[MOD] Updated: 1/7/06 "M6 upgrade mod(/w cockpits/restored models)"

[Mehrunes]

Updated on 12/20/05.

Restored models of the following craft:
Argon Nova all variants.
Argon Discover standard model and all variants.
(As a result, all Discoverers are reduced to 4 forward guns)
Boron Barracuda all variants.
Paranid Perseus variant 2.

P.S. You're killing the frames with that pic, Shoe.

edit: Note that all Discoverers will be reduced from 6 to 4 guns now that they use the actual model instead of the Buster's model.

[Sandalpocalypse]

okay i dumped it..even though i resized it an everything! *cries*

[CO. Dragon Corp]

I got two questions:

1.) Will this work with savegames / running game or do I need to start a new game? From what I've read here at the pinboards you always have to start a new game when you modify the ships, but I'm not giving up hope .

2.) Are you willing to make...let's call it a more realistic version of your mod? Imho it's a little bit overdone, a corvette with 6 turrets and stuff . Maybe two to three turrets each are really enough

As it is christmas, maybe I can give you some kind of wish-list . Keep cool, it's really short:

- changed corvettes: Centaur untouched, the rest of 'em: +1 turret each


That's all I need . Could you do it?

But....in case your answer to my first question is "NO", then just ignore my request.

[Sandalpocalypse]

actually you never have to start a new game. the problem is that existing ships will use the old stats while new ships will use the new stats. so over time the game universe will gradually convert to the new stats. but it IS kind of weird, particularly of stats are radically modified, which is why people recommend restarting.

Which brings up the point - is there an Armageddon Script out there which will systematically trash the entire universe's ships?

CODC I could throw you my TShips file which is based on mehrunes but does has more limited turrets. For the most part that just means one gun per turretdummy instead of 2 and with more limited weaponry (different cockpits). But it is very much a work in progress atm.

[CO. Dragon Corp]

actually you never have to start a new game. the problem is that existing ships will use the old stats while new ships will use the new stats. so over time the game universe will gradually convert to the new stats. but it IS kind of weird, particularly of stats are radically modified, which is why people recommend restarting.

Which brings up the point - is there an Armageddon Script out there which will systematically trash the entire universe's ships?

CODC I could throw you my TShips file which is based on mehrunes but does has more limited turrets. For the most part that just means one gun per turretdummy instead of 2 and with more limited weaponry (different cockpits). But it is very much a work in progress atm.

Then take your time and finish it .

BTW: How did you solve the problem that turrets added via text changes have no cockpit? I read somewhere that the only solution to solve this is to edit the model and to add real modelled turrets to the model...

[Sandalpocalypse]

You need to add a Cameradummy part at a higher number than the turretdummy parts, then assign a Turret to the part, then assign the guns to the Turret on the turretdummy parts.

[CO. Dragon Corp]

You need to add a Cameradummy part at a higher number than the turretdummy parts, then assign a Turret to the part, then assign the guns to the Turret on the turretdummy parts.

Ah, I see. Good to know that you scripters finally found a way to solve the "problem" .

/edit: Last question: Now that I know that it is possible to add working turrets via text file I have to ask if these turrets are really there....I mean can you see them as new turret models on the hull of the M6?

[-XTM-]

Mehrunes,

I'm almost done adding aft-turrets back to all Falcon versions ingame.
Do you want them in? (personally I think all Falcons were meant to have rearturrets since they were already modelled-in and they are just too must of sitting ducks without them anyway)

Also, if there's much animo for a somewhat more realistic/balanced version of this Mod (whatever suits your needs), I'd be willing to maintain that one.

Atm I find that with this upgrade it tends to make m6's rather too much of invincibles but balancing them out will probably proof to be somewhat of a challenge.

My ultimate Goal is to end up with one whopping -redone all ships mod- in which any race (many ships) becomes at least a little more attractive to play with.
I'd very much like to work together with people on this but if there's noone answering this call I'll do it by myself anyway.

[Sandalpocalypse]

yes the turretdummies are there. but they are small and have a very low LoD threshold, so you can't see all the turretdummies on a craft at once even zoomed all the way in. you will have to rotate.

i should mention most of the WiP aspect is focused on me adding custom NPC ships. The M6s are probably balanced. THere's a few other changes in it, like tougher shields on some of the TLs and a funkified nova sentinel. I accidentally deleted my changelog though so who knows.

[CO. Dragon Corp]

yes the turretdummies are there. but they are small and have a very low LoD threshold, so you can't see all the turretdummies on a craft at once even zoomed all the way in. you will have to rotate.

i should mention most of the WiP aspect is focused on me adding custom NPC ships. The M6s are probably balanced. THere's a few other changes in it, like tougher shields on some of the TLs and a funkified nova sentinel. I accidentally deleted my changelog though so who knows.

Mhm....that's a little much of a change for me.

Ah...maybe, when I really can't go on with the unmodded M6 I'll decide to try to mod it myself. Can't be too difficult, right?

[Mehrunes]

CO. Dragon Corp: You don't need to restart your game. Old corvettes won't get the upgrades, but I included a script that you can use to replace all your M6s with new ones with all their hardware intact.

Everyone: Corvettes overpowered? Perish the thought! I thought that, since fighters have 4 times as many guns as they used to (and capital ships have twice as many) then corvettes should have 4 times as many in it's turrets as well. This gives M3s 8 guns apiece (fighter guns, that is), corvettes around 20 (still fighter guns, with the exception of the Xenon P's forward guns) and capitals have 40 capital class guns (these should be 3 or 4 times as powerful as fighter class weapons, but capital class anti-fighter weapons are underperforming).

