Few simple questions of a newbie

General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum

SirNukes
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat, 31. Mar 07, 23:44
x4

Post by SirNukes » Thu, 23. Aug 18, 04:15

OOS combat is not properly documented and has changed between TC and AP, so there can be a lot of confusion on how it works. I will try my best to help out based on my own understanding, but may not be 100% accurate either.
Honved wrote: OOS combat is resolved at longer time intervals. The faster ship fires first, fires ALL of its guns once, and if the opponent survives, it then fires back with all of its own weapons.
I think the ship that fires first is whichever gets the first turn where it moves into range and fires. If two ships are heading for each other, the faster one is more likely to get that first attack, but it really depends on how positions line up. If only one ship is attacking and the other is doing some misc job, the attacker will get the first shot. A simple test: attack an idle Q with a Boreas; the Boreas will get a round of fire for free, and will only take its first damage on the second round.
Honved wrote:Rate of fire does not matter, each gun fires only once.
Rate of fire is included in OOS damage calculation. If you mod a weapon to have 10x higher RoF, you will see 10x higher OOS damage. (I used to also think RoF might not matter, until I modded it to test it myself.)
DrSuperEvil wrote: 2: OOS combat is simplified in that lasers do not require energy to fire and are assumed to all have 10km range.
Range is generally ignored; ships move to within 500 meters and attack. Laser towers have extended range (Plasma Beam Cannon range + 500 meters), and I recall reading orbital platforms do as well (though I never owned one of those to motivate testing it, and didn't see anything for this in the code I've looked at).
DrSuperEvil wrote:The damage dealt by lasers uses different values per second and ignores effects like multiple hit and fragmentation.
Multi-hit is somewhat factored in, since OOS bullet damage is set differently than IS. For instance, Plasma Burst Generator damage assumes 20x hits when OOS, bringing it up to around 2/3 of HEPT OOS damage.
DrSuperEvil wrote:Each round of combat is every 10 seconds if you are not looking at the sector using the sector map and every 3 secdons if you are.
I think it is as pjknibbs said, 30 seconds when not watching, 5 seconds when watching. Or that is the intention; in practice, a round of combat occurs whenever the sector updates, which will be: when you open the sector map, 5 seconds after the last update if you are watching the sector map, 30 seconds after the last update if you stopped watching the sector map. Combat rounds are not adjusted for how much time actually passed.

This gives rise to some oddities, like rapidly opening/closing the sector map to greatly accelerate OOS combat, or shield regeneration overpowering weapon fire during 30 second rounds. In my experience, if a trader comes under attack and has a script that is capable of retreating (most trader scripts are), then you should avoid opening that trader's sector map and triggering another combat round. The trader has a much better chance of escaping if it can get a full 30 seconds to regenerate shields and move away or jump before the next combat round occurs.

(Side note: I have some test notes from a while back that experienced 60 second OOS combat rounds when not watching, though a recent retest was seeing 30 seconds. So I am not 100% sure on what was going on there.)


A couple other things worth mentioning:

A missile fired in an OOS combat round will suppress normal laser fire. Since one missile is often less damage (maybe drastically so) than several seconds of laser batter fire, you generally want to avoid equipping OOS ships with weaker missiles, and should probably avoid missiles on M1 or M2 ships altogether. Mosquitoes are okay; they have low enough damage to not be used for combat.

Traders that get attacked OOS may turn to fight if they are equipped with any lasers. Unarmed traders do a better job fleeing. This may be less of an issue with jump capable ships; I don't use those enough to really know.

DrSuperEvil
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 425
Joined: Fri, 2. Mar 18, 12:13
x4

Post by DrSuperEvil » Thu, 23. Aug 18, 13:35

Do not forget they hold the monopoly on Tractor Beam manufacture too.

Triaxx2
Posts: 7229
Joined: Tue, 29. Dec 09, 02:15
x4

Post by Triaxx2 » Thu, 23. Aug 18, 13:46

While that's true, if you're actively engaged in piracy, waiting in Haktikvah's Faith for a High-Tech Trader heading for the north gate will eventually yield a bounty of Tractor Beams. :P
A Pirate's Revenge Completed Now in PDF by _Zap_
APR Book 2: Best Served Cold Updated 8/5/2016

The Tale of Ea't s'Quid Completed

Dovie'andi se tovya sagain

DrSuperEvil
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 425
Joined: Fri, 2. Mar 18, 12:13
x4

Post by DrSuperEvil » Thu, 23. Aug 18, 21:28

That is strange because OOS I find the defenders have the advantage since the opponent takes an update moving while my ships get a round of fire in.

OOS ships still take the same damage per unit time if viewed in the sector map or not but with longer intervals there is a higher chance to be able to jump to safety. I have encountered situations where if i use the sector map to try to jump a ship out it dies yet if I use the property menu it survives with same times in giving the commands.

