Race Portraits.

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Axeface
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Post by Axeface » Thu, 27. Mar 08, 23:53

Thanks all!

Like Para said. I've been trying to avoid human similarities, while still making the teladi look probable (Hense SHE looks like a HE). I havent done so well and she still has too many similarities to humans, but if I was to make her completely alien ide lose all emotion and endearing qualities. Its a vicious circle!

About ears, have a look, she has some ear'esk things, that need a little more sculpting. Thanks for the info!

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Post by Paranoid66 » Fri, 28. Mar 08, 12:24

The nose, and mouth part of the Teladi reminds me of the apes from the original planet of the apes not a bad thing as they had real warmth.

Your image has some charisma - you can sense a bit of warmth there too - that their could be a character behind the face its not just a text book image of a racial stereotype she seems like a person.

Maybe a bit of jewellery would make it more female although the eyes seem female to me. I don't know if Teladi would wear this or not but you might imagine something with a made up hatchery symbol for example!
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Post by Axeface » Fri, 28. Mar 08, 17:01

Thanks para :)
Yeh I was thinking about doing some jewelery, but I'm not sure if teladi would wear it. Anyone know?
What do you mean about hatcheries? Do tell!

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Post by Paranoid66 » Fri, 28. Mar 08, 18:57

However I can't recall where now. I thought it might have been on the Argonopedia site a fair bit of race info there although only updated to X2 this information shouldn't really change in relation to physique, and so on.

Maybe it was in one of the fan fiction stories or in game BBS messages.

Just had the vision of Teladi having some affiliation to their hatchery, and the idea that this might be (my own thought) represented by symbols that could double as jewellery.

Speaking of Argonopedia it has some interesting details on Teladi that might require some reworking if you wish to stay as close to canon as possible - stuff that made me think again about some descriptive in my story it says for example that they can't smile as such - although I have not used Teladi much I might have to go back and check what I said.
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Post by Axeface » Fri, 28. Mar 08, 20:45

Cheers, checking it out.

EDIT: Just saw about the paranid, something ive missed.

"Their thick leathery skin is yellow and they have three large bony crests on the tops of their heads. They also have three eyes set in a deep furrow across their foreheads. Their mouth is similar to that of a fish with two fangs emerging from the either side. They also have a series of bone spines that grow from the backs of their heads and appear like twin tusks at the sides of their eyes and mouth"

The last point, about bone spines. Could someone try to explain what that actually means? Possibly with a similarity to one of our own species on earth? :)
The paranid needs to be remodelled really, I'll need to set his eyes deeper, and rework the head.

Could the bone spines mean something like this...
http://www.geocities.com/paleo_biology/ ... eryops.jpg
If so that seems really unfeasable to me, one of those coming from the back of the head, and curling around to the front would snap the first time you put pressure on it or fell on it, hmm.

Reading the info on the teladi, ide say my model is pretty accurate. Ive put everything in there that is described. THe boney forehead crest, the orange eyes, The ridge on their heads.

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Post by Paranoid66 » Fri, 28. Mar 08, 21:19

Funny it was the bony forehead crest. I was thinking as something more vertical as to me crest is like the crest of a bird standing very much on end but I guess it is a question of interpretation.

I think the Paranid spines would have to have a flexible quality rather than be utterly stiff sound pretty freaky I admit - in my own mind I kind of edited it out as a bit impractical rather than trying to figure ot how it might work - might be a real pain when it comes to getting a space suit Helmet on and off for example, then again maybe their helmets could hinge together or apart in some very different way to the usual pull over the head Argon solution?

If ES had described the purpose of these spines it might have given us a better idea. For example sensory like whiskers in a cat or for display purposes, intimidation, reproduction??? Can’t recall them showing this feature in any of the Muppet like communication window images!

EDIT

Reading it again it sounds like the spines actually merge together from several into these tusk like growths two either side one at eye level one at the mouth level that sounds more like natural weaponry.

If the spines are flexible but twine together for strength it could be the best of both worlds flexibility, and strength. Now I am thinking it is almost like the tusks have roots going into the back of the head which might suggest bunches of nerve endings or something hmmmm! Why does it make me think about bio-mechanical?

Makes you think not enough discussion on the forums about the races.
Anyway being side tracked should be continuing my next chapter!
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Post by parameter » Tue, 8. Apr 08, 14:32

Axeface wrote: Boron -Tentacles near the snout


Boron - Would it be more of a 'plankton sifting' frill around the mouth or tenticular as like the cuttlefish?