If 3 or more M3s can't take out an M6 I'd be surprised. They should have enough firepower to wipe one out on the first pass. Most of the corvettes can't retaliate with more than 8 guns in any particular direction (the P still doesn't have turrets at all) except for the Hydra which has 12 guns on top but is completely vulnerable from the bottom. Simply put, anything less than this should make an M6 incapable of denting M3s. Also, none of the corvettes have anywhere near enough firepower to take out a station or capital ship with guns alone so they're in no danger of replacing M2s anytime soon.

It sounds theoretically balanced to me. Is the problem that the AI's just too dumb to fly M3s against corvetts with anything resembling skill? Can you guys can still solo corvettes with an M3?

Moxy: Not sure what you mean by adding rear turrets to "all falcon variants". My TShips file shows that the variants already have rear turrets except for the pirate versions. It's the standard version that's missing a rear turret, which I'll add back in. I don't think people would be too happy about fighting pirate falcons with rear-facing Alpha PSGs though, so I'm not changing them.

[CO. Dragon Corp]

CO. Dragon Corp: You don't need to restart your game. Old corvettes won't get the upgrades, but I included a script that you can use to replace all your M6s with new ones with all their hardware intact.

Everyone: Corvettes overpowered? Perish the thought! I thought that, since fighters have 4 times as many guns as they used to (and capital ships have twice as many) then corvettes should have 4 times as many in it's turrets as well. This gives M3s 8 guns apiece (fighter guns, that is), corvettes around 20 (still fighter guns, with the exception of the Xenon P's forward guns) and capitals have 40 capital class guns (these should be 3 or 4 times as powerful as fighter class weapons, but capital class anti-fighter weapons are underperforming).

If 3 or more M3s can't take out an M6 I'd be surprised. They should have enough firepower to wipe one out on the first pass. Most of the corvettes can't retaliate with more than 8 guns in any particular direction (the P still doesn't have turrets at all) except for the Hydra which has 12 guns on top but is completely vulnerable from the bottom. Simply put, anything less than this should make an M6 incapable of denting M3s. Also, none of the corvettes have anywhere near enough firepower to take out a station or capital ship with guns alone so they're in no danger of replacing M2s anytime soon.

It sounds theoretically balanced to me. Is the problem that the AI's just too dumb to fly M3s against corvetts with anything resembling skill? Can you guys can still solo corvettes with an M3?

Thanks for the info, it makes sense.

But..ehrm...what script are you talking about? This script? I thought Sandalpocalypse did it...

Also, the info you gave, about the balanced corvettes, is it the script that I can download on page 1 --> post 1?

/edit: UUUUUUPS Sorry, for some reason I thought Sandalpocalypse did it because he answered my questions. Sorry for that misunderstanding. I got it now and will try your mod out!

[Mehrunes]

Thanks for the info, it makes sense.

But..ehrm...what script are you talking about? This script? I thought Sandalpocalypse did it...

There's a pair of scripts in the scripts\ directory of the mod that you need to put in the game's scripts\ directory if you want to use them. Their use is explained in the readme.

[Sandalpocalypse]

hi mehrunes. my early tests scrimmaging against HEPT corvettes showed that m3s equipped with HEPTs typically engaged from far enough away that corvettes could not hit the m3s but the m3s could consistently hit the corvettes.

[NZ-Wanderer]

First off, thank you for the mod.. - Makes it worthwhile again to own an M6

One little query tho.. - You increased the shields on all ships EXCEPT the Split... - This leaves the split ship the weakest out of the lot which is a pity as I really like the look of it - 2 shields on an M6 to mee is not enuff even if it is the fastest...

[Mehrunes]

It's the fastest by quite a large margin. It can outrun M3s and quite a few M4s so I decided that an extra shield was uncalled for. I know what it's like though, having had to rely on the Mamba Raider's piddly 25mw shields for quite some time.


Update: Reconnected the Falcon's rear turret (it was already there on the model, but there was no turret set for it in the TShips file.)

[NZ-Wanderer]

Fair enuff..

I have settled on the Paranid M6, as I did a test last night with the Paranid and Argon M6's by turning the whole of Argon Prime against me...

It was a amazing battle, and until I came up against the M2 and M1's I was holding my own in both ships.. - But I found that the Paranid one was slightly better at keeping its shields than the Argon one (Couldn't test the other M6's as my race rank wasn't high enuff)

[-XTM-]

I meant the standard Falcon and the pirate ones.
Rearturrets with psg's?, no don't think so either, that's why I gave them AHEPT's, which can even be tuned down to the standard p-falcon BPAC and the Vanguard A-HEPT, or whatever....my point was that I suspect they were all meant to have rear turrets, like the Nova's.

I think it's only fair to do this, the Falcon and the Pirate Falcon are with ease the weakest M3's in the game...they're hardly a challenge With the aft-turret enabled, it's pitch/yaw rate is that of a cow anyway.

Too bad you think otherwise, but np anyway.

[Mehrunes]

I like the Pirate Falcon the way it is as it allows new pilots to ease their way into combat and ship capturing. The Pirate Nova's rear HEPT can clean your clock when you're still in a Buster. I don't think the Falcon's are a complete loss though. The Sentinel at least can mount 250mw worth of shields which could make it ideal for cap ship escort.

[CO. Dragon Corp]

Ok, I tested your Mod a bit and it really kicks /\SS!

As the previous speaker said, now it's really worth to own an M6. Before they were really weak, because of their low firepower (in comparision to an M3) + their low turning rate and low speed. Like an underarmed moving target .

THANK YOU!

PS: I don't think the Nemesis needs a 4th shield bay. But...why are you talking of only 2 shield bays, NZ-Wanderer? If Mehrunes didn't change the Nemesis shield bays it should still have three...(regarding to a ship toc I know)