Hyperion ?

[PowerTrip]

How do I get the Hyperion in a vanilla game? I did find one in Desecrated Skies but the pilot wont abandon stupidity,,, he keeps dying for the ship... how do I take it from him or can I?

[X2-Illuminatus]

You have to board the ship using Marines.

[RAVEN.myst]

There's an alternative method, which gets you a souped up version of the ship, but you have to start from scratch, with a specific game start (Poisoned Paranid), which first requires unlocking via completing the opening mission of another specific game start (Tormented Teladi.) Otherwise, it's as Illuminatus says - you have to board it (the Hyperion isn't the easiest ship to board, it's a bit of a challenge, but definitely doable.) All ships from corvette upward (as well as TMs) require boarding, they don't bail (they notionally don't have single pilots, but rather ship crews, I guess.)

Warning: The Hyperion is an exceptionally good ship - so much so, that you may well spend the bulk of the rest of your playing time in it. How might this be bad? Well, for one thing, that may well deprive you of experiencing other ship options, of which there are many indeed. Also, it's so good that it's almost too powerful (scratch the "too" there, in my case), meaning that it makes the game a lot easier - but if that's your speed, then all's good.

[PowerTrip]

which brings up another question. I have about 20 boarding pods and about 50 marines. what does a decent boarding raid look like and how do you use boarding pods?

[fireanddream]

Reeeeaaad dem faqs, boi. Contrary to public belief the faq section is pretty good.

[Thrake]

which brings up another question. I have about 20 boarding pods and about 50 marines. what does a decent boarding raid look like and how do you use boarding pods?

Quality>quantity. Time for some push-ups I guess.

[jlehtone]

The FAQ (link in X2-Illuminatus post) needs a tiny update:
"Acinonyx Prototype can launch Pods too"


Define "decent".

[Honved]

[quote="PowerTrip"]which brings up another question. I have about 20 boarding pods and about 50 marines. what does a decent boarding raid look like and how do you use boarding pods?[/quote]
Basic boarding operation:

Knock down the target's shields with missiles or a bigger ship.
Launch swarm missiles or fighter drones to distract turrets.
Launch marines in boarding pods from M7M missile frigate.
Keep target's shields depressed to under 10% until marines breach the hull.
Wait until your marines clear the various decks and hack the core.
Reload if/when it all goes wrong and you lose a dozen expensive marines.

If you don't have an M7M, it gets a lot harder. You need to launch marines directly in the path of the target (it will try to evade) while it shoots at you. Expect MANY reloads.

[Reven]

While that particular game start will get you an overtuned Hyperion, that's not the only way to get a hyperion that is overtuned. There are some engine tunings scattered throughout the game that you can use to overtune the ship in other game starts. Of course, if you start with a Hyperion already overtuned to 250m/s (which I think is close to the max you can get) and then grab some of those scattered engine tunings on top of that, you can end up with a hellishly fast ship.

The Hyperion, in addition to making a fantastic player ship, is also a great force multiplier if you reverse engineer them and build them for use with a Kyoto destroyer. The Kyoto has a six ship hangar which can, unlike almost any other ship in the game, hold M6s. Since the Hyperion can itself hold two M3+s, this means you can use it to expand the docking bay of a Kyoto from 6 to 18 ships.

I disagree that the ship is overpowered, though. In X3R the Hyperion was a little OP, it had 3GJ of shielding then, but then again it was an end-game ship you could only obtain when it really couldn't do you any good anyways. The current hyperion is definitely a made-for-player ship, but balanced in that without a lot of missiles it isn't an everything killer like the original was.

[RAVEN.myst]

I disagree that the ship is overpowered, though.

I WAS going to leave it alone, I really was... but it ended up bugging me OK, so, the STANDARD (non-overtuned) Hyperion is a ship with:
- M3 speed (choose when, where, and whether to fight - that's situational control, as well as survivability, and options)
- M6+ shielding (toughness, survivability)
- M6+ firepower and then some (power, domination)
- TS cargobay (options)
- partial TM capability (options)

And that's just the garden-variety version (but I won't touch the overtuned one, because that one's overpowered by definition, and is meant to be - fair enough. Just as it was in X3R, as you point out.) How is the above combination of several ship classes' strengths/specialisations not an overpowered amalgam? You're right, it isn't overpowered: as far as I'm concerned, it's horrifically overpowered! (I get bored playing with toys superior to those of my competition - bullying is not fun for me, in either direction. If I play pool using a nice cue, my opponent better not be playing with a house stick - I'll let him use mine if necessary!) The other "player favourite" (and again a ship I avoid, even more so than the Hyper, given its speed, which to me is the primary determiner of "powerfulness") is the Springy:
- M5 speed (as Hyper, only even more so)
- M6 shielding (here at least we have representative rather than best-in-class)
- firepower approaching that of M7 (!)
- cargobay on same order of magnitude as TS - smaller, but still larger than any other M6 or even any TM (besides Chokaro - special case, that one) other than the Hyper

Again, horrible overpower (yes, I know it wasn't the one under discussion, but it compares...)

