All versions of X3 WILL have Starforce Protection

[Sunstar]

HI all -- I just thought I let you know that I received a e-mail from QV software in reply to an inquiry I made about what protection system they would use in Australia and QV software confirmed it would be Starforce.

I’ve seen at least one other thread about Starforce but I didn’t think it was a very balanced thread. More sensational than anything else. But it did cause me to look into Starforce and the problems it MAY create for end users like ourselves.

I’ll ask in advance that people don’t sensationalise this thread and get it locked. I believe that as a Patron of this companies software I have a right to voice a concern about what this companies publishers are going to do with Egosoft’s FANTASTIC – INOVATIVE and really fun game.

I’ll say it clearly – IT IS, AND I UNDERSTAND IT IS, THE PUBLISHERS PROBLEM AND CHOICE TO USE THIS SOFTWARE PROTECTION NOT EGOSOFT’S. But this is the place to talk about the X universe games and therefore, as paying customer, I am.

I love X gold – I got a copy straight from Egosoft years ago. I love X2 I got a copy here in Australia and have been posting on these forums off and on ever since.

But I’m not happy with QV software's choice of Copy protection this time around.

The reasons why?

Simple.

I’m not going to post links to web-sites that may contain things that Egosoft might object to. A search on “removing Starforce” or similar will find plenty of web pages about it.

Before I start with why I’m worried about Starforce I’d like to say that I know that many people COULD install a game with Starforce protection and not have a problem.

I personally have had a very negative experience with CDILLA, which is a protection system similar to Starforce in concept. I ended up having to do a low-level reformat of my hard drive to get my cd rom burner burning again.

Here are some highlights from some web pages– which is to say - the bits that have got me worried – Things that COULD happen not WILL happen.

“Moreover, the Starforce drivers, installed on your system, grant ring 0 (system level) privileges to any code under the ring 3 (user level) privileges. Thus, any virus or Trojan can get OS privileges and totally control your system. Since Windows 2000, the Windows line security and stability got enhanced by separating those privileges, but with the Starforce drivers, the old system holes and instabilities are back and any program (or virus) can reach the core of your system by using the Starforce drivers as a backdoor.”

“While stopping software piracy is the scheme's goal, the system instead causes system slowdowns, PC instability, device conflicts, is nearly impossible to remove manually, and remains long after you've uninstalled the software it came with.”

“Users report that the software gobbles up computing cycles, slows CD drive read-times, creates CD-R read errors even after removal, and is responsible for a number of device conflicts - particularly with external USB drives. Users who have tried to remove the product manually have often damaged their systems to the point of needing a fresh OS install.”

“So, a while back I installed XIII on my computer. Up until then my CD-RW/DVD drive worked 100% fine.
Then, very shortly after, it got slower when reading disks. Games started to lag, windows took a while to start up... Eventually, after I beat XIII, I uninstalled it. By this point, My drive stopped burning disks completely. Just a few days ago, it stopped reading disks all together. I just figured out how to remove Starforce, and it didn’t help.

Now my CD drive is dead...”

Anyway… I think that covers my concerns and that I have a right to BE concerned. This isn’t Egosoft’s fault. But I think that as Egosoft supporters we have the right to know what COULD happen before we buy.

I’ve cancelled my pre order in Australia.

My question is – what protection does the English version sold in the Egosoft store have – is it Starforce? If it isn’t I’ll buy directly from the company.

I believe that excellence deserves reward. Which is why I want to PAY to play X3. Software protection will not force me to become a pirate.

I also believe that stupidity deserves no reward so I will not be funding publishers who chose to take chances on my systems stability and security.

Sunstar

{title edited - hope ya don't mind - esd}

[The_Abyss]

Both the US and UK versions of X3 use Starforce and are therefore (optical media aside) identical.

[Sunstar]

Damm

Sounds like I'm going to miss out on playing the game.

But thanks for the reply.

Sunstar

[shasla5]

Curse starforce, and all it's little wicked, illegitamate children. That's all. If that program dares interfere with my brand new, cutting edge and cheaply assembled rig, there's nothing I can do about it, and that angers me greatly.

[Sunstar]

Nice Looking computer specks - I'm green with envy.

Maybe ina few months if this version of starforce isn't causing drastic problems for people - then i might buy the game.

You can all be my Starforce Beta Testers....

Good Luck

[RPatrick]

Has Egosoft made any official statements of support for Starforce ?

Egosoft should be highly concerned about what is installed with their product on someone's computer, since it will reflect upon their software regardless of who is responsible.

I understand that Egosoft does not choose the protection scheme, however I assume they do choose the publisher. Surely there is a way to know which publishers will use which copy protection scheme. Wouldn't it make sense to avoid all the controversy.

I would not let this prevent my purchase of the game, but it is a sad, sad day when a paying customer has to subject their computer to system slowdown and possible instability because of some overbearing copy protection system. They are only hurting the honest people.

[esd]

I assume they do choose the publisher

Given that Egosoft are a very small developer (only one step up from Independant, imo...), they have practically no choice of publisher.

They take whoever says "I'll publish it".

[StoneLegionYT]

I agree theres to many issues.

I mean yes we need to protect game so people don't warez it and such but there always way around things just takes more time.

