X3-TC; Station in Argon Prime destroyed my Trader?

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Celthon
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X3-TC; Station in Argon Prime destroyed my Trader?

Post by Celthon » Tue, 9. Jun 20, 09:45

I'm 'Argon Federation Marshal'-57%...had 3 UT's...little while ago when I was looking for my traders I realized one is no longer listed in my 'Property' page...hunted through msg. log and found msg. indicating it was destroyed in Argon Prime by Light Wpns Complex...same sector I was sitting in, browsing through menus/options while docked at shipyard.

Why would a station in a sector I am on good terms with destroy my Trader? I'm unable to find any other information that would explain 'why' it was destroyed, just the msg. in the log, composed of one brief sentence. Checked 'friend/foe' listings and everyone is labeled 'friend' except Kha'ak.

Thank you for your time and assistance.
Playing X3:TC base game, with Bonus Pack installed...no Mods.
Played for about a month last year, reinstalled the game 6/5/20...so I'm relearning what little I learned before.

Alan Phipps
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Re: X3-TC; Station in Argon Prime destroyed my Trader?

Post by Alan Phipps » Tue, 9. Jun 20, 12:08

You must have been IS with the station and your UT at the time when the ship was busy colliding with the station over and over until it died. Killed by (collision with) the station.
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Celthon
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Re: X3-TC; Station in Argon Prime destroyed my Trader?

Post by Celthon » Tue, 9. Jun 20, 20:08

I played the game for less than a month a year ago, uninstalled it and just reinstalled 3-days ago, so I'm basically relearning everything and am unfamiliar with most of the terminology used in this game:

What is meant by "You must have been IS with the station..."

I was in another ship (Caiman Super Freighter, if I'm remembering the name correctly) docked at the Argon Shipyard in Argon Prime sector.

According to the msg. in the log my Trader was destroyed by "Light Weapons Complex", also in Argon Prime sector.

The Trader was level/rank 22 or 23, and had been trading/traveling without input from me for quite awhile...why would it suddenly run into a station repeatedly until it died, if that is what ocurred?

Thank you for your time and assistance.
Playing X3:TC base game, with Bonus Pack installed...no Mods.
Played for about a month last year, reinstalled the game 6/5/20...so I'm relearning what little I learned before.

Alan Phipps
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Re: X3-TC; Station in Argon Prime destroyed my Trader?

Post by Alan Phipps » Tue, 9. Jun 20, 21:29

IS = In Sector : ie you are personally in the same sector as the ship and station that are colliding. Collision detection only occurs while you are IS and so this cannot happen with you OOS (Out of Sector).

Where this usually happens is when your UT ship is happily docking or undocking with you OOS and then you move IS. The ship all of a sudden finds itself enmeshed with or heading towards station structure that it cannot avoid in time. The more it struggles to get out, the more it can get damaged even to the point that it dies. The best way to avoid this once the damage cycle starts is for you to go OOS again.

It can happen with you staying IS throughout, but that is more rare because the UT ship pilot normally has the skill to avoid the station structure. Nevertheless, it can happen and is usually down to an unfortunate mix of bad luck, a near collison with another ship causing a last-minute course change, and/or a station with a difficult docking approach.
A dog has a master; a cat has domestic staff.

jlehtone
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Re: X3-TC; Station in Argon Prime destroyed my Trader?

Post by jlehtone » Tue, 9. Jun 20, 21:43

But in this case Celthon was IS the whole time, so no sudden changes due to player action.
(Player's entry into a sector tends to throw ships far from other objects just to avoid collisions, but that is not perfect.)

My guess is that there was other (NPC) traffic and the flying routine failed to handle the situation properly, leading to collision which escalated.
The flying routine so notorious that it has acquired nicknames, like "gerbil" and "auto-pillock".


Enabling SETA, particularly x10, does baffle the gerbils significantly.
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Celthon
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Re: X3-TC; Station in Argon Prime destroyed my Trader?

Post by Celthon » Tue, 9. Jun 20, 22:48

Thank you both for clarifications and information.

Yes, I had been docked at the Shipyard for quite awhile...90-minutes to 2-hours (guesstimation) while I browsed through windows/panels re-learning game mechanics/controls. I alt-tabbed out to external sites multiple times...game is set to run in the background. Seta was not enabled.
Alan Phipps wrote:
Tue, 9. Jun 20, 21:29
The best way to avoid this once the damage cycle starts is for you to go OOS again.
If I had been paying attention would there have been an on-screen message alerting me to the problem with the Trader? Are those type of messages/alerts something I would need to enable through in-game options somewhere, or already enabled? I presume that since I was docked in my Caiman Super Freighter I would not have had time to leave the sector, given how slowly it lumbers along.

I write it off as irritating glitch in an old game and move on...Que Sera Sera. Setting up a new Trader will help me re-learn that portion of the game anyway, and I only had 3 at the time so needed to get a few more.

Thank you again for your time and assistance.
Playing X3:TC base game, with Bonus Pack installed...no Mods.
Played for about a month last year, reinstalled the game 6/5/20...so I'm relearning what little I learned before.

Prophet1
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Re: X3-TC; Station in Argon Prime destroyed my Trader?

Post by Prophet1 » Wed, 10. Jun 20, 01:21

If you were just docked the whole time, I would reload and start at that save game where you had just docked. You're trader will still be alive. You will lose a couple hours of UT trading, but worth it to keep your level 22 UT.
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Honved
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Re: X3-TC; Station in Argon Prime destroyed my Trader?

Post by Honved » Tue, 16. Jun 20, 18:53

If you haven't overwritten the quicksave, you could reload, and you'd only lose the time spent at the station. As said, the "auto-pillock" function (mistakenly called "auto-dock" in the game) tends to lose a few ships now and then while docking. That's not a problem if you're OOS (Out of Sector), because collision is disabled, and your ship should be safe.

If your ship hits the station and survives, it can sometimes register as an attack on the station. Your ship may survive the crash, and then be attacked and destroyed by the local patrols or a race military force. The opposite is also a problem, where a civilian ship crashes into your station while you're IS (In Sector), and the murderous station is then attacked before it kills again. That can get completely out of hand if you've got assets assigned to defend the station, and they begin firing at the race response fleet. The only way for your assets to be safe is for you to not be there, but within jump distance in case a hostile ship or fleet shows up and attacks them.

It's also best to sell off any bailed ships that you claim, unless you can be certain that they did not fire at any other ships from the time they spawned to the time they bailed, otherwise you may have race military ships suddenly turn hostile if/when they meet that ship (even days or weeks after you claim it), and then begin attacking all of your other assets as well until that ship is destroyed. Once again, ships set to defend your assets may fire back, escalating the problem into a war between you and that race. I've had several games go belly up in that manner, and had to reload a previous save and dispose of or relocate the offending asset before it could provoke a war.

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