Why is the X3 copy protection such a big secret?

mark_t50 · Post by **mark_t50** » Thu, 27. Oct 05, 01:59

Harlock776 wrote:Do you guys know why starforce exists? It was made in europe and is used only in europe because that is where the biggest and most rampant software piracy is going on. Europe is part of the same continent as china and lets not forget peru lol. To software developers starforce is their last hope to make any money at all. Just be glad it's not used anywhere else or you would just have to deal with it.

Not sure if your kidding here, but just to clarify Europe is not part of the same continent as China. Europe is a continent all by itself, China is part of the Asian continent

Also, I'm pretty sure that the worst area for illegal software is also Asia.

martindemon · Post by **martindemon** » Thu, 27. Oct 05, 02:00

Piracy is also rampant in Canada. A few of my friends look at me with a weird look when I tell them I buy games.

I tell them I will play with it for more than 100 hours and still have it and it also have something to do with loyalty to those who worked so hard on it. You know, I'm also a programmer and I understand what creating and debugging is. Those friends of mine insist that they could always give it to me, because they have everything, without exception, that is available for sale in the gaming industry. Those protections do not work! There is always a way around them. If I were a pirate, I could get any game for nothing. But I still buy games because I know it is the only way the system can work. This is my belief, which is the best protection that can exist against piracy. Unfortunately, not everyone do have a conscience.

They think only about themselves. Quite "chaotic neutral" if you ask me... The only way to truly better protect software would sadly be to use usb keys. They would be very hard to emulate or crack. Reverse engineering such a key require more funds that most pirate groups have.

Drainy · Post by **Drainy** » Thu, 27. Oct 05, 02:00

Just be glad it's not used anywhere else or you would just have to deal with it.

Well for a start its actually got offices everywhere (including america) with its HQ in russia!
http://www.star-force.com/protection.phtml?c=67

Secondly, what CBJ said in the post above

Thirdy, Enlight (the US publisher) use starforce on alot of their games, so it still remains to be seen if they use it on X3

Slocket · Post by **Slocket** » Thu, 27. Oct 05, 02:01

Silent Huntert III published by Ubisoft here in the USA was on a DVD with Starforce copy protection. It is not just Europe that uses it.

It is the PUBLISHER that decides what they want to protect their games with. Enlight tends to use older COP because of the cost they are charged for using Starfokce weighed against lost sales due to priacy.

BTY, Silent Hunter III is running just fine on my hard drive without Starforce installed and NO CD.

My original copy is well 'protected' in my closet from damage.

So much for 'protection'. Just a pain for the customer.

Post by **CBJ** » Thu, 27. Oct 05, 02:04

Using a NoCD on a copy-protected game is illegal (unless issued by the developer/publisher of course), as has been discussed ad nauseam. Any further discussion of this will get this thread locked, as seems to inevitably happen with threads about copy protection.

Slocket · Post by **Slocket** » Thu, 27. Oct 05, 02:10

http://www.egosoft.com/download/x2/patches_en.php

Looks like X2 gives it out officially for free.

-----------------------------------------------
This update will remove the copy protection from your X² 1.4 installation. Just extract the X2.exe into your game directory and overwrite the existing file. Make sure you have updated your game to version 1.4 first!

This update is for all language versions of X²: The Threat 1.4!

With this update you will no longer need to have the game CD in your drive to play.

Additionally this will enable users of Windows 64bit Edition to play the game, as the W64-incompatible copy protection driver is no longer required.

This download is only available to users who registered their copy of X² with us. Mirroring this download is prohibited!
---------------------------------------

So does SH 3. The game has been out for ages and the sales is pretty much over. It is not illegal here in the USA

I just like to have my original not get damaged.

esd · Post by **esd** » Thu, 27. Oct 05, 02:14

Looking on the official Silent Hunter III website yielded no results for a legitimate No-CD patch. CBJ's point stands. Further discussion of it will have this thread locked.

Stark1 · Post by **Stark1** » Thu, 27. Oct 05, 02:25

mark_t50 wrote:I think some people want to know if Starforce is being used as it can sometimes cause problems. I've had personal experience of this when I installed GT Legends one week ago. It uses starforce protection and due to a conflict with the version that shiped with the game and the version of Zonealarm I'm using it actually blue screened my PC and I had to do a full rebuild.

I personally don't care what they use, starforce included, it can install whatever it wants on my PC and read anything on my hard drives and registry. I've nothing to hide. I'd just prefere it not to kill my PC.

Does this mean that this "starforce" reads off your hard drive and reports back? Frankly, if that's so, i wouldn't want to put anything with starforce in my computer at all. How long before some bright spark cracks how to retrieve the information. I don't think anyone who banks on the internet would be too comfortable with it. I'm not even sure if doing that is legal....i seem to remember microsoft getting reamed for trying to pull off something like that.

