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RAVEN.myst
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Post by RAVEN.myst » Thu, 8. Jun 17, 16:42

ubuntufreakdragon wrote: You should still think about buying a TM a fighter pairs very well with a TM as you can use the docking computer to dock at the TM with low shields to refill them instantly (docked ships that no longer are the player ship get full shield on docking) so a TM with strong shields can be your fortress to hide in with you M3 and it can distract enemies with it's turrets while it shield allow it to ignore their fire.
And of cause a TM can jump much farer than a M3, and stock much more ammunition and missiles.
I would recommend the otas Zephyrus you can get in Home of Legend (once again) it might not be the best trader but it is a combat pig and totally fits this role.
I also discovered, relatively recently, that even without a docking computer, "combat docking" at a TM is possible, by using the command console's "Request landing permission" command - docking guide lights appear, and the ship need only get close to the TM at a low enough speed to insta-dock - it's obviously not as good as a docking computer, but still doable when one hasn't gotten that particular convenience yet.

Also, I'd like to add my voice to ubuntu's in HIGHLY recommending a TM as a mobile base of operations, for all the reasons he mentions - and the OTAS Zephyrus is also among my favourite TMs, very combat-capable indeed, and one of the faster ones, too, so it's good for long-term exploration. :) While in combat, give it the "protect me" command (your fingers will learn that key sequence VERY quickly, heheh), and it will stay near you and cover you with its turrets, thus enhancing your presence. Later on, you can have a couple more fighters based there, if you like, and either have them as wingmen, or even direct them to fight for you while you cruise around in a battle in the TM itself (this I do VERY often - let THEM get their hands dirty, I say! hehehe)

Happy hunting!
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Honved
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Post by Honved » Thu, 8. Jun 17, 17:38

As pointed out by 2 others, a TM makes a good mobile base of operations until you can afford a TL (which remains the hub of my escort fleet for the rest of the game). You can dock both your M3 and M5 in a TM, and still have room for 2 bailed ships waiting to be repaired and/or sold, and it will carry resupplies of missiles and other expendables, as well as doing trading along the way. Better yet, ships docked in a TM are not scanned for contraband, so you can carry Space Fuel and Space Weed in a fighter docked aboard the TM, and fly past those Sector Police with impunity.

Normally, I fly a M3 or M5, with the TM or TL following about half a sector behind, and any capital ships that I own and don't have on stationary duty following the TM or TL. Further behind than half a sector and I can't protect it or access it quickly; closer and it's likely to get involved in combats where I don't want it (like against an M6 or bigger). The basic Argon Magnetar isn't a bad choice, and I've used them in most of my Argon games, although the OTAS entry is (as with practically all of their stuff) technically "better".

The Discoverer is perfect for sending out to remotely collect salvage after a fight (this works MUCH better after you exit the sector, otherwise "collision" is enabled, and your Disco may fly in circles around the object to collect until it times out and disappears), or to do Asteroid scans and taxi runs, so I normally don't sell off my original M5. In fact, I normally accumulate 2-10 more M5s, and position them at various points around the explored universe so I can send them to quickly pick up occasional odd items that I need in a hurry, or replace destroyed Navigational Satellites, and so on.

I consider the Advanced Perseus to be the ideal personal ship for most of my Paranid games, and I normally fly that for most of the game even long after I've got an M7 or M1/M2. The Hyperion Vanguard may be the shinier toy for my Paranid pilot, but the Advanced Perseus sees far more frequent use.

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Post by Monkspeed » Thu, 8. Jun 17, 18:25

Yes, I'm loving my Advanced Perseus! I sneaked into pirate controlled space Veil Of Delusion & Gaian Star to claim a Blastclaw Prototype & Pirate Elite respectively, it was a nightmare trying to go undiscovered which I managed eventually after a few reloads, but I did get into a few scraps with 8+ pirates all at once and the Perseus was amazing, just took the punishment while I picked off quite a few pirates, they got me in the end though but I'm really impressed with my new ship.

