Please fix the auto-pilot and the Vanishing ships BUGS.

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apricotslice
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Post by apricotslice » Thu, 23. Mar 06, 09:48

Dont know about the devs, but after a shaky start, I hope this thread will lead to a partial solution or at least a lessoning of effects.

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=1566643

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Post by The_Vamp » Thu, 23. Mar 06, 11:52

An update!

One of the talented script writers came up with a possible fix for this. You can participate in this process by following the link below.


http://forum2.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=134809

Lates!
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Post by carbonbw » Thu, 23. Mar 06, 23:08

could it be that the mystrious ship-vanishing is bound to only some sectors and is not just random?

I say so because i have several ships on patrol in different sectors and all has been quiet for some time now, but when i send my Buster to 'Ocean of Fantasy', it sooner or later dissapears.
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Post by The_Vamp » Thu, 23. Mar 06, 23:25

I had not thought of this, nor have I considered that it might actually be intentional. With that stated, there isnt enough information in the pipe to make any sense of this. This forum is not necessarily in the business of writing patches for the game so I'm not even sure that we are going to gather that kind of data unless it happens to present itself as part of the script being worked on.

To repeat a thread I had started before, it is my hope to leverage against several other scripters works to create a more robust insurance script that the one currently offered by LV (sorry LV, I certainly mean no disrespect). This product would help offset the losses by providing a replacement ship in the event of a loss - for a cost. In the process of developing the script we are looking at why it has all of the sudden become necessary to do this and as this thread originally stated, it is my belief that the god engine is running amok.

Unfortunately, in the bloody battles that have ensued one truth remained constant - we cant change the engine. But we can certainly create a counter script, that once polished and packaged will offer gamers some relief. Of course I say we, but in truth, other more talented peeps are working on the respawning technology even as I type this in.

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Post by Danshep » Fri, 24. Mar 06, 12:43

I have also noticed the vanishing ship syndrome. I upgraded to 1.4 which is a great improvement although it still hasnt sorted out the sluggish mouse problem, I also have a joystick nearby which I grab as the mouse suddenly slows right in the middle of a battle.
I have found it is only my capped ships which disappear, fortunately they are not worth a lot by the time they give up and I have got fed up reloading and trying to get them to a shipyard. If they disappear I just carry on but it is very annoying.
I am running a AMD 55FX with Nvidia GForce 7800 and 2gb of memory so It shouldnt be my system not being able to cope. Yet another bug letting down a great game?

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Post by apricotslice » Fri, 24. Mar 06, 14:14

The more I think about this, the more it seems as if all NPC ships are subject to the creation and removal of the god-engine, but when you claim, they are not removed from the god-engines control.

As for the auto-pillok, its main problem is lack of anticipation, and wildly doing 90 to 180 degree turns at full speed, when all it needs to do is pick up the possible collision a litttle earlier, drop the speed to 100, do a 15 degree away, and then reassess. If ok, put the speed back. If not, do another 15 degree turn. etc. (I know its more complex than that, but somehow the AP seems to be trying to do the whole avoidance in 1 turn, far too late, while several smaller ones are what is needed).

Latest episode : I jump my Mammoth in sector. I then tell it to move to a position a couple of hundred meters away from the gate. It goes on a cooks tour through the middle of the worst of the roid belt and destroys itself 10km away. *sigh*

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Post by carbonbw » Fri, 24. Mar 06, 16:04

apricotslice wrote:
As for the auto-pillok, its main problem is lack of anticipation, and wildly doing 90 to 180 degree turns at full speed, when all it needs to do is pick up the possible collision a litttle earlier, drop the speed to 100, do a 15 degree away, and then reassess. If ok, put the speed back. If not, do another 15 degree turn. etc. (I know its more complex than that, but somehow the AP seems to be trying to do the whole avoidance in 1 turn, far too late, while several smaller ones are what is needed).
I agree.

