X2 Vs Freelancer.

General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

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ians
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Post by ians » Tue, 19. Oct 04, 17:10

I like x2 and freelancer

Freelancer seems alot better in fighting because the shooting in the game seems fast the way it should be, in x2 all the weapons apart from Kyon , Psgs weapons seem to be very SLOW in traving so easy you can avoid gun fire in x2. I can fly in any small ship and go to the Xenon sectors and fly around all the capital ships an they cant hit me coz there fire power is really slow and easy to avoid. And freelancer has online.

But do like the way in x2 where you can own lots of different types of ships and stations, even better when the x2 expansion comes out.

Dont get me wrong do like fighting in x2 especialy when you see ai fighting against each other, just the fire rate in x2 seems to be abit slow to me any one agree ??

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Post by giskard » Tue, 19. Oct 04, 20:16

One thing that is worth remembering because it applies equally to mod makers as well as game developers is who ever makes a game or mods it does so with a specific plan in mind.

Any idea that comes along that fits in with that plan has a chance of becoming a feature. Any idea that does not fit into that plan has no chance at all.

So an idea must fit that plan to be acceptable and thus considered.

Lets face it, trade lanes where great for freelancer but they are just not a good X feature. Anybody that adds what he thinks is a good idea without considering the over all plan will end up with a royal mess of a game.

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mrbandwidth
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Post by mrbandwidth » Tue, 19. Oct 04, 20:34

The main difference between X2 and FL is that they are games of different genres: yes, they are settled in space, but X2 is mainly a STRATEGY game, while FL is a TRADE & COMBAT game.

Why?

Because in X2 you are able to own lots of ships at the same time, while FL doesn't allow that. And this simple fact has huge consequences in terms of gameplay. Of course, X2 can be played as FL (not the other way) but I seriously doubt nobody had done that except at the beginning of the game.

As it seems clear that Microsoft won't make new Freelancer games, Egosoft should think seriously in making a spinoff of X games, based in the X Universe but without the RTS elements, to catch this potential market. A game (could be named X-Adventurer or similar to state that it's an X game but not of the same kind of X, X2, Xn...) more centered around your character and your unique ship (you could own several ships, but not at the same time), without micro-management but leaving the alive AI economy of X2 as is. The interface (a major drawback in X2) could then be simplified and polished a lot, as long as you wouldn't have to track lots of owned properties.

I think it's a good idea...

Mr B

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Post by carran » Wed, 20. Oct 04, 09:42

Maybe a good idea but just not going to happen

Personally I'd rather see the X series expanded as planned, what you suggest would require a significant amount of effort to implement ending up with...a FL style game in the X universe?

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Post by misterSpikes » Wed, 20. Oct 04, 10:39

Maybe someone could write a mod for Freelancer that turns all the ships into X ships and the characters into the different races.

the Khaak could be the Nomads, Argons the Liberty folk, Paranid could be Corsairs, etc etc.

It would take some doing, but it might be fun. If I had the first clue how to mod a game I'd have a bash myself.
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Post by mrbandwidth » Wed, 20. Oct 04, 11:05

carran wrote:Maybe a good idea but just not going to happen

Personally I'd rather see the X series expanded as planned, what you suggest would require a significant amount of effort to implement ending up with...a FL style game in the X universe?
Of course it means an effort, but:

1. Egosoft makes X games (an effort too) for MONEY, face it (they are Teladi's ;) ). Freelancer probably earned more money than X2, so it's a good opportunity for profitsss.

2. Settling alternate games in the X Universe too makes easy to share artwork and code between them, so the effort is diminished a bit.

3. The more money Ego earns, the more X games will be able to do.

Is it a risk? Yes; any profitable opportunity it is. But, precisely by setting the plot in the X Universe the risk and effort would be reduced, while the potential market for such a game does exist without doubt.

Me! :twisted:

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Post by darkmaster » Wed, 20. Oct 04, 12:05

Ok, I think this thread shuold be reported to devnet, since there are many good ideas (not the last those of my first post... :D )

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Post by carran » Wed, 20. Oct 04, 12:17

mrbandwidth wrote:
carran wrote:Maybe a good idea but just not going to happen

Personally I'd rather see the X series expanded as planned, what you suggest would require a significant amount of effort to implement ending up with...a FL style game in the X universe?
Of course it means an effort, but:

1. Egosoft makes X games (an effort too) for MONEY, face it (they are Teladi's ;) ). Freelancer probably earned more money than X2, so it's a good opportunity for profitsss.

2. Settling alternate games in the X Universe too makes easy to share artwork and code between them, so the effort is diminished a bit.

3. The more money Ego earns, the more X games will be able to do.

Is it a risk? Yes; any profitable opportunity it is. But, precisely by setting the plot in the X Universe the risk and effort would be reduced, while the potential market for such a game does exist without doubt.

