Current Bugs and Issues List

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Armegeddon
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Post by Armegeddon » Fri, 14. Apr 06, 07:20

Nah, I was having a really bad day when I posted that other one and you're comments just pushed me over the top in that thread.

Yeah, some of the devs decisions do seem strange to most of the players, but I have to guess they had their reasons for most of them. Either due to not having time to fully implement due to the deadline, requiring extensive modifications to the game engine, or a background story issue.
The tractor beam probably could use a range increase. I personally haven't used it too much, so haven't run into problems YET.
I think its up to Egosoft to put permanent solutions to bugs in place. The fact that a partial solution has been scripted is not a reason for them to ignore it.
That's where the dilemma comes in. We can't know whether something is a bug or a design decision unless the devs respond to it, and they aren't likely to do that in this section of the forums. You can get a hint if it's a bug or not by posting it to the tech support forum, and if a dev/moderator replies (which I wouldn't count on), their response will usually give you an idea if it was a bug or deliberate.

I believ Cr4Fty is referring to something that occasionaly happens when switching ship, especially if the ships have recently been in combat. Since there is a global Friend-Foe list, and each ship has it's own individual Friend-Foe list, sometimes a ship that was recently in a fight will have a race in it's FF list that is listed as Foe, even though the global one has them as a friend. This usally occurs after a fight if the ship that the player is transferring to was hit repeatatly by friendly fire, or hit a friendly ship several times. When that happens, depending on what was hit/doing the hitting, they may "hold a grudge" and consider the player an enemy, or the ship may consider them an enemy until the player comms the individual ships and apologizes. If no apology is done and the player or other ship leaves the sector, then you can end up with random ships across the universe that have either the player ship or the other ship flagged as an enemy.


Just out of curiosity, what effects of the Race Response Script don't you want? Unless you regularly attack one of the 5 races, they should never hurt you, but they can help you greatly in certain instances. For example, if going after a pirate base and lots of pirate ships just happen to launch, then the Race Response ships will consider that an "invasion" and pop some ships in to take out the pirates. And since the script uses the AL engine, if you do want to wage war on a certain race (and don't want them to call for help, which is unrealistic IMHO), all you have to do is turn the plugin off in the AL settings, wait a couple in-game minutes and then cause hell.
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Armegeddon's X3 scripts and mods

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apricotslice
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Post by apricotslice » Fri, 14. Apr 06, 07:27

I'm sorry, I cant leave it alone..... I dont mean to upset, but your points have to be addressed, or Egosoft may assume that I agree with your logic and then ignore a needed bug fix.
Armegeddon wrote:"Bugs"
5. Ships destroyed because they are docked at a station being destroyed by the God Engine. All ships should be undocked FIRST.
Some (most) of the stations destroyed by the God Engine are due to "natural disasters" or "sudden catastrophic failures". Things of that nature would destroy any ships docked, although there should be a small chance that some might survive, albit damaged in some way. This just adds some "life" to the universe.
Then the Bug is that this is inadequately reported in the log. The disaster should actually be mentioned by name "Your ship argon one was destroyed in sector argon prime by natural disaster that destroyed argon EQ dock before the ship could undock".

However, anything thats not an immediate distaster, should allow the ship to undock first.
6. Claimed ships vanish. Apparent God Engine problem.
Never had a ship I've successfully claimed disappear in any of the multiple games I've played. Sure they weren't destroyed? If you're referring to a ship that has ejected but you haven't claimed yet, it probably caught a stray blast and was destroyed.
Hmm, I hope Nanook doesnt see this. I have to say that the various threads that document this ad norseum seem to have been missed by you. I havent had more than a couple of instances of this, but some people have had it happen with 100's of ships.
10. BBS missions do not show your rank and the rank required for the mission. (Being insulted all the time is NOT acceptable).
I'm pretty sure they say in the title of the BBS message what rank is required...Or that could have been from X2.
That WAS X2. Why they left it off X3 is anyones guess.
14. Lasertowers fire directly into stations while IS combat is taking place.
That would be due to the LT being too close to the station and it trying to shoot at something through the station. Not a bug or an issue, just need to place them a few k farther away.
In that case, complexes are undefendable. Once a enemy ship gets inside the complex parimeter, its got free reign to kill the complex all it wants ?