Paranid - They are supposed to be mean, nasty and long limbed so proportion of head is quite believable. Not sure about a crest as that would not go with their long limbed look.

Teladi - As an hermaphrodite species he/she/it looks quite spectacular as is. As lizard forms go they tend to be quite sleek. The story depicts them as moving around on hind legs, bit like the Frilled Desert lizard? Not sure how they would cope with a large frill/crest if they had to go space side in a suit though?
Nice work anyway :)
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Post by Admiral-Dyroi » Thu, 17. Apr 08, 22:02

Axeface wrote:Cheers, checking it out.

EDIT: Just saw about the paranid, something ive missed.

"Their thick leathery skin is yellow and they have three large bony crests on the tops of their heads. They also have three eyes set in a deep furrow across their foreheads. Their mouth is similar to that of a fish with two fangs emerging from the either side. They also have a series of bone spines that grow from the backs of their heads and appear like twin tusks at the sides of their eyes and mouth"

The last point, about bone spines. Could someone try to explain what that actually means? Possibly with a similarity to one of our own species on earth? :)
The paranid needs to be remodelled really, I'll need to set his eyes deeper, and rework the head.

Could the bone spines mean something like this...
http://www.geocities.com/paleo_biology/ ... eryops.jpg
If so that seems really unfeasable to me, one of those coming from the back of the head, and curling around to the front would snap the first time you put pressure on it or fell on it, hmm.

Reading the info on the teladi, ide say my model is pretty accurate. Ive put everything in there that is described. THe boney forehead crest, the orange eyes, The ridge on their heads.
Maybe the bone spines look something like these?...i always thought they looked like the cute cuddly version of the 7ft tall Iksar race from EverQuest.
http://eq2vault.ign.com/screenshots/?ss ... &subcat=25

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Teladi Hatchery Symbology

Post by parameter » Fri, 18. Apr 08, 09:38

Axeface wrote:Thanks para :)
Yeh I was thinking about doing some jewelery, but I'm not sure if teladi would wear it. Anyone know?
What do you mean about hatcheries? Do tell!
Sorry about long delay in responding. My hospital and Specialist trips are becoming more frequent. I take it that you are following the race descriptors as provided by the Egosoft team?
Anyway, Teladi are just sentient lizards, they lay eggs in hatcheries but they happen to be Family hatcheries. As such they should have their own, distinct symbol. Some humans wear Family Crest rings or brooches; same thing really! I thought that maybe rings/brooches/necklaces would still be valid for Teladi?
What do you think?
:)
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Teladi description

Post by parameter » Fri, 18. Apr 08, 09:57

As I read Farnhams Legend and some more of the Argonopedia I realised that the Teladi are still as Argon (Earth) lizards. Some can run on water or across soft sand on their back legs. Some are squat like the Gila Monsters, but the Teladi genus is sentient and walks on its hind legs. The initial Teladi in space were totally female and could reproduce exact clones without a male. The Ianymus Zura (Excuse spelling!) Teladi do procreate male to female but lay eggs in Family Hatcheries where they are instilled with the virtues of Trade etc as hatchlings. As with most lizards that I am aware of, none talking to me yet! :roll: 'jus anuvver drink..Hic!' the gender is determined by the temperature of the hatchery. Take crocodiles for example! :o Good grief! This is more like a biology lecture! :oops:
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Post by ralleE » Fri, 9. May 08, 13:43

Hell, they're looking awesome. I'm speechless. :shock:

Are they just done for stills, or will they be animate able, too ? I'm in the same trouble. I'll need to model some for my Project, a little comic . I hope i can use your pics as a guideline?? :?

Greetings....

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Post by Axeface » Sun, 20. Jul 08, 06:12

Update!

PARANID UPDATE

Worked some more on the paranid. He's almost finished. Going to add some clothes etc.

Admiral. Cheers, yeh i'm thinking that now :)

Thanks for all the other info guys, will come in handy!

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Post by Paranoid66 » Sun, 20. Jul 08, 09:13

Not sure about that feature on the top of his head. It looks very additional. Both in the heavy coloration and the geometry, and the fact that it contains those lumps but they don't extend outside the markings even in a smaller way looks contrived rather than natural.

Also maybe I'm being a bit purist but I still think being a Paranid it needs at least the hint of a forward brow ridge and a cavity below. I can appreciate you don't want to go all Wallace and Gromit lol, but the eyes fully protrude they don't nestle out from inside a space a complete reversal of the Paranid description.

