X3: TC first successful boarding, hired TL

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RainerPrem
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Re: X3: TC first successful boarding, hired TL

Post by RainerPrem » Tue, 23. Oct 18, 05:24

Fezder wrote:
Mon, 22. Oct 18, 11:37
I've taken small break from capping since I'm trying to do that hub plot, only 15k or so chips left. As for topic in hand, I noticed that even though M7 class can hold marines, there are no piracy option for it (launch all marines as for spacewalk). Do marines find their way if I just toss them out of freightbay? Seems odd why M7 then could hold marines if it can't actually use them (apart from expensive storage)
I'm getting ship for using ion disruptors, thinking about centaur-something. Question about ion disruptors, are more better regarding odds of equipment destruction, and must shields be depleted before equipment destruction?

Edit: yes, now I know better where to lure those TL:s for now. Unknown sector east from PTNI seems like good place, since PTNI HQ is nearby, which has albatross, and omicron lyrae, has mammoth.
Hi,

all ships of class TM and larger can hold marines, because they can be boarded, not because they can board.

Spacewalk is only possible with TPs.

cu
Rainer

Alan Phipps
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Re: X3: TC first successful boarding, hired TL

Post by Alan Phipps » Tue, 23. Oct 18, 12:45

… and M6s (although the latter are not always recommended for boarding big ships but are usually OK for boarding other M6s and TMs).
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DrSuperEvil
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Re: X3: TC first successful boarding, hired TL

Post by DrSuperEvil » Tue, 23. Oct 18, 13:35

On transfer of ship ownership there is a 90% chance to destroy lasers and shields while the rest of the freight kept is random so marine skill does not factor in. You can save at the hacking stage to reroll wares kept.

Capital ships can hold marines to increase their boarding resistance in case they are boarded by enemy marines. Only TP, M6 and M7M can initiate boarding.

Ion disruptors are the weapon of choice for equipment damage since they do low hull damage and have a high fire rate. Equipment destruction is calculated on hull damage so Mass Drivers can strip stuff through shields.

Heavy Centaur Prototype is a good all rounder while for using ion disruptors on capital ships the Griffon Sentinel is the best boarding prep ship.

RainerPrem
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Re: X3: TC first successful boarding, hired TL

Post by RainerPrem » Tue, 23. Oct 18, 13:49

DrSuperEvil wrote:
Tue, 23. Oct 18, 13:35
On transfer of ship ownership there is a 90% chance to destroy lasers and shields while the rest of the freight kept is random so marine skill does not factor in. You can save at the hacking stage to reroll wares kept.
Hi,

This is my collected experience:

Damaging hull destroys equipment. The more damage the less equipment exists to be randomly kept, when ownership transfers. The less engineering skill the marines have, the bigger the hull damage is. In X3TC you can get ships with 100% hull, when all marines are at 100% engineering. In X3AP there is always at least 1% of damage.

cu
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Alan Phipps
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Re: X3: TC first successful boarding, hired TL

Post by Alan Phipps » Tue, 23. Oct 18, 14:37

"In X3AP there is always at least 1% of damage." I haven't seen that in vanilla X3AP and have often boarded and captured capitals with intact 100% hull using fully trained marines. Perhaps your marines were all 5 stars at engineering but not all actually at 100% trained? It can only take one or two like that to cause a one percent drop in hull to be shown - and even if the hull point damage is relatively miniscule.
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SirNukes
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Re: X3: TC first successful boarding, hired TL

Post by SirNukes » Tue, 23. Oct 18, 20:50

RainerPrem wrote:
Tue, 23. Oct 18, 13:49
Damaging hull destroys equipment. The more damage the less equipment exists to be randomly kept, when ownership transfers.
Boarding shares code with npc pilot ejection, calling SHIP.DowngradeTakeOver. Each laser, shield, or missile type has a 90% chance to be completely removed, with the exception of Khaak ships only losing lasers 50% of the time (not very important for vanilla AP). Other wares, including software and tunings, use doubled randomization for how many to keep: random(random(ware count +1) +1). So around 75% loss for other wares.

However, after some poking around, I think you aren't wrong about the hull damage. Boarding, after marine engineering score calculations and such, applies damage through a call to Hit, which calls HitDamage, which calls MakeDamage, which has the extra damage-based equipment destruction code. Those losses would occur during the boarding stages.