The current hyperion is definitely a made-for-player ship,

Undeniably so - at least, made for player who wants to feel god-like (and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that - but that's not my cup of tea.) Or who doesn't want the "hassle" of finding different ships for different jobs...

but balanced in that without a lot of missiles it isn't an everything killer like the original was.

Slightly so - in the Hyper, I can kill Js without breaking a sweat, without using missiles (well, the occasional Tornado or Hornet would come in handy in X3AP, where the hulls are thicker, just to save time.) Qs fall like skittles to a Hyper, easily taking on 3 or 4 at a time (I've just played a Poisoned Paranid X3TC gamestart, to see how I would do these days with raising the 25kk for the entree mission [turns out it's still trivially easy, without exploits or external-to-character knowledge, in a fraction of the allocated time], so the experiences are still very fresh in my mind; I got an average one with speed of 209 on my first roll, and it was enough to make the game boringly easy and then some - which was useful for my secondary goal, to unlock the remaining gamestarts that were gated behind my latest system reinstall "thanks to" a HDD crash... )

Please bear in mind, the above is all (obviously) nothing more than my personal subjective opinion on the matter. Though when you consider that the Hyper combines the specializations of several ship classes, this is objectively a compelling indication that its power level is more than just "well above the norm" - and isn't that the very definition of "overpowered"? Also, in a single-player, non-competitive environment, something being "overpowered" is not necessarily a bad thing - those who (such as me) don't like that, simply avoid it, while those who enjoy it, have the option to - everybody wins.

In fact, in ultimately practical terms, I guess the term "overpowered" is both true and utterly meaningless in this context... So perhaps the bottom line is that (in my opinion) it is *completely* overpowered - but it doesn't matter!

[X2-Illuminatus]

The FAQ (link in X2-Illuminatus post) needs a tiny update:
"Acinonyx Prototype can launch Pods too"

Updated.

[PowerTrip]

Thanks for all the input...you guys are awesome.....

[Reven]

I WAS going to leave it alone, I really was... but it ended up bugging me OK, so, the STANDARD (non-overtuned) Hyperion is a ship with:
- M3 speed (choose when, where, and whether to fight - that's situational control, as well as survivability, and options)
- M6+ shielding (toughness, survivability)
- M6+ firepower and then some (power, domination)
- TS cargobay (options)
- partial TM capability (options)

The Hyperion is a fantastic ship, you have no argument from me. It was never intended to be a completely well balanced ship, but it's hardly a pure warfighter either. The Acinonyx Prototype is arguably a more overpowered ship with its combination of speed that beats the Hyperion, amazing missile compatibility (including M7M-specialties like the Hammer HT and boarding pod), and 12 forward cannons. The Vidar and Vali are both candidates as very strong M6/M6+s. And in pure warfighting capacity, any single M7M will turn a Hyperion (and every other ship in the sector) into a rapidly expanding ball of gas faster than you can say thermonuclear warhead.

What makes the Hyperion so coveted are some of the things that appeal strongly to the player but aren't things that necessarily make it overpowered. For those of us who spent a lot of time in X², we like our largish player ships to have hangars. It is just so useful to send out a scout to map that sector ahead, or to drop a nav sat. I feel like I have an arm cut off in a ship with no hangar. This is something Egosoft really put the brakes on in later revisions, I think to try and reduce players gravitating toward capital ships. The largish freight bay is another thing that appeals strongly to a player, but really isn't a huge deal in a real warfighter. Sure, missile capacity is always a thing, but if you pack smart you can pack a punch in any ship.

Perhaps our definitions of OP are different. If you mean it in the terms of "appeals very strongly to a player character" then sure, the Hyperion has that appeal and a sexy package too. It appeals strongly to a player character because of the unique set of requirements a player character has - it's a strong jack of all trades. The Millenium Falcon of X. I don't see it as a master of anything, though.

Anyway, nuff said. I think we both love the ship.

[RAVEN.myst]

The Acinonyx Prototype...

Ugh, I digress to the Springy and forget the Acinonyx? Indeed, crazy strong. (Given the late-game nature of it, I guess it can be compared in a sense to the Hyper in Reunion.)

The Vidar ...

Yes, unmatched (except by P) agility, with very decent firepower - balanced by "mediocre" speed and modest cargobay, though.

And in pure warfighting capacity, any single M7M will turn a Hyperion (and every other ship in the sector) into a rapidly expanding ball of gas faster than you can say thermonuclear warhead.

Thermonuclearwarhead! There! The trick is not to enunciate clearly.