@danshep
If u have some spare cradits, then test the following scenario:
Buy an argon Buster in Argon prime, fit with a jump drive and send it to
'Ocean of Fantasy', land it in the Equipment Dock or set it to pick up cargo in that sector... and see how long it takes for it to disappear.

I'm curious if you can reproduce my case.
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Alien abductions

Post by [TGU]SOL » Fri, 24. Mar 06, 19:12

well I had a OOS patrol going on in elena's fortune,like all my OOS patrols they consist of 1x elephant 2x nemisis 10x nova v's 4x perseus v's..they never lose a ship sometimes the odd nova or perseus will hop off to a shipyard for some hull repairs...so when I noticed my number 9 and 10 nova where missing , I thought they where on there way to the argon prime shipyard..but when i checked they where nowhere to be seen and no messages in my log about them being attacked or docking for repairs.

Was annoyed at losing about 7,000,000 worth ships but hey a few hours later I found them in dukes domain floating side by side (and by the way they are still there) with the unkown pilot thing ,knew they where mine as they where maxed in upgrade's and had my crazy weapon and missile loadout, tried to capp them back but just like those mercuries you find floating about it is a no go.

I have also lost 3 UT's to the hand of god nonsense with the disappearing station malarkey.

It is the aliens I tell you they are abducting my ships!...where my tin foil helmet. :wink:

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Post by Nanook » Fri, 24. Mar 06, 21:15

Jakesnake5 wrote:Upgrading caps, assigning them to stations, even setting them as Wingmen don't help the vanishings. This is really strange.

Wish the dev's would read this and let us know if their going to work on it.
Yep, as I pointed out in the post apricotslice quoted above. There's absolutely no way to save these ships. After it happened to the Harrier Raider I mentioned, and after numerous failed attempts to save it, I simply let it disappear and then used LV's cheat script to give myself a replacement. Seemed only fair. I really, really wanted that ship. :D

Since then, I've had a captured Mako disappear, and just yesterday, another Harrier Raider. Fortunately, I had saved about 30 seconds before the latest disappearance, and was able to send the savegame to aalaardb for analysis. Hopefully, something good will come from it.
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Post by Nanook » Fri, 24. Mar 06, 21:33

carbonbw wrote: @danshep
If u have some spare cradits, then test the following scenario:
Buy an argon Buster in Argon prime, fit with a jump drive and send it to
'Ocean of Fantasy', land it in the Equipment Dock or set it to pick up cargo in that sector... and see how long it takes for it to disappear.

I'm curious if you can reproduce my case.
I don't think it has anything to do with the sectors. I've had ships disappear in several different sectors. My Harrier example above suffered disappearances in all the sectors between Thuruk's Beard, where I captured it, and Family Pride, where I was sending it for repairs, during my many failed attempts to save it. It even disappeared in Company Pride when I sent it that way to Seizewell. And my other disappearances were in Danna's Chance and Freedom's Reach (second Harrier), and The Wall and The Hole (captured Mako). The disappearances seem to be related to time, not location. You can postpone the disappearance for a while by changing the ship's orders, or even by watching the ship via the sector map. But it will eventually disappear. It's probably something to do with the GOD engine cycling through the NPC assets, deciding what to kill off next. Perhaps when ships are spawned by the game, the GOD engine flags certain ones for later demolition. To tell the truth, I never noticed anything like this prior to 1.4, and I had captured hundreds of ships in 1.3.
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Post by Jakesnake5 » Fri, 24. Mar 06, 21:46

My P Harrier Raider (P meaning Pirate) was saved by not leave the sector it was in (or IT leaving MY sector), or my parking my butt in it and moving around. Which is impractical if you want to play the game, really.

It would vanish immediatly after it left my sector, or within 3 mins of me leaving ITs.

