred toward President Trump is going to change that he is the President. The only way to prevent this man from being reelected is to determine what it is that people who voted for him want from government. Democrats will not achieve this. They are stuck on hating President Trump and they can't move past that bias to a point where they could negotiate effectively with the man who literally wrote the book on making deals.
Who made that man a gunner?

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Observe
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Re: Trump

Post by Observe » Fri, 9. Nov 18, 04:34

Words changed in following quote:
Masterbagger wrote:
Fri, 9. Nov 18, 03:49
There are millions of people who do not feel that way and they are currently directing the course of our government. No amount of hatred toward President Trump/Obama is going to change that he is the President. The only way to prevent this man from being reelected is to determine what it is that people who voted for him want from government. Democrats/Republicans will not achieve this. They are stuck on hating President Trump/Obama and they can't move past that bias
I never ceases to amuse me, how everything you say is exactly the same as what your opposition says; with name/party words changed. I can't help but wonder if you see your enemy when you look in the mirror. Surely the irony of your position does not escape you?

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Re: Trump

Post by RegisterMe » Fri, 9. Nov 18, 05:01

Masterbagger wrote:
Fri, 9. Nov 18, 03:49
.....the man who literally wrote the book on making deals.
Errr, no, he didn't. His ghost writer, Tony Schwartz, literally did.
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Observe
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Re: Trump

Post by Observe » Fri, 9. Nov 18, 05:15

RegisterMe wrote:
Fri, 9. Nov 18, 05:01
Masterbagger wrote:
Fri, 9. Nov 18, 03:49
.....the man who literally wrote the book on making deals.
Errr, no, he didn't. His ghost writer, Tony Schwartz, literally did.
Good counterpoint RegisterMe. :)
Although in truth, Tony only wrote half of it and he is on record as regretting his participation. Moreover, on the basis of having spent 18 months virtually camping out with Trump, Mr Schwartz thinks that Trump is in full meltdown. He goes on to say:
“I believe the republic is at enormous risk that goes far beyond what most journalists are comfortable saying and what the general public therefore – it doesn’t really fully understand,” he said. He added: “We are in a true emergency.”
I am afraid your would-be emperor hero has no clothes. :)

Bishop149
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Re: Trump

Post by Bishop149 » Fri, 9. Nov 18, 13:21

Masterbagger wrote:
Fri, 9. Nov 18, 03:49
The only way to prevent this man from being reelected is to determine what it is that people who voted for him want from government.
Not necessary, because Trump is not going to be able to give those people what they want (and nor, incidentally, will anyone else).
Firstly because what they want is almost impossible*, and secondly because Mr Trump (the arch capitalist) has ZERO interest in changing an single damn thing that would benefit anyone except himself.
The only substantive thing he has done in office is to give his own class and massive wealth boost, funded by taking things away from the American people.
It might take a long time for the blinkers to fall off these "millions of people" but I'd wager they will eventually, and then backlash will be huge.
Masterbagger wrote:
Fri, 9. Nov 18, 03:49
. . . . the man who literally wrote the book on making deals.
I would suggest you read that book, understand the Trumpian philosophy on "deal making", how he has applied it across his career and what his objectives have been.
Then ask yourself: "Is this a man I'd trust to run my country"

*Or at the very least it is not possible without those same people paying the price of enduring an extended period of hardship and conflict whilst the economy is torn down and restructured, which they won't.
"Shoot for the Moon. If you miss, you'll end up co-orbiting the Sun alongside Earth, living out your days alone in the void within sight of the lush, welcoming home you left behind." - XKCD

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