RainerPrem
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Re: X3: TC first successful boarding, hired TL

Post by RainerPrem » Wed, 24. Oct 18, 05:45

Alan Phipps wrote:
Tue, 23. Oct 18, 14:37
"In X3AP there is always at least 1% of damage." I haven't seen that in vanilla X3AP and have often boarded and captured capitals with intact 100% hull using fully trained marines. Perhaps your marines were all 5 stars at engineering but not all actually at 100% trained? It can only take one or two like that to cause a one percent drop in hull to be shown - and even if the hull point damage is relatively miniscule.
Hi,

this is correct. I never played the game long enough to get all my marines to 100% trained. I only see the 1%-drop always and immediately on breaking the hull.

cu
Rainer

Fezder
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Re: X3: TC first successful boarding, hired TL

Post by Fezder » Wed, 24. Oct 18, 09:53

Right, hub and HQ plot completed, so back to boarding issue. Finally was lucky with boarding, yaki Ryu that had 8x incendiary bomb launchers and orca with 8x concussion impulse generators!
Ryu was harder due all small yakis' arond with those flamers....
Ion disruptors doesn't seem to destroy equipment that well, or I'ts very random. Had 6x of them on heavy centaur prototype, and even after no shields, no luck destroying any of those CIGs' on orca.
Also wasted time with albatross, can't see much value for TL...

Seems that the biggest helper with boarding pods is to exploit any blind spot. Then again, I've seen some ships thas has turrets pretty much everywhere, so blind spot is not viable tactic with them amymore...gotta learn how to deal with those turrets with flails or something.

DrSuperEvil
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Re: X3: TC first successful boarding, hired TL

Post by DrSuperEvil » Wed, 24. Oct 18, 13:38

Ion disruptors are the most efficient way to remove equipment. Each equipment destruction check only has a 10 % chance to destroy a weapon in a random slot. This includes picking empty slots so it takes patience to strip more heavily armed ships. NPCs do tend to focus on the player ship with turrets and ignore supporting ship launched boarding pods.

Fezder
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Re: X3: TC first successful boarding, hired TL

Post by Fezder » Wed, 24. Oct 18, 15:01

Ah, yet another reason to learn multitasking. Gotta try this out!

Honved
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Re: X3: TC first successful boarding, hired TL

Post by Honved » Wed, 24. Oct 18, 18:32

I've found that a handful of combat drones make an excellent distraction. Normally, flail missiles impact pretty quickly against a larger target, so they're only a brief distraction for the turrets. Combat drones tend to live longer (they're not TRYING to crash into the target), meaning less of them needed in the long run. They don't do a lot of damage to a capital ship's level of shielding, so hull damage is rarely an issue. That frees up your M7M to waste less Hammers to drop the shields due to being shot down, and not lose a lot of very pricey boarding pods (the pods are cheap enough, but the contents...) on their way to target. One or two last-minute flails can still be a good idea, for a bit of additional cover for your marines when it matters most.

AleksMain
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Re: X3: TC first successful boarding, hired TL

Post by AleksMain » Wed, 24. Oct 18, 19:01

Honved wrote:
Wed, 24. Oct 18, 18:32
I've found that a handful of combat drones make an excellent distraction. Normally, flail missiles impact pretty quickly against a larger target, so they're only a brief distraction for the turrets. Combat drones tend to live longer (they're not TRYING to crash into the target), meaning less of them needed in the long run. They don't do a lot of damage to a capital ship's level of shielding, so hull damage is rarely an issue. That frees up your M7M to waste less Hammers to drop the shields due to being shot down, and not lose a lot of very pricey boarding pods (the pods are cheap enough, but the contents...) on their way to target. One or two last-minute flails can still be a good idea, for a bit of additional cover for your marines when it matters most.
In my opinion it is not necessary to cover boarding pods with too many Flail Barrage Missiles.

If your ship is far enough from the target, then you don't care usually about turrets of the boarded ship.

Since you send boarding pods when shields of the boarded ship are low, then you can't send too many Flail Barrage Missiles, covering boarding pods anyway.

For smaller ships this can cause destruction of boarded ship.