What makes the Hyperion so coveted are some of the things that appeal strongly to the player but aren't things that necessarily make it overpowered. For those of us who spent a lot of time in X², we like our largish player ships to have hangars. .... This is something Egosoft really put the brakes on in later revisions...

I particularly miss something related: the ability to dock TSs and TPs at a TL - that made perfect sense to me, and allowed a tiered hierarchy of transports.

The largish freight bay is another thing that appeals strongly to a player... Sure, missile capacity is always a thing, but if you pack smart you can pack a punch in any ship.

The thing about this one is that it allows a huge fuel capacity (convenience/laziness), but most importantly, it opens up the ship to be usable in a much wider variety of ways other than just fighting (for example, carrying out substantial trades, or completing freight missions that would otherwise require the use of a TS) - which is why I consider it an "overpowered" ship - because it can do too many different things well: it can be a freighter, it can be a mini-TM, it can be a strong fighter, it is fast AND tough AND hits hard (no trade-offs) - it does everything a little too well, in my opinion (it's like a Swiss Army Knife that includes not a knife blade but a sword, not a basic screwdriver but a powered one, not a corkscrew but a full-featured waiter's friend and corking toolkit, not a short makeshift saw but a chainsaw, and also a set of tyre iron and wheel-nut spanner, and a winch with steel cable, and a gun... )

Perhaps our definitions of OP are different.

Indeed In fact, my definition even differs from itself...

I think we both love the ship.

Well, in fact I don't, but I respect and appreciate its place in the game (when I play as Argon and intentionally needle the Paranids, having Hypers as enemies does spice things up some!), and I certainly wouldn't argue that it doesn't belong, or anything of the sort. After all, since we all play separately, what does it matter to me if someone else is having a much easier time of playing than I? Well, in fact it matters rather a lot: BOTH he/she and I are playing how we choose to, and enjoying it, and I wouldn't have it any other way. (I take the same view of exploits, even if at times I may come across somewhat derisive - I won't use them, but if they enhance someone else's experience, then great - they're not harming anyone else's, after all.)

[jlehtone]

There are clearly two questions:

1. How to get a Hyperion?
2. Do you want to get a Hyperion?

The discussion above has hinted that the (b) might be 'no', which makes asking the (a) moot.

Talking about "late", my Reunion game had progressed quite far before a patch did add the Hype. I naturally did get the Hype and died in Xenon sector on test run, due to boredom, just like with Osprey in X2. However, despite being a late acquisition, the other part of that package deal, the PHQ, did mass produce a whole Hype fleet for sector patrol duties. Not suitable for my personal use.

The X3TC/AP are slightly different. On regular ongoing games the Hype requires boarding. While the use of Hype (personal or other duties) is a matter of opinion, getting one is interesting for the same reasons: it is fast and well armed and as such a challenging target to board.


All shields go down with sufficient ordnance. The Hypes have good turret coverage and large load of missiles. It is not unlikely that a Hype that has shields down, will launch a Firestorm at you, which your defences shoot down, killing the Hype (and you) with the blast. Furthermore, the Paranid Hypes might have Hull Polarization, Sentry Lasers, and Firewall, which all lower the odds of successful boarding.

Therefore, the first thing is to scan your target. You must know your enemy.


If you do see that the Hype is too well equipped, there is still an option to damage its equipment. IonD's fry equipment without damaging the hull, if the shields are down. Argon M7 Griffon is sufficiently powerful IonD' platform that can take pounding from the Hype as well.

That trivial/cheesy solution has some "issues". For one, a Marine that is hit by IonD will taste like chicken and you will need to write a letter to the next of kin. Second, getting an M7 to catch M6 is not exactly fulfilling the cunning plan of "get Hype and then become filthy rich".

[RainerPrem]

Hi,

@RAVEN.myst: While you find using a Hype or Springy boring I never thought that way. My player ship is one where I spent most of the time in, taking missions or directing my other ships.

Since I only fight, if and when necessary, the ability to take out small enemies (e.g. Khaakh clusters) quickly without calling other ships to help is a reason mor em to use the two "overpowered" ships.

The Hyperion is a good ship for beginners; they can enjoy the game without needing to use a big slow ship or worry to be casually killed when leaving a gate where a Q is lurking.

cu
Rainer

[RAVEN.myst]

My player ship is one where I spent most of the time in, taking missions or directing my other ships.

Ditto. My play style is more delegated, though, I guess - I enjoy the tactics (and the strategy preceding it) of having my cannon-fodd-... ermm... minio-... ummm... loyal subjects (that's as good as it gets, I'm afraid! ) to do the lifting for me, with my focus being on keeping them alive (hey, I'm a caring dictator...!), so I usually end up living in an M7C or a plain M7 - there's more elbow room, as well as space for a suitably intimid-... impressive ready-room, and I can have a larger staff of servants and Orion dancers on hand. So even though I do enjoy changing ships to wear the one that's most suited to a particular occasion (an aspect that the Hyper almost completely negates/obviates, IMO), that's mostly in the early game - later on I do get me something that can fit a lavish admiral's chair and four-poster bed.