I never had this trouble with vanishing ships in 1.3. And since this 'feature' wasn't mentioned in the patch, it doesn't belong there. :evil:

Now if a dev comes along and says 'oh, btw, this is supposed to happen', I MIGHT accept it. :twisted:

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Post by carbonbw » Fri, 24. Mar 06, 22:42

@Jakesnake5
well I might accept it if there was a message telling: "your ship has been stolen by a bunch of drunken pirates" or "seized for police purposes", but just saying it's destroyed is not accptable :P


@Nanook

well, I have that particular Buster(not a captured one, it was bought) parked in 'Family Njy' but only if I move it to 'ocean of fantasy' it vanishes.
and another ship is constantly on pick up cargo in 'argon prime' and it didn't vanish until now(i'll correct myself when it does)

... so I conclude that there are some sectors save from "the-occasinally-occurring-miniature-black-hole-phenomenon"

... maybe it is the evil EVENT HORIZON that is jumping in and stealing our credits.
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Post by apricotslice » Sat, 25. Mar 06, 01:45

Bought ships appear to be completely safe, since they have only been assigned to the player. Nor do the freeby ships seem to be affected.

Its claimed ships that seem to be the problem.

I have a suspicion that parking them in a cap ship isnt a help either, since I swear my mammoth has 3 less ships in there since the last time I parked one and checked. But my memory might be playing tricks on me.

I think its maybe time we got officially told if this is a bug, design, or a feature (bug they decided to keep).

The devs have so many times over patching X2 and X3 put in something that sabotages making quick money, that I have to suspect them of deliberately putting in a feature that removes claimed ships from the game so that it forces you to sell them. And forces us to buy what we want to actually use. This also means we dont get to use the 'pirate specials', which is also in keeping with the "make it as hard as possible" mentality the devs seem to have.

This would affect me greatly, because I keep the vast majority of ships I cap, and fix them up. It wont affect the people who sell them immediately and buy stock ships.

Ironically, capping seems to be a bit easier in 1.4, and thats not typical dev behavious :)

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Post by carbonbw » Sat, 25. Mar 06, 02:30

apricotslice wrote:Bought ships appear to be completely safe, since they have only been assigned to the player. Nor do the freeby ships seem to be affected.

Its claimed ships that seem to be the problem.

I have a suspicion that parking them in a cap ship isnt a help either, since I swear my mammoth has 3 less ships in there since the last time I parked one and checked. But my memory might be playing tricks on me.

I think its maybe time we got officially told if this is a bug, design, or a feature (bug they decided to keep).

The devs have so many times over patching X2 and X3 put in something that sabotages making quick money, that I have to suspect them of deliberately putting in a feature that removes claimed ships from the game so that it forces you to sell them. And forces us to buy what we want to actually use. This also means we dont get to use the 'pirate specials', which is also in keeping with the "make it as hard as possible" mentality the devs seem to have.


Sorry, I disagree completely.

As I said before
1. my bought buster disappears
2. the freeby teladi freighter from 'Menelaus Frontier' disappeared in 'Paranid Prime', i can prove that with the entry in my log

however, maybe this whole problem has something to do with this:

quote from the v1.4 readme
...Uncontrolled spawning of large amounts of Yaki ships in certain sectors has been fixed. (note that it may take a few minutes after loading a savegame until the numbers are back to normal)...

or other spawning tweaks made in 1.4

cheers
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Post by Nanook » Sat, 25. Mar 06, 03:52

carbonbw wrote:
apricotslice wrote:Bought ships appear to be completely safe, since they have only been assigned to the player. Nor do the freeby ships seem to be affected.

Its claimed ships that seem to be the problem.

I have a suspicion that parking them in a cap ship isnt a help either, since I swear my mammoth has 3 less ships in there since the last time I parked one and checked. But my memory might be playing tricks on me.

I think its maybe time we got officially told if this is a bug, design, or a feature (bug they decided to keep).