Post by **CBJ** » Thu, 27. Oct 05, 02:30

Reading the contents of your harddrive and reporting back without your consent probably would be illegal. However, this isn't what happens and I can't quite see how you have managed to infer that from the post above. Interference between systems that install themselves at quite low levels within a PC environment is not all that uncommon.

sq_paradox · Post by **sq_paradox** » Thu, 27. Oct 05, 02:40

I think the reason he infered that, is that Zone Alarm allows you complete control over whether a program on your computer has access to the internet, thus if for some reason Starforce was purposely refusing to work as a result of Zone Alarm, one might be able to infer that that is because Starforce does not wish for you to have that level of control. However, it is extremely unlikely that that is the case as I know of other programs that have trouble with Zone Alarm (notably Novell *shudder*). It can be quite a finiky program at times... but I still use it. Not to mention the fact that any such motives for a planned refusal would most likely be illegal.

Stark1 · Post by **Stark1** » Thu, 27. Oct 05, 02:41

It was the piece that read "it can install whatever it wants on my PC and read anything on my hard drives and registry" that had me worried.
I've now read the interview and it made no mention of reporting back. However i'm still a bit bothered that it may not work on my machine because i have nero installed. I use nero often, preparing cd's for my wife to listen to in the car, backing up data etc so it would be a major bug-bear if it was going to insist on having nero removed every time. Will that be the case CBJ as the interview doesn't state which programs this particular copy protection has issues with?

esd · Post by **esd** » Thu, 27. Oct 05, 02:44

Stark1 wrote: the interview doesn't state which programs this particular copy protection has issues with?

This link from the previous page gives some information and/or opinion as to the sort of problems related to Starforce.

Post by **CBJ** » Thu, 27. Oct 05, 02:47

Stark1 wrote:It was the piece that read "it can install whatever it wants on my PC and read anything on my hard drives and registry" that had me worried.

I've now read the interview and it made no mention of reporting back.

Software can read this information but that doesn't mean it can pass the information back to someone else over the internet. Similarly, software can "dial home" for perfectly legitimate reasons such as checking for updates, but it doesn't generally pass information back to do this other than its own version. Whether Starforce does either of these, I don't know, but even if it does both that doesn't mean there is anything dodgy going on.

Stark1 wrote:However i'm still a bit bothered that it may not work on my machine because i have nero installed. I use nero often, preparing cd's for my wife to listen to in the car, backing up data etc so it would be a major bug-bear if it was going to insist on having nero removed every time. Will that be the case CBJ as the interview doesn't state which programs this particular copy protection has issues with?

You don't normally have to uninstall disk-burning software to prevent problems like this; just ensure that the software is not actually running, which sometimes means deactivating any background processes they install. In practice, Nero is as likely to interfere with your audio codecs as it is with any copy protection system.

Stark1 · Post by **Stark1** » Thu, 27. Oct 05, 02:48

Thanks esd

Stark1 · Post by **Stark1** » Thu, 27. Oct 05, 02:54

Ah well....after reading that article i think i'll be wanting to know exactly what copy protection any new game i'm buying uses, and if it's as invasive as starforce i'll just not buy it.
It's a shame that copy protection is necessary....but it is so i don't blame developers for protecting their creations, but equally, they can't expect me to purchase software that is going to inhibit the use of legitimate, legal programs on my computer. I wonder how AHEAD feel about their program being targetted by protection software, legal cases to follow? Probably!

Post by **CBJ** » Thu, 27. Oct 05, 02:58

For balance, I suggest you read the other article also posted earlier in this thread.

Patrocles · Post by **Patrocles** » Thu, 27. Oct 05, 03:09

Duriel_LOP wrote:I believe the starforce drivers have improved somewhat since then, However it is not up to the developer it is up to the publisher, so there is no point in pestering Egosoft about it, pester Deepsilver or Enlight or QV they are the ones who decide CP

ditto! I will wait to find out if Egosoft is using Starforce CP protection. If the game has Starforce I will not buy it.

nicklinn · Post by **nicklinn** » Thu, 27. Oct 05, 03:13

CBJ wrote:For balance, I suggest you read the other article also posted earlier in this thread.

Being one who has been burned by starforce myself I gotta say I love where she blames people's problems with starforce on them "being upset they cannot clone their CDs".

Slocket · Post by **Slocket** » Thu, 27. Oct 05, 03:15

Starforce does place nanny ware onto your computer. The newer version I used caused no problem I am aware of. I have Nero and Alcohol 120, stuff like that. I had no problems. Plus there is a tool on their website at Starforce to remove the nanny ware.

You should not cancel your order if you fear it may ruin your computer. You can blame pirates for the more extreme protection measures.

A new trend from the makers of 'Never Winter Nights' is making you dial up on your Net connection EVERY time you play for verification! It is the new Diamond's edition and the price for it is half the platinum version. Customers are not happy about that move.

nicklinn · Post by **nicklinn** » Thu, 27. Oct 05, 03:25

Slocket wrote:You should not cancel your order if you fear it may ruin your computer. You can blame pirates for the more extreme protection measures.

I am not about to cancel my order, er actually I am not pre-ordering so more accurately I will still buy the game. I have the hard disk space to set up several windows "sandboxes" on my system. It ain't perfect and can be annoying at times but it works. However, blame is one thing but, if the protection causes problems for users why would people take that risk? Like the article from the horse's mouth says (well it isn't exactly true as you cannot entirely disclaim liability in most jurisdictions but I digress) if it messes up it's your problem, not the developer, not the publisher and certainly not Starforce. If I didn’t have a system in place to prevent damage to an install I personally wouldn’t mess with it.

Why is the X3 copy protection such a big secret?

Re: starforce