(X3AP, Terran Commander) Am I missing something here?

[hisazul]

Hardcore terran here and I gotta side with the early comments. Terran space isn't really great for making money early on. Later sure it's not really any different... probability of your saves jump beacons being placed completely horribly is small and fixable later.

Taxi missions aren't all the same, some are deliver 1 guy to a station... don't require anything besides life support and they can pay fairly well IF and only IF your rank is appropriate. On the other hand missions that require TP ship and transporting tourists around... are really not worth the effort if you are looking for money. It's a fun thing to do once in a while... but as source of income... ehhhhhh... not really. It does turn millions if your trade rank is in the clouds unless recent patch changed it, I know the patch killed patrol/defense missions pretty much they went from awesome to... you can't be serious about this(100+mil to.... face nothing by capital ships and get payed less then the random garbage you picked up after the fight sometimes a whole lot less).

In short valkyrie isn't a bad investment for scouting and scanning purposes and even buying and deliver equipment since it has close to the highest cargo capacity from m5s and its medium so you can buy and deliver even jumpdrive(very useful). Not sure why you would sell a katana for it tho... which is an m6, a solid medium class ship, for a fast paper thin scout. Unless you were just selling that katana in the first place.

As side note, while it comes with better shields and weapons and cargo... it is still inferior to pirate kestrel for all the previously listed purposes. You shouldn't fight in an m5 in AP period so the only thing that matters is speed and kestrel has more speed then anything else(arrow and starburst aside).

[Sinxar]

I'm still curious where you got the information that told you to sell the Katana and do passenger missions.

I ask because I honestly never seen anyone say to do that ever.

[comraderichard]

Honestly? It came up in a google search when I looked for advice on how to do a Terran playthrough. Though frankly at this point the enjoyment I was having has turned sour as a result of getting involved with factories, CLS, CAG, ST/UTs, etc. CLS doesn't recognize jump beacons which is kind of a big deal in Terran space, I ended up in a position where I'm stuck in the Valkyrie I was scouting in because I thought investing in Baldrics would lead to making money hand-over-fist from using CLS with my factories.

This turned out to not be the case. With CLS they'd usually make about 100,000 per trade on their own though frankly the turn around was incredibly slow. The aforementioned lack of jump beacon usage puts a kebosh on CAG/CLS as a whole for me because I didn't sink millions into tricking these things out just to get them blown up.

And considering I'm in a bit of a financial pitfall at the moment I'm feeling like just tossing this playthrough and starting over. Or, well, starting over eventually. I seem to like the idea of X3 more than the execution but good luck finding a similar experience anywhere outside of it.

I've zero idea what to do; Sector Traders don't take care of my factories but having a pair buy for best and sell for best on a station is too costly this early on. On top of that non-STs end up going into war zones because they don't use the MK3 blacklist.

Also the jump minimum on things is ill explained - is it one jump from the home sector or does the home sector itself count as 1 jump?

Maybe I should use the stock market but honestly I've avoided it because I just plain hate stocks. You don't play games like this to simulate being a stock merchant, you do it for the sake of power projection via your fleets and facilities. At least that seems to be the general consensus.

I just don't know. If I knew a reliable way to start making millions outside of unreliable mission reward yields that didn't involve exploiting the stock market, like, you know actually earning it through effort but having a clear plan of what to do instead of waffling about? I'm not saying it should hold my hand but actually finding reliable guides to fun ways to make credits would be nice.

So should I just start over seeing as I've mucked up a fair bit? Or maybe I can salvage this by selling the Baldrics and just waiting until I can afford to field more of then later and just ignore my factories for now in favor of getting a heavy fighter and doing combat missions.

[Bill Huntington]

Try the Humble Merchant start for a better trading experience. I like to use it as a combat start even with the little Disco you start with. You build up from nothing either way and you can do it quickly. That assumes you know how. If you don't, you can learn quickly too.

You started with a hard one, comraderichard.

Good luck.

[Imgran]

Very good, comraderichard, doing TC your own way!

If you could sell full loads, you'd be ahead. But my usual experience is that traders wait a lot and many times don't have full loads. A slower freighter would lose many contests with an NP trader too. That could happen even selling your own production, if an NP trader delivered a load just before you arrived. My guess would be that the smaller faster TS would make you more $.