Since player ships are immediately killed by the AP bugs if they go in there, that means your complexes are defenseless Lt's cannot be placed in range.

I call that a bug.
16. TL and M1 MUST be able to dock freighters.
This is not a bug, or an issue. It was a design decision by the developers.
Yes, and it was a stupid one. Call a spade a spade. The very fact that so many scripts have been written to get around it, means it was a very badly thought out decision.

I can only assume that the blurbs about the scripts mentioned dont mention they contain a fix for that problem. At least, I've never seen anything and I went looking for a fix. DockTL is the only one I've seen and its only a partial fix.

The issue here, is that it needs a fix, dev decision or not.
20. Collect wares in sector command AP will endlessly circle a ware at top speed and never collect it. Especially in the player ship. Stop ship, beam all collectable objects in range into the cargo hold, then move to another safe place to beam objects aboard.
Only ever seen this happen when using a very fast ship and having SETA on. Either use a slower ship, don't use SETA, or do it manually.
It worked perfectly in X2. Like the auto-pilot that also worked perfectly in X2.

Slower ship, still does it, I tried. Seta ? Makes no difference, on or off. Manually. I wouldnt be using the command if I wanted to do it manually, but as that is all that works, yes I do. The fact that I have to, means its a BUG.

......Script responses, just indicate that others consider it a defect in the problem and moved to solve it. They are still game issues that Egosoft should solve.
10. All wares should be buyable in bulk. The fact that they are fitted to a ship is not relevant. This is especially true of Jumpdrive and transporter device, but also includes ALL software. Only the cargo bay, speed and rudder enhancements should require an individual ship to visit a station. Everything else should be buyable in bulk and fitted from your EQ dock or TL or in a complex hub from ship to ship transfer.
There is no valid reason to have this so for 99% of the wares. All ships can dock at EQs, so they can pick them up themselves. JumpDrives and Transporter Devices can just be transfered from another ship.
We will just have to violently disagree on this one.

I tend to fit out ships a dozen or 2 dozen a time (back when I used to use ships of course). Taking that many ships all the way across the universe to get a jump drive is ludicrous. Not when a single ship could buy 50 of them and jump to where the ships are.
13. The menu interface is too clunky and way too slow to find anything in time to save it when attacked. Redesign it the same way current web designers do them, with mouse over popup on the hud. Better still, put all player ships as an icon on the hud and mouse over to give orders. When more than 20, the icons become group icons.
That's already there. If you right (or left, forget which) click on the ship icon on the hud you can issue commands to it.
Only for something IN SECTOR. When your UT on the other side of the universe gets fired on, by the time you open up the ship list to find it and give it orders, its already dead. Or by the time you select the sector to jump to and then the gate, its already dead before you can get there.
Regarding the AP. The more "intelligent" they make it, the more calculations it has to do, and the slower the game becomes. It is a tradeoff between accuracy and speed.
Give me accuracy 100% of the time. They can get rid of all the roids they put in for 1.3. get rid of the fancy gasses and nebulas, get rid of the planets that dramitically affect framerate in my game, and have a working reliable auto-pilot. Many will disagree, thats fine. But I'd rather turn off a lot of the fancy and un=necessary graphics than have a gameplay bug that kills ships it takes you so much effort to get.
Cap ship jumping is due to both ships trying ot jump into pretty much the same place. "Two objects can not occupy the same space at the same time"
Thats a bug. The ships are not in the same space to start from, why do they jumpt to the same space ? Thats why gateless jumping of cap ships is needed to be used by egosoft.
That one actually is a bug. Most of the rest are just complaints and whines.
well we agree on the first bit, pity about the second, which we will just have to agree to disagree on. for me, many of those problems are GAME KILLERS. Others will agree with me, although we wont agree on which ones.
Try actually checking all the scripts out there before saying something is broken.
The fact a script exists to change the game PROVES the feature is broken.
The developers have very little reason to implement something that is already provided sufficently in a script. The only thing they might do is work with the script author to get the script signed, but that is a very lengthy and strict process.
Then its time they got on with it isnt it ? Thats all I'm saying. Its time for them to finally address the gameplay issues a lot of people have. if a script already does it, then by all means include the script.