Me! :twisted:
1) FL also took a long time to produce - was it 3 or 5 years? and had the backing of MS which Egosoft doesn't have

2) You have a point except for the effort in producing or using tools to allow this to happen - look at the mods available so far for evidence on how hard this currently is

3) True, however, Egosoft are a small company with limited resources therefore whilst everyone would agree and want more X games (or derivatives) sooner it is very much chicken and egg scenario

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Post by SteveMill » Wed, 20. Oct 04, 12:58

I like both games but for longevity and depth prefer X2. FL is still my favourite FPS/TPS. It's not really a sim worth the name, just a good fun fast blaster that can be very easily modded.

Can't remember which mod I'm playing but you name a sci-fi ship from Voyager to B5 Starfuries and you can buy it and fly it. Great fun.

If there is one thing I'd like stolen for X and that's the radio chatter linked to what ships are doing. But a lot of us said that straight off, way before x2 came out. I'd still like it.

Forget the effort needed to do cut-scenes for us to laugh and point at, if they can't be done to 2004 industry standards they shouldn't be done at all. Replace them with comic book style story boards (using the talented artists on the board) and put the multi-media effort into supporting in-game suspension of disbelief.

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Post by Myo » Wed, 20. Oct 04, 13:10

God, I hate these debates.

As I've said in loads of these arguments all over the place X2 AND FREELANCER ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAMES. Just because they both happen to be set in space does NOT mean that they are trying to out-do each other.

Freelancer is more for arcade style gaming with instant action.

X2 is more for strategy style gaming and only satisfying in the long term.

I personally own them both, and still play them both, as I founded and co-run a Freelancer clan and am a member of an X2 clan. IMHO its the communities which keep games going more than the game.
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Post by misterSpikes » Wed, 20. Oct 04, 13:18

Myo wrote: God, I hate these debates.
That's cos you've taken part in lots of them, maybe a lot of folk here haven't done so before. I agree with you 100%. You're exactly right in what you say about them being completely different games, and about communities such as this keeping games alive. You've expressed your opinion on this before, no doubt as passionately as some here have, let's keep that community spirit and have a bit of patience with those who haven't. :)
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Post by giskard » Wed, 20. Oct 04, 14:55

For the record, Strategy basically means a plan of action. Tactics is how you impliment a strategy, your weapon choices, how you engage the enemy or where you build a factory.

A strategy encompases all of that in one big master plan.

So yes X2 is a strategy game to some players who start a game with a specific goal in mind.

For me it was to occupy the southern sections and build up trade in those areas whilst remaining friendly to the pirates.

Freelancer could also be considered a strategy game but in a very child like way because you just do not have the same level of options in Freelancer as you do in X2. There really is not much difference between planning to buy a ship and actually buying it. Strategy and Tactics are there for almost the same thing in Freelancer.

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Myo
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Post by Myo » Wed, 20. Oct 04, 17:38

Erm, you've kinda got the wrong end of the stick here, misterSpikes. I don't hate them because they happen and that people take part in them, its just that they always seem to end up as a massive row over which is better. :|

Giskard, I see your point, but despite that fact there is a distinctive difference with game classification. Using the same argument, it could be said that Final Fantasy (actually an RPG), Flight Simulator (speaks for itself) or even Halo (FPS) are strategy games because you have a master plan (generally to 'complete the game').

Its an interesting argument, and I agree that there are SOME elements of strategy in Freelancer (as in any game), but I don't think one could honestly classify Freelancer is a strategy/space combat game.
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Post by Whiplash » Thu, 21. Oct 04, 03:07

Xaffax wrote:Freelancer four words: Third person, mouse driven.
YUCK!
I'm sorry if anyone else mentioned this, I was pressed for time and only skimmed the thread, but it is possible in Freelancer to play in first person view. I played all the way through the game in that way. Yes, with some ships, you can get a partially obscurred view from weapons fire, but I didn't face that problem much as I didn't personally use those ships. They are not necessarily the best, mandatory ships.

The mouse control only was a bit of a bummer, but when you play the game, you can see why they did it that way, as there is so much you can interact with on the hud via the mouse. One button takes you in and out of flight mode, so you can quickly interact with the hud.

A bigger problem was the lack of invertable mouse. But that also made sense, since you would use the mouse on the interface.. it would be hard to be using the reverse up / down, and then when you go into mouse mode, you'd be inclined to move the wrong way up or down, etc. I got used to the mouse control within about 30 minutes of play, and found it to work pretty good.
Last edited by Whiplash on Thu, 21. Oct 04, 03:11, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Mightysword » Thu, 21. Oct 04, 03:10

So from what I gather, we want something like this:

- Action like Freelancer.
- Deep and strong game play like X2
- Tactical combat both on space and plantary like Imperium Galactica (which remind me you guys never mention this game :? )
- Super Empire builder like X2.


So...Do you think we will ever get a game that has all those element, I'll pay 100$ for it :lol:

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