You're right about Sats. It's a smart move to put them everywhere you can. It'll pay off too.

Good Luck.

It really depends on what you're producing. Heavy freighters though aren't actually more efficient unless you're selling something you're producing en masse to the point that they can always fill their holds AND there's enough customers around that you can always empty those holds on the other end. About the only time I'd use heavy freighters to SELL a product is if I was running a non-plexed XL SPP.

I almost always prefer more freighters to heavier freighters even in Commonwealth space where the difference in speed is mitigated with Jumpdrives. In Terran space, more and faster is nearly always better than bigger and slower.

As a suggestion for a third option -- most passenger transports are actually perfectly up to the task of selling the product of a small materials complex A Terran Mani with 1350 L cargo and nearly 200 m/s speed is far more expensive than a Baldric but it's much better suited to trading in Terran space due to its speed. A Mani can make 2 trips nearly for every 1 the Baldric makes, so unless the Baldric is filling its hold on every trip, the Mani may be a better idea.

[X2-Illuminatus]

I'm still curious where you got the information that told you to sell the Katana and do passenger missions.

I ask because I honestly never seen anyone say to do that ever.

Probably from either of these two threads (#1 and #2) opened shortly after the release of X3AP.

[Sinxar]

Though frankly at this point the enjoyment I was having has turned sour as a result of getting involved with [...]

That isn't good at all. I found the Terran start to be one of the harder ones as a veteran player, but that is because I knew almost nothing about what stations are where and where to make a quick buck.

If you feel like giving up, give a commonwealth start a try. I prefer the Humble Merchant, but again it is only because I know what to do right off the bat to get setup.

I understand where you are coming from as I went through that struggle when I learned how to play myself.

That is sort of the thing about the X3 series, the start is always very slow, it can take days of playing before you even have enough income to get your traders started.

I hope you don't just quit and keep pushing through the tough learning phase. Very rewarding to build up from nothing to a galactic superpower.

Most mistakes can be recovered from in some way, there is almost always hope in X3. That being said, I don't have any useful advice to give you.

I usually trade until the point I can afford a TL (usually a Split Elephant) and use that to do station build missions in the commonwealth. This requires you to have explored a fair amount though and ideally you would have navsats at every shipyard so you can always see what they have in stock and be able to trade with it remotely if needed. It is then when things start taking off for me because at this point you can afford to buy a nice corvette and the combat missions are starting to pay a decent amount coupled with mk3 local traders (usually covering the Argon prime area) the credits start to build up quickly allowing the investment into larger complexes and some specialty ones for yourself, such as shield, gun and missile factories for your personal use. Typically in AP i'll do some stock trading for quick cash in Seizewell but I don't recommend it unless you understand how it works first. It is basically a money cheat (IMO) and after I get a few mil out of it, I generally don't touch it again.

While I am sure you know that stuff by googling it is difficult to explain how to actually go about doing it because there are a lot of intermediate steps involved. For example when im trading to buy a TL, well in that time I buy quite a few TS ships and run them manually for a while then slowly outfit them with MK3 software and send them to Empire's Edge to train up. It is these guys I turn into local traders that will eventually cover the Argon Prime area, each with a 3 jump range to keep them out of pirate space. Heck sometimes I'll build a silicon mine and get a best buy TS to bring ecells while I personally sell the silicon for the best possible price across the galaxy for all the monies. Other times I ignore trading completely and just capture ships with my starter fighter for my starting capital.

Sorry for the rambling, but I hate to see new players get frustrated. It is difficult to get the hang of it and you got lots of people telling you to do things that you may not fully understand. I found it best to take a step back, read the manual (AP manual : here - im not patronizing you, i read them regularly myself) again, sip some coffee and think about what you are doing. Just stepping back for a day or so can give you some profound insights into things you may not have noticed before (never thought I would say "profound insights" in regards to X3...).

For your question, 0 is the home sector 1 is the next sector over.

[comraderichard]

I'm seriously committed to actually doing a Terran character though even if I have to restart multiple times. However I do appreciate the recommendations to try a Commonwealth character; I'd just like to not take a month to start being able to even obtain and equip ships en-masse, run boarding raids, etc.