I don't want to be critical but if you are trying to illustrate the races as described, and not making up new ones it is something to think about. A bit odd if you show them one way in the game but textual descriptions state they are otherwise.

Sorry it all sounds negative I like the overall colour, and most of the head shape flesh looks suitably wormy already. Mouth shape might be a little more fishy (again from description) lips look too human shaped to me especially the upper lip. I would be inclined to raise it out a bit, and lose the philtrum.

How do you try things out, do you do any rough sketches? If you are just working on the computer you might be accidentally restricting (fixing options in a bit early).

Good luck, and I hope you don’t take my thoughts too personal we all have our own ideas, and images in our own heads.
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Post by Axeface » Sun, 20. Jul 08, 18:11

No no problem! All crit is good crit.
This model is totally based on the ego concept (Which already goes against most of the written descriptions), I took that and tried to make it look more fierce. I'm really just finishing up this model (Portfolio work), and i've been playing around with an alternate one more designed to the written descriptions.
Im working on blending the bone crests, and I agree about the mouth. I've been having problems with it, and it does need to be changed a lot.

Could you post all the info you know? Seems you know a lot about how they should look! Could you even scribble down a quick sketch? Especially the brow and cavity you mentioned. If not no problem hehe.

The lack of info is quite frustrating!

I will post an image in a few mins of the other model, excuse the crudeness. Its only a sketch model that I did because of most of the problems you mentioned. They are all annoying me too :) I want to make something that IS a Paranid.


EDIT:

Here you go Paranoid66. I hope you agree that this sketch model is more like a true Paranid. I did it a while back, about 30 mins work. If you have any problems with this one please say. At this early stage its easy to change it :)
This model is more a mix of written descriptions and the concept. Trying to get that fine line.
Thank you for the honest feedback!


http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/3406/paranidng4.jpg
http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/9921/paranid2hj5.jpg

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Post by Paranoid66 » Sun, 20. Jul 08, 21:05

I really don't have much more information than others have mentioned already. I think the best description I have seen is in the argonopedia which others have posted. It is worth looking at the old models even though they are very muppet like they still delineate the main design concepts. Once again all this is just my opinion, but I know how much it can help to get an external view.

To me it is just a question of thinking hard about what characteristics really stand out as distinctly Paranid. The three bony ridges seems to be one, the prominent brow, with the cavity below holding the eyes, fish like mouth with the two protruding fangs, wormy skin, and so on.

I like your sketch it does seem closer to me to the original, and a solid base to build on, I much prefer the top of the head. Again it seems the mouth lower face needs some work - as it just fails to say fishy mouth to me, but I appreciate it is a work in progress.

Maybe the way to go would be to do a bit of quick research, look at some pictures of various fish mouths, and what makes them distinctive or interesting especially predators with teeth (maybe deep water species some real horrors there). The two protruding fangs are a strange one they are huge in the old in game models, but those seem - cartoon like exaggerations - so maybe you could get away with reducing those a fair bit.

What I noticed before on your other design was the very human lips, which didn't seem quite right: notably the pronounced philtrum that divides up the top lip. I would be inclined to lose that as it seems too human. Perhaps if you had the groove from the nose terminate earlier into a crossing skin fold taking away that bifurcation by the time it reaches the protruding mouth. I also prefer the heavier jaw in the sketch I think the widened jaw, and chin could help with the mouths overall shape. Staring at the goldfish here protruding upside down semi open U with an all around lip heavier at the top might be one way to go.

On the worm skin front - I like that light colour you used - some hint of skin translucency would be great as well. I was thinking the wormy idea might be enhanced by adding the idea of light subtle segmentation via shallow skin folds aka the common night crawler sort of thing. Perhaps around the lower face if that protruded out a little more. I wish my scanner was working here, but maybe words are better as they won’t cramp your style I certainly don’t want to come across as a back seat artist.

I like some of the folds already around underneath the eyes in the sketch I assume the finished product would be a little less rounded, pneumatic looking though.

I agree about the lack of info ES leave almost too much up to our imaginations. As such it leaves lots of room for disagreement. In a way you might have a real opportunity here to help fix our image of the races a little bit more.

Will you be adding those odd tusk like things that are mentioned as arcing round at the side of the face at eye and mouth level if I recall right. Though they could be added later. I think you can see hints of those in the old in game models too.

EDIT - just saw your second image nice one I certainly think you are getting there. Interesting how your skin folding is mostly vertical.