The devs have so many times over patching X2 and X3 put in something that sabotages making quick money, that I have to suspect them of deliberately putting in a feature that removes claimed ships from the game so that it forces you to sell them. And forces us to buy what we want to actually use. This also means we dont get to use the 'pirate specials', which is also in keeping with the "make it as hard as possible" mentality the devs seem to have.


Sorry, I disagree completely.

As I said before
1. my bought buster disappears
2. the freeby teladi freighter from 'Menelaus Frontier' disappeared in 'Paranid Prime', i can prove that with the entry in my log

however, maybe this whole problem has something to do with this:

quote from the v1.4 readme
...Uncontrolled spawning of large amounts of Yaki ships in certain sectors has been fixed. (note that it may take a few minutes after loading a savegame until the numbers are back to normal)...

or other spawning tweaks made in 1.4

cheers
Your problem is different from the disappearing captured ships. These ships have no warning, indeed, they have no reason to disappear. Mine have disappeared before my very eyes, and have disappeared from a station while I was watching the station ship list. This is NOT the same as your problem appears to be. I repeat, there is never a log entry associated with these captures disappearing.
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Post by apricotslice » Sat, 25. Mar 06, 04:45

To summarise so far, we have the following bugs, either separate ones or in some way related in an unknown way :

1. Auto Pillok.
a) Object in direct line from player ship to target always kills.
b) Complex hub kills player owned AI ships.
i) on approach by colliding with tubes.
ii) while docking or undocking. (better than 1.3, but still needs work)
c) General collisions with asteroids and stations, particularly capital ships taking huge tours to move small distances and killing themselves.
d) Starting avoidance too late, avoiding far to drastically.
e) Lack of stop, turn on a dime, start ability. Cap ships need to spin before moving to avoid the long walkabout treks they make, that invariably kill them.

2. Claimed ships vanish "destroyed in sector", no details - suspected god-engine, possible incorrectly logged enemy action.

3. Ships removed when God engine removes station.

4. Ships vanish with no message.

Ship vanishings occur both oos and is.

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Post by Da_Junka » Sat, 25. Mar 06, 10:54

I have lost count of the capped ships I have had go missing on there way to a shipyard. Even though there was no message say they had been destroyed I assumed they had. But now I know better, it's a big nasty bug, also even though I paid near double the price for a Nova Vanguard I am getting less of a ship, what in the blue-God-of-thunder is that all about? X3 has become a little bit messy around the edge's
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Post by matthewfarmery » Sat, 25. Mar 06, 14:52

I think the main problem with dissapearing ships, is because of external docking and no place to store all those ships, the second resaon is possibly down to the CPU ussage that the game needs. also the ram ussage. its possible that the game has a ship cap, that is the amount of ships in the universe that the game can manage, this will be different for each person depending on his or her computer

this is my theory on why ships dissapear, if ego had kept internal docking this problem wouldn't be as bad, as the ships would be stored and wouldn't requre CPU power to track, external docking is a very bad idea, so as long as external docking remains, I don't see this bug / problem being fixed
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Post by apricotslice » Sat, 25. Mar 06, 15:01

matthewfarmery wrote:its possible that the game has a ship cap, that is the amount of ships in the universe that the game can manage, this will be different for each person depending on his or her computer
I dont go along with the docking theory, but....

An array overflow in the program is a definite posibility.

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Post by matthewfarmery » Sat, 25. Mar 06, 15:10

what I meant was, because the ships were docked in X2, they didn't require much CPU power, put it this way, when the UT was released in X2, by having too many would cause the game to run a lot slower, now in X3 nearly every ship is in space and needs ussage and ram to track it's every move, by having too many, the game isn't coping, therefore the game needs to remove ships to make the game playable, hence the reason why ships are dissapearing, this bug / problem can't be fixed, if it was you would have so many ships it would cause a massive game slowdown, and untimatly making the game unplayable, only ny bringing back internal docking and allowingf ships to dock can they save CPU ussag and ram, as they are all in one place and they aren't moving, so they don't need to be constently tracked by the CPU
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