People though who are paying can't even play. I think there should have been other ideas like only people with serial can get patchs maybe other security features and such.

But as I been reading more and more and apprently what happend with X2 it's hurting the custmers more then the publishers wallet.

Thats my 2cents. I can't wait till The game comes to canada. But I will ve upset if I have issues with the game witch I have had in the past with Starforce protected products.

[Sunstar]

It's the security issue that worries me most. If a hacker can use/find loop holes in windows etc - then someone will find a way to exploit the fact that a system with Starforce installed has a set of drivers etc that can grant administrator privileges if they use those drivers etc - to launch their virus.

Question is – if a software protection scheme allows a Trojan etc to get your bank details and it can be proven that the Trojan is what did it and the Trojan used Starforce to gain access. Could you sue the publisher for damages. My guess would be yes. And as the U.S of A. is the litigation capital of the world – and the U.S version has the Starforce software.

How long will it take?

[esd]

Could you sue the publisher for damages. My guess would be yes

You'd be wrong. The EULA clearly indemnifies everyone against any damage caused to your computer, or any financial losses caused by their software.

In fact, almost all EULA's say that.

[Sunstar]

@ Kane Hart

if a publisher was clever enough NOT to use Starforce in Canada. They could make a lot of money selling the game to people like me who will not buy a version with that software protection. Maybe I'll get lucky and the Canadian Version will be the Version to get.

[Lidza]

Many thanks for the insight of this starthing.

Well aside of excellent X3 game.

I don't see the reason why software like that, remains well after removing the game.

I just hope that Egosoft's provides the UNINSTALL that not only removes X3 but also removes all the junk that have been installed on my PC.

Otherwise Egosoft and any other publisher/producer/whatever have lost a customer independant of how good the game is.

Regards

[thrangar]

Hmmm I begining to think that deepsolver has the reigns on this whole X3 distribution thing..Enlight with its wishy washy shipping dates..all copys having SF

Just a gut feeling but I think that US fans if they want a copy of X3 this week you had better order from go



Cheers/Thrangar

[Lidza]

Could you sue the publisher for damages. My guess would be yes

You'd be wrong. The EULA clearly indemnifies everyone against any damage caused to your computer, or any financial losses caused by their software.

In fact, almost all EULA's say that.

Aside the EULA my point is...

If your Install, installs all the pieces, then your uninstall must uninstall everything that has installed. Now does it?

[esd]

If your Install, installs all the pieces, then your uninstall must uninstall everything that has installed.

I've no idea, although 90% of all programs do leave stuff behind when uninstalled.

You can easily remove starforce yourself though - there's a dedicated thread about it stuck to the top of the Tech Support forum.

[The_Abyss]

People though who are paying can't even play.

Absolute nonsense.

Once again, all sorts of posts have been dragged up from all over the internet, putting the Starforce system down. I don't doubt there are users with problems, and of course, these always shout the loudest. But the fact remains, there are none here. The users complaining about it are the ones who have not bought the game and tried it.

If a user has an issue with X3 and Starforce, we have the Tech Support forum. If people want to discuss Starforce and how it will end the world, post it and the evidence on Off Topic. Otherwise, leave this forum please to those that want to discuss the actual playing of the games.

[Lidza]

If your Install, installs all the pieces, then your uninstall must uninstall everything that has installed.

I've no idea, although 90% of all programs do leave stuff behind when uninstalled.

You can easily remove starforce yourself though - there's a dedicated thread about it stuck to the top of the Tech Support forum.

I'm sorry but that is not acceptable.

If you install, you must remove once the game is uninstalled.

[MILLANDSON]

If your Install, installs all the pieces, then your uninstall must uninstall everything that has installed.

I've no idea, although 90% of all programs do leave stuff behind when uninstalled.

You can easily remove starforce yourself though - there's a dedicated thread about it stuck to the top of the Tech Support forum.

I'm sorry but that is not acceptable.

If you install, you must remove once the game is uninstalled.

However, that IS what happens with the vast majority of, if not ALL, games. I, at the moment, have had no problems with StarForce, and IF I ever do, I'll just run McAfee Quickcleaner, which has got rid of such things before. It is a fact of life, deal with it.

[StoneLegionYT]

Ok I will stop posting on the forums about the whole starforce thing.
I will just post this link witch is what everyone really should be posting at

http://www.star-force.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=187

[Sunstar]

Could you sue the publisher for damages. My guess would be yes

You'd be wrong. The EULA clearly indemnifies everyone against any damage caused to your computer, or any financial losses caused by their software.

In fact, almost all EULA's say that.

So what your saying is that - the Starforce people say --

There may be antidotal evidence that the software you are about to install could damage your computer system or make it vulnerable to attack and cause security problems - we don’t care.

If you want to play this game you are going to have to agree that none of this is our fault. No matter what happens. It’s your fault for installing the program we wrote. Even though you have no choice if you want to play the game.

I mean if a salesman tried to sell you a car with the same agreement, you’d laugh him out of the showroom. Starforce is virtually a virus. It replaces system drivers – even though you don’t want it to. And makes you vulnerable to things you don’t want to happen. The only difference is that we PAY them to do it.