Once again good luck.
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Post by Tenlar Scarflame » Mon, 21. Jul 08, 06:32

Hey, that's a pretty sweet Paranid you have going there! :D

In my most humble and rather limited opinion, I always viewed the Paranid as being... mmm... BEEFIER than all the other races. At least, that's the impression I get from the comm screens, their voices, and the written descriptions. They're supposed to be able to, as a general rule, pwn even a Split in hand to hand combat, simply on the basis of being gigantic and beefy.

In the interest of that, I could see a... hmm... somewhat thicker, more leathery sort of experience below the head. Also, they're supposedly evolved from the desert beetles on Paranid Prime, which would lead me to suspect they'd have at least a limited exoskeleton- which would provide a good opportunity to introduce those tusk-crests that are in the existing models.

Overall, much, much better stuff than I could ever do. Very nice :D :D

EDIT... any chance of getting a Split on the scene? :P I'm a big fan of the war-heads... also, as they're the most human-looking in the menagerie, they'd probably be a lot simpler to design than, say, the Boron. O.O
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Post by Paranoid66 » Mon, 21. Jul 08, 09:25

Some more of my own thoughts, and speculations: Pretty sure the description says they are tall, but I don't think they are bulky in a traditional sense. I would guess their deep voices come from their elongated bodies. Their strength isn't in big showy muscles, but I am guessing lies in other mechanisms they are said to have multi jointed, but thin insect like limbs that are often used for squeezing crushing foes to death. Their skin may be very tough not easily cut or punctured when they are so willing to embrace their foes but that doesn't mean it needs to be rigid.

I liked to imagine they are one of those species that are surprisingly flexible with cartilage like plates beneath the skin capable of flexing and moving, and although big they might be able to squeeze themselves into tight spots like insects or worms. Or possibly to be squeezed within reason without being crushed. Although I am guessing only within certain limits, which explains why, they are into display, and status big time.

Description seems a mass of contradictions beetle like ancestor, but no carapace instead wormy skin. If they dropped the external carapace their had to be a reason to me (the ability to flex more?) they live in caves so that makes sense for getting into through gaps. Fishy mouthparts maybe for browsing rasping food off rocks or something like that note their staple is a plant not an animal. Interestingly they farm snails these must also have lived in cooler underground damp areas.

Those three eyes I'm guessing P.prime had some nasty predators, but life throws up some pretty funky designs even on earth especially in the insect world. The fact they live under high gravity, and extreme heat would mean they would have to be very robust thus weapons that used heat would probably not be so effective they would be flame retardant while their sheer toughness, and flexibility would help negate kinetic impact damage making them the seriously nasty hand to hand fighters described.

Due to the high gravity I can imagine them once scuttling along on all limbs or even squirming through tight spaces. Perhaps the whole standing up thing evolved out of scanning for predators but also again display, and intimidation. They are still into this with their ludicrous OTT clothing like their crazy hats and their boastful speech. Display makes sense with the sort of strength described in their limbs fighting each other must result in the threat of major injury no doubt if squeezed in just the right spots.

In my own story I made a lot of the fact that their reproduction is very much a mystery. That allowed me to suggest that they might have been genetically altered, but that is just my own flight of fantasy with little to back it up beyond their obsessive secrecy that hints at truths they want to keep hidden. That they use semi organic hulls also suggest an interest in bio engineering however.
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Post by Tenlar Scarflame » Mon, 21. Jul 08, 18:32

Hmmm... okay, I'll agree with most of that. :D I suppose evolving from a beetle doesn't necessitate an exoskeleton. Could be underdeveloped and mostly useless, i.e. through neoteny, due to the need for increased flexibility evolving further. Also, being as big as they are, having a big bulky exoskeleton would not be favorable to a sentient race- an intelligent enough being with enough dexterity and flexibility would just make its own armor. :)

The neck, though... still seems very human to me. It might just be the Adam's Apple...
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Post by Paranoid66 » Mon, 21. Jul 08, 20:49

Tenlar Scarflame wrote:The neck, though... still seems very human to me. It might just be the Adam's Apple...
Good point I was so busy looking at the face I kind of blanked the neck. I agree Adam's Apple is too human looking. I'm still thinking subtle worm like segmentations here - I know its becoming a mild obsession.
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Post by KRM398 » Thu, 7. Aug 08, 13:08

Very nice attempts, the paranid, I always thought in game looked like they eveolved from hippo's on earth...lol. But all the charcters you've made so far look pretty good, it even makes the Boron look a little less, well, squidlike, I always thought thats what the Ego pics were going for. :roll:

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