I frequently raid argon TS ships in Hatikvah's Faith and never have had a tractor beam drop.

Timsup2nothin
Posts: 4690
Joined: Thu, 22. Jan 09, 17:49

Post by Timsup2nothin » Thu, 23. Aug 18, 22:04

DrSuperEvil wrote: I frequently raid argon TS ships in Hatikvah's Faith and never have had a tractor beam drop.
I drop a satellite or a scout ship where I can watch the TB factories and see who picks them up, then mark them for death. I get tractor beams by drop method in pretty much every game. One for me, sell the rest makes the effort of checking the sat every now and then worth while.
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!

DrSuperEvil
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 425
Joined: Fri, 2. Mar 18, 12:13
x4

Post by DrSuperEvil » Fri, 24. Aug 18, 00:13

Assuming GOD does not remove all the factories.

Also that assumes the race you are pirating is at least neutral.

Timsup2nothin
Posts: 4690
Joined: Thu, 22. Jan 09, 17:49

Post by Timsup2nothin » Fri, 24. Aug 18, 00:58

DrSuperEvil wrote: Also that assumes the race you are pirating is at least neutral.
:?

I don't follow this part.


The disappearing factories are a problem though. If they sit with a full inventory of TBs for too long I blow them up myself and try to find one in the wreckage.
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!

DrSuperEvil
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 425
Joined: Fri, 2. Mar 18, 12:13
x4

Post by DrSuperEvil » Fri, 24. Aug 18, 11:21

Very hard to have satellites in hostile sectors.

Timsup2nothin
Posts: 4690
Joined: Thu, 22. Jan 09, 17:49

Post by Timsup2nothin » Fri, 24. Aug 18, 20:38

DrSuperEvil wrote:Very hard to have satellites in hostile sectors.
Ah. Yeah, I use scout ships more than satellites. Drop in to take a look, fly to the far reaches to wait. Occasional losses are a cost of doing business, but a single load of tractor beams will buy a whole lot of M5s. When I'm in that mode I monitor a fair number of sectors that generate good loads.
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!

jlehtone
Posts: 21809
Joined: Sat, 23. Apr 05, 21:42
x4

Post by jlehtone » Fri, 24. Aug 18, 22:04

"Stay on target." :goner:


Takeaway messages:
* You can remotely both control your assets and observe the NPC. A lot of [trade empire] management is OOS.
* NPC are rather predictable.
* There are usually more than one way to get everything (but Goner insurance?)
Goner Pancake Protector X
Insanity included at no extra charge.
There is no Box. I am the sand.

DrSuperEvil
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 425
Joined: Fri, 2. Mar 18, 12:13
x4

Post by DrSuperEvil » Sat, 25. Aug 18, 21:02

Got to use Salvage Insurance to make sure the RNG does not give you miserable rolls. Nothing worse than losing most of your marines to an abandoned ship.

Triaxx2
Posts: 7229
Joined: Tue, 29. Dec 09, 02:15
x4

Post by Triaxx2 » Sun, 26. Aug 18, 15:50

The tractor beams on a ship spawn whether or not the factories are in existence, and it's always on Paranid High-Tech traders.

Though the cargo scanner can also help with that.
A Pirate's Revenge Completed Now in PDF by _Zap_
APR Book 2: Best Served Cold Updated 8/5/2016

The Tale of Ea't s'Quid Completed

Dovie'andi se tovya sagain

DrSuperEvil
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 425
Joined: Fri, 2. Mar 18, 12:13
x4

Post by DrSuperEvil » Mon, 27. Aug 18, 23:19

All Weapons and Hi-Tech traders can spawn with it just the chances are extremely low.

Triaxx2
Posts: 7229
Joined: Tue, 29. Dec 09, 02:15
x4

Post by Triaxx2 » Mon, 27. Aug 18, 23:34

I've never seen any of them except a Paranid High-Tech heading from the South Gate to the North Gate in Haktikvah's faith carrying them, but I suppose it's possible.
A Pirate's Revenge Completed Now in PDF by _Zap_
APR Book 2: Best Served Cold Updated 8/5/2016

The Tale of Ea't s'Quid Completed

Dovie'andi se tovya sagain

Timsup2nothin
Posts: 4690
Joined: Thu, 22. Jan 09, 17:49

Post by Timsup2nothin » Tue, 28. Aug 18, 01:10

Triaxx2 wrote:I've never seen any of them except a Paranid High-Tech heading from the South Gate to the North Gate in Haktikvah's faith carrying them, but I suppose it's possible.
At a guess, they didn't spawn with them, they bought them.
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!