You and I can use scripts, but many cant or wont and the game needs fixing for them.
I think that's enough for now. (at least I managed to not get too annoyed this time)
I am truely sorry that our interaction has that effect on you.

We both have the game at heart, but seem to have opposite poles on what is wrong with it and how to fix it.

We both need to learn how to disagree in public without upsetting each other doing it.

Frankly, if devnet allowed a bit more of our kind of disagreements, then many of the current problems in the game might have been argued out before they were implemented and a better solution found.

There is nothing wrong with this level of argument over game features, its just we need to leave the emotions out of it.

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Post by apricotslice » Fri, 14. Apr 06, 07:31

Armegeddon wrote:For example, if going after a pirate base and lots of pirate ships just happen to launch, then the Race Response ships will consider that an "invasion" and pop some ships in to take out the pirates.
That would be undesirable. I ahve no problems with Pirates I cant handle. But Khaak Battlegroups used to be a big problem.

Its been some time since I looked at that script, I just remember not wanting it when I read about it.

The kind of race response I expect from the game is when I see 20 novas and a centaur pass within spitting distance of a KM2 and not a single shot is fired, then I question the race response settings. I saw this happen in an Argon sector completely trashed by Khaak destoryers. the Argon force popped in the gate, scraped the paint off the KM2 as they went past and disappeared out another gate. I sat there with my jaw on the ground not beleiveing it.

(my typos today are worse than normal, sorry. :o :oops:

Armegeddon
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Post by Armegeddon » Fri, 14. Apr 06, 08:31

Heh, let the games begin. :lol:

Please read the whole post before replying. Some of my responses to different parts have related comments farther in.
I'm sorry, I cant leave it alone..... I dont mean to upset, but your points have to be addressed, or Egosoft may assume that I agree with your logic and then ignore a needed bug fix.
First time something I've said has been called logic, usually it's much less complimentary. :)
The fact a script exists to change the game PROVES the feature is broken.
Not necessarily. Most scripts are to increase content or add features, not fix exisiting stuff. Same applies to most of the Mods. Just because someone decided to make a script to do something that isn't in the game does not mean the game is broken, it just doesn't contain the content that the script/mod adds. That lack of content does not necessarily mean the game is broken, or that the content should be automatically included as part of the game itself.
Hmm, I hope Nanook doesnt see this. I have to say that the various threads that document this ad norseum seem to have been missed by you. I havent had more than a couple of instances of this, but some people have had it happen with 100's of ships.
It's quite possible I haven't read those threads. Like I said in a previous (to remain unmentioned) post, I only read those threads that appear to interest me, or that I think I may be able to answer from reading the title. I don't have the time nor inclination to read everything everyone posts.
In that case, complexes are undefendable. Once a enemy ship gets inside the complex parimeter, its got free reign to kill the complex all it wants ?

Since player ships are immediately killed by the AP bugs if they go in there, that means your complexes are defenseless Lt's cannot be placed in range.

I call that a bug
(gonna beat a dead horse here) If your ships cannot navigate your complex tubes, then leave the sector. Even in real life, people moving at high speeds in close quarter, non-clear environments are sometims going to hit something. The only way to avoid that is to disable collision detection, which only happens OOS. If collision detection were to be disabled when IS, then you're weapons blasts wouldn't hit anything either.
regarding cap ship docking wrote:Yes, and it was a stupid one. Call a spade a spade. The very fact that so many scripts have been written to get around it, means it was a very badly thought out decision.