Since I only fight, if and when necessary, the ability to take out small enemies (e.g. Khaakh clusters) quickly without calling other ships to help is a reason mor em to use the two "overpowered" ships.

Incidentally, in case you hadn't already thought of this, seeing as I've been re-playing X3TC lately (using a Poisoned Paranid game-start, no less - now there's comedy for you! Or hypocrisy... But I'm living in a Deimos for quite some time now - since as soon as I could get out of that Hyper, hehehe), I've had plenty occasion to deal with them Clusters, and I remembered my favourite way to do so when in a hurry (for example, when doing the Operation Final Fury escort missions through the artist later to be known as Enduring Light) - Hornets or Spectres. One-shot kill of the whole cluster, and as long as you stay out of their aggro range, they don't split up. Of course, I assume this results in a smaller gain in combat rank, but that's never a priority with me - and just as well, since I do play a 'fleet commander' rather than a 'pilot/captain' style, so most of my kills get no blood on my hands, nor any combat rank recognition (though you'd think the title WARLORD would imply directing underl-... subordinates...)

The Hyperion is a good ship for beginners; they can enjoy the game without needing to use a big slow ship or worry to be casually killed when leaving a gate where a Q is lurking.

Yes, I totally agree. Granted, unless "cheating it in", a rank newbie can't get one, but that's just as well - "too much ship" for such a young 'un, or too early spoiling - but it's certainly a good fit for an "advanced beginner" (and we all know that in these games, "beginner" is a state that lasts a blissfully long time )

[Reven]

All shields go down with sufficient ordnance. The Hypes have good turret coverage and large load of missiles. It is not unlikely that a Hype that has shields down, will launch a Firestorm at you, which your defences shoot down, killing the Hype (and you) with the blast. Furthermore, the Paranid Hypes might have Hull Polarization, Sentry Lasers, and Firewall, which all lower the odds of successful boarding.

All very true. I find the missile issue is the same with a Q, they want to fire nukes at you, usually when their shields are gone. I half wonder if they are trying to scuttle she ship before I can get it.

You can sometimes find them in game with few enough engine tunings that a Cobra can outrun them. I find a stern chase (them chasing you) is the best way to board - almost no ship will try and shoot down boarding pods that approach it from ahead unless you have other missiles too close, which they will try and shoot down and hit the boarding pods as collateral damage. In this scenario it's always good to turn off mosquito defense (but have it on a hotkey) and board with pods from 8k or so ahead while the ship chases you. If/when they fire a missile, let it get to within 3 or 4 k before you shoot it down. The Hyperion's hull is quite strong in X3AP, in X3TC it's more vital to keep the shields low but not to deplete them entirely, or else you can erase the hull in a big hurry.

And yes, while using an M7M to catch a Hyperion isn't really fulfilling that plan, I find filthy riches easy enough to get through other means than flying a Hyperion that the riches aren't the motivation for getting the ship. It's having a ship again where I feel like I'm driving around my beautiful X² Dragon again. A real corvette with a hangar and that is fun to drive.

Which is, I guess, why the Hyperion is my ship. I mean, any one of us could mow down a whole sector cluster with an M7M. Or frighten star systems into submission at just the sheer presence of an "I" (which makes pirates wet themselves and could give lessons on intimidation to a Star Destroyer). But the Hyperion, that ship take me back. It's my gateway back into the way X² felt like to play.

[RAVEN.myst]

I find the missile issue is the same with a Q, they want to fire nukes at you, usually when their shields are gone. I half wonder if they are trying to scuttle she ship before I can get it.

Those cagey cybastards! (Happens a lot too in X3TC's penultimate Balance of Power mission, where one has to bail-force a couple of ATF fighters, and the Fenrir [or is it a Thor? I forget] insists on firing Spectres. The solution, both in this specific case and in the general one, is to scan the ship to find out what missiles it's carrying, and then draw out the fight to bait the target to use up its explosive ordnance before moving in for the objective; I find this handy also when fighting Yokohamas or other ships using MAMLs - I buzz them and dance around them, getting them to exhaust their ammo, before I close in for the kill or boarding.)

[jlehtone]

It's having a ship again where I feel like I'm driving around my beautiful X² Dragon again. A real corvette with a hangar and that is fun to drive.

the Hyperion, that ship take me back. It's my gateway back into the way X² felt like to play.

That is a very good point.

The X3 Dragon is a brick with entirely different usage. Rather than getting back, I chose to adopt to the X3 Dragon and Goner Transporter Device. A painful transformation, but when stubborn ...