If you do not intend to destroy some dangerous equipment of the boarded ship, then you fire Flail Barrage Missiles to suppress shield regeneration only during flight of the boarding pods (one missile per few seconds, for example). Once marines have penetrated the hull of the boarded ship, you don't need to fire any more missiles.

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And I want to add some information about boarding of the enemy ships using Cobra.

If you attack enemy ships with Flail Barrage Missiles you must maintain safe distance from them, which is defined by weapon range of the enemy ships and weapon range of your own Cobra.

Few shots of Rear Turret of your own Cobra can destroy small boarded ship, larger enemy ships can damage your own vessel too.

Cobra has speed 97 m/s.

But, boarded ships can have speed more than it:
Pirate Carrack can have speed up to 106.2 m/s,
Pirate Centaur can have speed up to 126 m/s,
Yaki Chokaro can have speed up to 154 m/s, etc.

To maintain safe distance you can use strafe drives and maximum speed of the Cobra can be up to 119 m/s because of them.

If you can't outrun boarded ship, then you can use jump drive to jump to some gate of the sector and increase distance.

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Re: X3: TC first successful boarding, hired TL

Post by jlehtone » Wed, 24. Oct 18, 20:54

DrSuperEvil wrote:
Wed, 24. Oct 18, 13:38
Ion disruptors are the most efficient way to remove equipment. ... NPCs do tend to focus on the player ship with turrets and ignore supporting ship launched boarding pods.
X3TC and X3AP turrets differ in effectiveness, don't they? I think I've seen fighters shoot at incoming missiles with their fixed front guns too, in AP. In other words, it was easier to slip pods/EVA in TC?


In current AP game I do harass the mark in Dragon. Draw attention and keep shields down. Might use Wasps as additional distraction. Initial dent to shields comes from distant Cobra, if necessary. Big targets get pods from Sirokos; it can send 21 marines, unlike the Cobra.

If there are Plating/Sentries/Firewall to fry, then Griffon replaces the Dragon. All-out IonD, and missiles to keep the shield down. Was getting Griffon special in TC?
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ajime
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Re: X3: TC first successful boarding, hired TL

Post by ajime » Thu, 25. Oct 18, 05:09

jlehtone wrote:
Wed, 24. Oct 18, 20:54
DrSuperEvil wrote:
Wed, 24. Oct 18, 13:38
Ion disruptors are the most efficient way to remove equipment. ... NPCs do tend to focus on the player ship with turrets and ignore supporting ship launched boarding pods.
X3TC and X3AP turrets differ in effectiveness, don't they? I think I've seen fighters shoot at incoming missiles with their fixed front guns too, in AP. In other words, it was easier to slip pods/EVA in TC?


In current AP game I do harass the mark in Dragon. Draw attention and keep shields down. Might use Wasps as additional distraction. Initial dent to shields comes from distant Cobra, if necessary. Big targets get pods from Sirokos; it can send 21 marines, unlike the Cobra.

If there are Plating/Sentries/Firewall to fry, then Griffon replaces the Dragon. All-out IonD, and missiles to keep the shield down. Was getting Griffon special in TC?
griffon is plot only in tc think. I don't see much difference in turret reaction between TC and AP tbh. if u fire ur wasps / flails first, it'll confuse the turrets and they have the effect of extremely reduced fire rates long as the missiles are still in flight. i usually use this tactic to get close for Clash of the Titans action or fleeing from heavy death flak. So it is more effective not to be too close when shooting them and give ample time for boarding pods not get shot.

Honved
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Re: X3: TC first successful boarding, hired TL

Post by Honved » Fri, 26. Oct 18, 16:57

AleksMain wrote:
Wed, 24. Oct 18, 19:01
Once marines have penetrated the hull of the boarded ship, you don't need to fire any more missiles.
Once marines are on the surface of the boarding target, you don't need to fire any more missiles, EXCEPT to keep the shields suppressed. They're safe from turret fire. Depending on target, that may best be done with Flails, Hammers, Wasps, Fighter Drones, or good old fashioned gunfire. Once they breach the hull, as you say, no further fire is needed.

Incidentally, getting a boarding target to chase you, and then blowing up a sizable rock as the target approaches it, can either take its shields down quickly or destroy the target. Depends on relative sizes of target and rock.

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