I can only assume that the blurbs about the scripts mentioned dont mention they contain a fix for that problem. At least, I've never seen anything and I went looking for a fix. DockTL is the only one I've seen and its only a partial fix.

The issue here, is that it needs a fix, dev decision or not.
We are definately gonna agree to disagree on that one. I played my first two times through the game with no docking scripts (very few scripts at all in fact) and enjoyed it immensely (wonder if that's spelt right). The fact that there are scripts that make docking possible on those ships means that some people want that option. The fact that there are 2 mods (that I immediately noticed) that implement docking (DDRS and Xtended) simply indicates that there are some people that want that option. Once again, just because a script or mod adds a feature to the game does not necessarily mean that it should be part of the game. Personally, I can live with or without it. It just means I have to be more creative to stock my ships (hence the THINK part of the game).
in reference to ware collection wrote:It worked perfectly in X2. Like the auto-pilot that also worked perfectly in X2.

Slower ship, still does it, I tried. Seta ? Makes no difference, on or off. Manually. I wouldnt be using the command if I wanted to do it manually, but as that is all that works, yes I do. The fact that I have to, means its a BUG.

......Script responses, just indicate that others consider it a defect in the problem and moved to solve it. They are still game issues that Egosoft should solve.
I wonder if there's something different between our two games. My autopilot doesn't seem to have the problems yours does. My ships rarely run into random things, even in Ore Belt when I'm IS working on my complex there. I pick up wares with my ship no problem, and the ships I assign to pick up wares never seem to have a problem. And that's with about 40 scripts running constantly in my global list, which tends to slow the AP down during SETA.
We will just have to violently disagree on this one.

I tend to fit out ships a dozen or 2 dozen a time (back when I used to use ships of course). Taking that many ships all the way across the universe to get a jump drive is ludicrous. Not when a single ship could buy 50 of them and jump to where the ships are
Note that I said "99% of the wares" Jumpdrives should be available from more than Terracorp and the Goner temple. I can understand the story behind them only being available from those two entities, but considering how big Terracorp is supposed to be, they should have more than a single station. The goners should have at least a couple more also since they are supposed to be "spreading the word".
referencing ships under attack wrote:Only for something IN SECTOR. When your UT on the other side of the universe gets fired on, by the time you open up the ship list to find it and give it orders, its already dead. Or by the time you select the sector to jump to and then the gate, its already dead before you can get there.
With the delay before being able to jump, that's most likely to be the problem no matter how fast you can select the ship and where to go. And I sincerely hope they don't reduce or remove that delay. That would make the Jumpdrive an easy route out if a fight isn't going your way.
Give me accuracy 100% of the time. They can get rid of all the roids they put in for 1.3. get rid of the fancy gasses and nebulas, get rid of the planets that dramitically affect framerate in my game, and have a working reliable auto-pilot. Many will disagree, thats fine. But I'd rather turn off a lot of the fancy and un=necessary graphics than have a gameplay bug that kills ships it takes you so much effort to get.
Then you should concentrate on asking for more graphic options instead of an overhaul to the AP. On a slow system, the AP will have problems simply because it can't make the calculations fast enough in most cases. If the number of random/AL ships in game is reduced, as well as graphics settings reduced, then the game has more time to spend on AP navigation. Perhaps that's where our games differ. I'm able to run the game at max settings with, what I consider, a resonable framerate and my AP rarely causes problems.
Thats a bug. The ships are not in the same space to start from, why do they jumpt to the same space ? Thats why gateless jumping of cap ships is needed to be used by egosoft.

Because there's only so much area in front of the destination gate and cap ships are very large. I agree there is some tweaking that could be done with this. Easiest, and least cheating (I know you hate that word, but some of us do like a certain amount of balance) would be to just increase the range around a gate that incoming ships arrive into. Right now it appears to be a 4-7k hemisphere directly in front of the gate. If that were to be increased to 10-15k in front and around the gate, then there would be less of an issue with it, unless jumping in like 20 cap ships at once.
The fact a script exists to change the game PROVES the feature is broken.
Been covered earlier in this post and I dislike repeating myself.
Then its time they got on with it isnt it ? Thats all I'm saying. Its time for them to finally address the gameplay issues a lot of people have. if a script already does it, then by all means include the script.