With that said, if I do stick with the Terrans like I want to, do you think it advisable to maybe get a conversion mod to make them less derpy? I read that XRM makes the Terran sectors functional, adds Terran marines, and a police license. Though I can't find out if it works like a normal police license or not. I'm open to other suggestions but avoiding stacking up tons of small mods is preferable.

[Sinxar]

I can in no way recommend XRM for a new player. It makes the game very difficult overall. Not poo pooing the mod (in fact it is one of my favorites), it changes the game so much that it is practically a different game, similarly for Litcube's Universe. Huge game changer that can kill you out of nowhere.

[Bill Huntington]

There's two Terran starts in TC and they're both fun. The war zones in AP really change things. The plots in TC are fun too. AP, not so much.

If you want money, you can try Nividium mining for $, both fairly fast and huge.

In both TC and AP, I build up to high rep in all the major races in the 24 hours of Day 1. With money and rep you can build all the fleets you want. In TC I have $100 Mil from Niv mining by the end of the same Day 1. If you're new to it it'll take longer.

A note: you're not an Argon or CW player. You're working in their space. I'll cap Argon and CW ships and sell them as part of my build-up. $1 Mil for big Paranid TS, $1 Mil for most M3 fighters, $3 mil for M3+ fighters. I'm taking them by hour 8 of day 1 in most of my games. There's a part of the Terran plot in TC where you can cap Xenon Ls as long as you want and sell them for $ 500 k. I usually stop at $20 Mil and go to the next phase of my game.

[Imgran]

A note: you're not an Argon or CW player. You're working in their space. I'll cap Argon and CW ships and sell them as part of my build-up. $1 Mil for big Paranid TS, $1 Mil for most M3 fighters, $3 mil for M3+ fighters. I'm taking them by hour 8 of day 1 in most of my games. There's a part of the Terran plot in TC where you can cap Xenon Ls as long as you want and sell them for $ 500 k. I usually stop at $20 Mil and go to the next phase of my game.

I'm not nearly that aggressive, but I very much agree with the sentiment. I tend to stick to Argon space. Emphasis on "tend to." If I need to butter up the Yaki or the Paranids or the Split I invest time and energy in their space, no problem. You go where the money is. But my home sector is Legend's Home, that's where my adventures usually end and that's where I prefer to dock my reserve ships (3 different stations that can dock capitals is a large part of that decision of course)

I do understand that Terrans offer some unique challenges so good luck in meeting those challenges

[comraderichard]

There's two Terran starts in TC and they're both fun. The war zones in AP really change things. The plots in TC are fun too. AP, not so much.

If you want money, you can try Nividium mining for $, both fairly fast and huge.

In both TC and AP, I build up to high rep in all the major races in the 24 hours of Day 1. With money and rep you can build all the fleets you want. In TC I have $100 Mil from Niv mining by the end of the same Day 1. If you're new to it it'll take longer.

A note: you're not an Argon or CW player. You're working in their space. I'll cap Argon and CW ships and sell them as part of my build-up. $1 Mil for big Paranid TS, $1 Mil for most M3 fighters, $3 mil for M3+ fighters. I'm taking them by hour 8 of day 1 in most of my games. There's a part of the Terran plot in TC where you can cap Xenon Ls as long as you want and sell them for $ 500 k. I usually stop at $20 Mil and go to the next phase of my game.

Aren't the Terrans in TC even more borked than in AP to the point they suffer GoD's wrath rather often? You can't even get ATF reputation in that, only lose it. I also saw a lot of people joking about how the plots are a lot more asinine/convoluted in TC, particularly related to something called The Hub.

I don't know, I just really want the militant human group to be up to parity with everyone else. Only the Boron don't have marines too and every other race has a police license. Is it just too much to ask to not have to require player intervention in the Terran economy and to be able to earn money the 'fun' way for me via fighting and capturing ships?

To that end modding seems like the only option but apparently XRM's miles different than vanilla yet I can't find an AP mod that 'fixes' the game and makes the Terrans feel like a fully implemented race rather than an afterthought. I guess I'll have to look to smaller mods but I really don't trust myself not to completely screw those up. The Bonus Pack wasn't nearly as helpful as people made it out to be considering CAG/CLS doesn't use jump beacons.