Triaxx2
Posts: 7229
Joined: Tue, 29. Dec 09, 02:15
x4

Post by Triaxx2 » Wed, 29. Aug 18, 23:08

Maybe, but I usually see them after the factories have been removed. Usually by GOD, occasionally by me.
A Pirate's Revenge Completed Now in PDF by _Zap_
APR Book 2: Best Served Cold Updated 8/5/2016

The Tale of Ea't s'Quid Completed

Dovie'andi se tovya sagain

Szutyo
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun, 19. Aug 18, 22:13

Re: More

Post by Szutyo » Sat, 1. Sep 18, 12:45

Bill Huntington wrote:Pirates. [...] But soon you'll observe that having a bad pirate reputation will make the AP universe unsafe for you but especially for all your traders and even your stations. Just restart a new game when this hits you in the face. Sometimes you have to kill them but do missions for them when you do. A good reputation with the pirates pays off with few attacks and other ways too. The Yaki even more so.
When I start a new game in AP, Pirates are Neutral to everybody except me.
My notoriety value with them is -3, status is Enemy and Notoriety Points is -10000, according to a script.
This is right from the very first second of a new game.
Is this normal?
How am I supposed to have a good rep with them when I start so low, they attack me on sight and all pirate assets are red on my radar and map.


I have another question about installing mods that change some values in a ship's property, like max speed or cargo capacity.
Do I have to start a new game for something like this to take effect or will my already bought ships have the new value, maybe only the ships bought after the mods activation will have the changed stats?


edit: Also, would someone point me to a good link where I can read about the x3 background, story of TC and AP?

Thank you!

DrSuperEvil
Moderator (English)
Moderator (English)
Posts: 425
Joined: Fri, 2. Mar 18, 12:13
x4

Post by DrSuperEvil » Sat, 1. Sep 18, 14:28

There are only two starting scenarios where the pirates are not hostile at the start of the game. Pirate Bases (eg. Astraeu's Clouds) still allow the player to dock until -4 while all other pirate owned stations follow normal docking restrictions.

At -3 race rank you can still get rep boosts from missions. Pirate mission givers will spawn on stations owned by other races within 2 jumps of a pirate owned sector. Freedom's Reach is good because the only station is within comm distance of the jump gate making it easy to force missions to spawn by repeatedly going through the gate. Pirates usually give courier (needs a Springblossom), taxi (needs a Cargo Lifesupport System) and wares needed (up to 150 food, usually Majaglit) type missions so are quite easy to complete.

Alternatively you can set up an illegals complex in Hatikvah's Faith 40km above a gate and let disguised pirates and other NPC ships buy the spaceweed/fuel generating pirate rep with each transaction and a bonus if it is a pirate making the purchase.

The third option is to do boarding and capping of NPC ships in pirate owned sectors sacrificing some race rank of other races to gain pirate race rank.

In general I jump between Freedom's Reach and Company Pride with a Kestrel/Discoverer and do taxi missions. You can get pirates friendly within 30 mins this way if you have not shot any up (ie fight missions).

jlehtone
Posts: 21809
Joined: Sat, 23. Apr 05, 21:42
x4

Post by jlehtone » Sat, 1. Sep 18, 17:22

DrSuperEvil wrote:Pirate Bases (eg. Astraeu's Clouds) still allow the player to dock until -4
Pirates and Teladi value credits more than following the official embargo policy. Easy to please too.


Faction Military does eagerly attack stations owned by Pirates, even in foreign sectors. Hence the Bases tend to relocate rather quickly/frequently.

Trading Stations do have often "Bring me N units of Y." Pirate clients. Some Y are illegal, but some -- like the Massom -- legit.
Goner Pancake Protector X
Insanity included at no extra charge.
There is no Box. I am the sand.

Timsup2nothin
Posts: 4690
Joined: Thu, 22. Jan 09, 17:49

Re: More

Post by Timsup2nothin » Sat, 1. Sep 18, 21:27

Szutyo wrote:
When I start a new game in AP, Pirates are Neutral to everybody except me.
My notoriety value with them is -3, status is Enemy and Notoriety Points is -10000, according to a script.
This is right from the very first second of a new game.
Is this normal?
How am I supposed to have a good rep with them when I start so low, they attack me on sight and all pirate assets are red on my radar and map.

Thank you!
Pirates like smugglers. If you look at the guide in my sig it will tell you about how to "trap" a product. I almost always set such a trap on a space fuel distillery, which gives me a reliable supply of space fuel.

Fast moving ships with CLS pilots can make runs from the trap to pirate bases in race space, which buy at max price and make this operation a high percentage profit, although the throughput is too low for it to be high yield. What it does provide is an automated steady drip of pirate good will.

Avoid conflicts with pirates, like station defense missions and such, and after a while they will be more tolerant. Once they reach a reasonable level the steady drip will compensate for the occasional conflicts.
Trapper Tim's Guide to CLS 2

On Her Majesty's Secret Service-Dead is Dead, and he is DEAD

Not a DiD, so I guess it's a DiDn't, the story of my first try at AP
Part One, in progress

HEY! AP!! That's new!!!

Post Reply

Return to “X Trilogy Universe”