You and I can use scripts, but many cant or wont and the game needs fixing for them.
I'm pretty sure that the devs aren't sitting in the pub drinking beer all day. They are most likely fixing those items that THEY consider to be bugs, not just a few of the players. "You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time."
You have to remember that each of us is very insignificant in the overall scheme of things, just because some people don't like something doesn't mean they are going to go and change it. (That was not meant at you personally)
As to the last sentence of that quote, there is no reason why someone cannot use any of the scripts. If they do not want to use them, that's there choice and they have to live without those features. If ES were to try to cater to everyone whimes and wants, they'd never get anything done ever.


And finally:
I am truely sorry that our interaction has that effect on you.

We both have the game at heart, but seem to have opposite poles on what is wrong with it and how to fix it.

We both need to learn how to disagree in public without upsetting each other doing it.

Frankly, if devnet allowed a bit more of our kind of disagreements, then many of the current problems in the game might have been argued out before they were implemented and a better solution found.

There is nothing wrong with this level of argument over game features, its just we need to leave the emotions out of it.
You're completely right about most of that. What upset me in the other thread was the fact that you appeared to have the attitude that you were completely right and anyone that tried to tell you otherwise was completely wrong. Whether that was true or not, I don't know, that's just how it sounded to me.
Devnet should definately not be allowed to have these types of discussions in it. They would clutter up the threads soo much (especially with how long my posts tend to be) that the devs would find it almost impossible to locate the usefull information amoung all the other stuff.

(gonna grab your reponse to another post instead of creating another one)
The kind of race response I expect from the game is when I see 20 novas and a centaur pass within spitting distance of a KM2 and not a single shot is fired, then I question the race response settings. I saw this happen in an Argon sector completely trashed by Khaak destoryers. the Argon force popped in the gate, scraped the paint off the KM2 as they went past and disappeared out another gate. I sat there with my jaw on the ground not beleiveing it.
I do think something appears to be wrong with the normal race military ships. What I THINK might be the problem is that they only attack enemy ships if they are within sensor range when the enemy hits something friendly. If the enemy is not within sensor range then they don't appear to do anything. They do need to be changed to automatically initiate combat as soon as an enemy is within sensor range, and if a friendly ship/station is under attack in the same sector they are in, they should start moving in that direction. I can only guess that there is a problem with the script for that (I'm pretty sure that is handled by a script and not hardcoded).
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Armegeddon's X3 scripts and mods

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Post by Da_Junka » Fri, 14. Apr 06, 08:43

BBS missions should be split from all the boring space chatter so you don’t have to scroll though 22 pages of junk to view missions available.
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mad_axeman
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Post by mad_axeman » Fri, 14. Apr 06, 09:15

I'd like the ability to sell ship upgrades. Not the cargo, speed and rudder upgrades, but the othe things like scanner and software that you buy at equipment docks.

I have lost count of the number of times that I have had one ship, very little money and accidentally bought a piece of software that means that I then only have enough for a couple of ecells to start trading again.

I moaned about this in X2 and suprise suprise, you still can't sell them in X3.

Also, as a minor issue, I'd like to see a fix to the bug that means ships can be captured carrying more cargo than they have cargo space, which then means you can get unlimited cash from stations. I have not had this personally as I have not tried capping freighters in X3, but have seen a screen shot of this, I reported this bug in X2; it's still there (and yes, I agree that it is only minor).

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Post by jlehtone » Fri, 14. Apr 06, 09:44

Armegeddon wrote:"Issues"
1. Allow seta while docked or allow freight transfer oos.
See [SCRIPT] (RTD) Remote Transporter Device command by Xai Corporation
Definitely. That script should obtain signed status ASAP.