I apologize for suddenly being so negative but even though I like the Terrans at times it feels like Egosoft just has a start for them just because rather than actually genuinely seeing them as a viable start. One race shouldn't be 10 times harder and more tedious to work with than any other.

[Snafu_X3]

IIRC a later update to the BP CAG/CLS script allows CLS (at least, with an appropriate pilot) to use JBs, but I may be thinking of Trade 3 (ie ST/LT/UT)..

XRM is excellent but as others have said it's a complete redesign, so not recommended until you have vanilla down pat, or are at least feeling confident

Jump calculations are <jump to IS gate>, then <jump to destination gate>. See the wiki (sigged link) for fuel calcs

Altho my contributions are mostly TC-biased, they are frequently applicable to AP situations (again, see sig & wiki)

[comraderichard]

So I saw something rather strange, Paranid fighting Terrans in Heretic's End, I was under the impression all races but Argon were neutral to the Terrans?

[ajime]

So I saw something rather strange, Paranid fighting Terrans in Heretic's End, I was under the impression all races but Argon were neutral to the Terrans?

I've seen split ships duking out against terran tyr there too(I had the hub connected to zyarth dominion and channeled them there)

[Nanook]

So I saw something rather strange, Paranid fighting Terrans in Heretic's End, I was under the impression all races but Argon were neutral to the Terrans?

It's not 'Argon vs Terran', it's 'Commonwealth vs Terran'. There's a point in the plot where even the pacifist Boron are convinced to join the war. So expect to see all the CW races in the battle (except the Teladi, who are generally neutral to everyone - they're the Ferengi of the X Universe).

As for the contention that the TC plots are "asinine", that's just a few disgruntled people who don't care to put a lot of effort into the game, IMO. The Hub plot, in particular, seems to draw their ire since it's long and involving. But most of it can be done while doing other things. IMO, the plots in TC are far superior to those in AP. FWIW.

[jlehtone]

So expect to see all the CW races in the battle (except the Teladi, who are generally neutral to everyone - they're the Ferengi of the X Universe).

Indeed. Split and Borons hold the Belt frequently. I've seen an Odysseus to push into Jupiter with Argon friends (in my wake). While there we had a furball with the natives, but from the corner of my scanner I saw Teladi Phoenix in all its majesty, peacefully loitering in the middle of Jupiter sector, undisturbed ...

[RainerPrem]

...

As for the contention that the TC plots are "asinine", that's just a few disgruntled people who don't care to put a lot of effort into the game, IMO. The Hub plot, in particular, seems to draw their ire since it's long and involving. But most of it can be done while doing other things. IMO, the plots in TC are far superior to those in AP. FWIW.

Hi,

I concur nearly 100%. I only think the headquarter plot comes too late in the game. Considering how useful the headquarter is in AP, and that I basically lose interest when all plots are finished, this is my only point of criticism.

cu
Rainer

[Nanook]

...

As for the contention that the TC plots are "asinine", that's just a few disgruntled people who don't care to put a lot of effort into the game, IMO. The Hub plot, in particular, seems to draw their ire since it's long and involving. But most of it can be done while doing other things. IMO, the plots in TC are far superior to those in AP. FWIW.

Hi,

I concur nearly 100%. I only think the headquarter plot comes too late in the game. Considering how useful the headquarter is in AP, and that I basically lose interest when all plots are finished, this is my only point of criticism.

cu
Rainer

I agree. I usually use a mod that separates the Hub and HQ plots.

[thrangar]

...

As for the contention that the TC plots are "asinine", that's just a few disgruntled people who don't care to put a lot of effort into the game, IMO. The Hub plot, in particular, seems to draw their ire since it's long and involving. But most of it can be done while doing other things. IMO, the plots in TC are far superior to those in AP. FWIW.

Hi,

I concur nearly 100%. I only think the headquarter plot comes too late in the game. Considering how useful the headquarter is in AP, and that I basically lose interest when all plots are finished, this is my only point of criticism.

cu
Rainer

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