SETA would be a workaround, but IMO a bad one. Freight transfer in stations may be difficult to implement. Freight transfer in space is the logical option. Freight transfer between any two ships. That implies external docking, or transporter device. Thus, there could be two modes of remote freight transfer: vulnerable external docking, and quicker transporter-dependent method. I can accept the lack of external docking if RTD becomes available.

Yes, the script already exists. I'm in favor of signed scripts because they hopefully have been checked for side-effects and balance.
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Post by jlehtone » Fri, 14. Apr 06, 09:54

Armegeddon wrote:JumpDrives and Transporter Devices can just be transfered from another ship.
Not true now. There is no way that those could be transferred from anything to a TS,TP,M2,M6 remotely. Player has to be there. That is absurd.
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Post by Incubi » Fri, 14. Apr 06, 09:55

aside from what teh op has mentioned.
* Impreove ai controled Pirate Falcon battle performance.
* Include more commands for the management of stations.
*Add the ability to make control groups and select fleet formation for entire fleeet not just the leader.
*Fight command mark 3. the fighters version of the 3rd trade command.
*custom paint jobs at eq docks and when first hired.

Existing bugs not mentioned in op
*The L and the Manta and I beleive Dolphins incorrectly dock with stations, these are clipping issues not the ability to dock itself. Other ships may be affected.
*SPP, Teladi and Argon trade centers still have high casualty auto pilot crashes. Ships try to fly through them and not around if they start on the opposit side of the stations docking bay.
*Although the UT and ST are smarter about dealing with cargo they cannot sell, now they end up cluttering their cargo without notifying the player untill they have no cargo left to clutter. I think this could be solved if they check for profit in there own cargo before buying new stuff ( except ship owned stuff naturaly )

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Post by Paajtor » Fri, 14. Apr 06, 10:03

Has this been mentioned?: please make a command for all my fighter-drones to dock back into my cargo-bay again...cargo-bay should open for them automatically, with a voice warning for this as it is right now.

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Post by Incubi » Fri, 14. Apr 06, 10:04

Paajtor wrote:Has this been mentioned?: please make a command for all my fighter-drones to dock back into my cargo-bay again...cargo-bay should open for them automatically, with a voice warning for this as it is right now.
good Idea

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Post by Graaf » Fri, 14. Apr 06, 11:18

ISSUES

3. 1gj shielding for Lasertowers. Even 125mj shields are inadequate in X3. Allow for shield upgrading. Allow for LT factories to use different sheilds up to 1gb.
At least you got 125MJ shields. I found out my lasertowers have only 25MJ shields and you cannot beam in the 125MJ ones, just myself.

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Post by mad_axeman » Fri, 14. Apr 06, 11:32

Another one from X2 that's still in X3.... How about making the "Surrender" com option actually make a pilot surrender sometimes so it isn't completely useless!

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Post by apricotslice » Fri, 14. Apr 06, 11:41

Graaf wrote: At least you got 125MJ shields. I found out my lasertowers have only 25MJ shields and you cannot beam in the 125MJ ones, just myself.
You beamed yourself into a LT ? :)

Do those things even have life support ?

The 125mj shield upgrade is a script, and it charges you the difference in price for the shields.

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Post by holo_doctor » Fri, 14. Apr 06, 11:45

Tehrs quite a few things I strongly agree with here

1: TLs must be aloud to dock frighters in some way, A HEAVY transport that cant be loaded or unloaded is just rediculess. The TL has be reduced to a raw station transporter. Mobile miing operations that it use to excell at (and still can house the drilling system for) is now usless

2: the colission avoidance system needs a TOTAL rewrite, Its just unacceptable to loose ships ramming into objects that a player could avoide by adjusting cource 5KM back. Tip here is change it to a waypointing system insted of a collision avoidance system. On the fly waypoint generating to avoid all obsticals

3: Remove Debrie astorieds from the Trade lanes any dim witted goverment would have done.

4: Improved Fixed defence systems, the Lasertower is a joke!

Id think of more but I think these are the major ones most of us would agree on wake up ego u better be reading this
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