I sold the two I claimed, plus my auto trader is working hard so now I'm on about 11 mil :D

I like the idea of a TM (OTAS Zephyrus) in a few key spots, but I'm still slowly learning the ropes. Right now I've got my sights set on a few more auto traders, but It's difficult to buy Trader mk3 and then get them where I need them, logistical nightmare! All part of the fun! I guess I will need to get some jump drives now and stop being stingy? :D

Also, I saw an M5 class ship with ~500 m/s speed, wow! I don't remember its name but I'm gonna get one!

I'm trying to find a PAC, I keep my eye open whenever I dock somewhere but haven't found it yet... I'm using 4 chainguns and 2 somethings (like a IRE but a bit more powerful?) and dragonfly missiles. Need some wasps!

:D

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ubuntufreakdragon
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Post by ubuntufreakdragon » Thu, 8. Jun 17, 19:53

build a PAC factory :roll:

a TM remains usefull even in lategame to deliver jumpengines as both TM and a docked ship can have one.

Military you should consider a M6 if getting about 16mil, it's far stronger than M3+TM and your first bigger combat ship, the Centaur is quite good for newbies (you can buy it and it has no real weakness) don't try to board you first M6 as newbie.

nah 600m/s is also easy to get.
The fastes 4 ships: Arrow (M5) 1,320.0m/s; Starburst 1,140.0m/s; Pirate Kestrel (M5) 635.3m/s; Teladi Kestrel (M5) 605.5m/s
Only Teladi Kestrel is buyable. Only Kestrels are available in TC.
Oh and there is a tiny exeption for only M5 being fast: Springblossom (M6) 600MJ Shield 360.0m/s 2,000 Cargo armed with 14Flaks!!! Price 5mil without equipment, but can only get one after finishing the first Terran Plot.
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Post by Honved » Fri, 9. Jun 17, 16:28

My favorite loadout for the Perseus is 6xPAC and a pair of PBGs ("Six-pack and a lighter"), or PBEs if I can't get the PBGs. The PAC is a general-purpose weapon with no drastic strengths or weaknesses, but is decent in practically every respect: medium speed and projectile size, medium damage and rate of fire, no significant difference between shield and hull damage ratings, moderately energy efficient, and fairly affordable. PBEs deliver near-instantaneous hits, ideal for taking out fast targets, but are very energy-hungry. PBGs are area effect weapons, deadly against almost anything at really short ranges.

Oddly enough, one good place to pick up PACs is back in the Argon Prime vicinity, since there's a weapons factory in Home of Light(?) just south of Herron's Nebula where the Humble Merchant start puts you. Remember when you couldn't buy IREs? There were PACs available that your Discoverer couldn't use. Now you've got a ship that uses PACs, and you're probably finding lots of IREs but no PACs. Ironic, or by design, I don't know.

Granted, there are in all probability several other good places to buy PACs a lot closer to where you are now, you just need to find them. PBGs are only sold by Pirates, or available as salvage from Pirates, Paranids, and some Argon ships.

As ubuntufreakdragon points out, building a PAC factory might actually be a good choice if there's a real shortage in the area where you're currently at, provided you can get the raw materials (ore), food, and energy in the immediate vicinity. Where there's an itch, you're there to scratch it.

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Post by Snafu_X3 » Fri, 9. Jun 17, 18:48

Split M5 (I forget the name.. Scorpion?) is buyable in TC & has >500m/s speed. I usually go for the Raider variant, as that comes with a free Triplex, but you'll have to hunt down in SW for the shipyard that sells them. Also, it has pretty poor cargo capacity

As mentioned above, Teladi Kestrels are buyable in TC & have ~600m/s speed, a rear turret & reasonable M cargo; I usually fit 1 or 2 with CLS + Triplex for quick passenger-hauling duties. Downsides are poor turning relative to (insane) speed, & poor energy capacity, so you have to be very careful with weps loadout and/or use to avoid dropping your weps nrg to 0 near-instantaneously
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BugMeister
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Post by BugMeister » Fri, 9. Jun 17, 23:58

Monkspeed wrote:Yes, I'm loving my Advanced Perseus! I sneaked into pirate controlled space Veil Of Delusion & Gaian Star to claim a Blastclaw Prototype & Pirate Elite respectively, it was a nightmare trying to go undiscovered which I managed eventually after a few reloads, but I did get into a few scraps with 8+ pirates all at once and the Perseus was amazing, just took the punishment while I picked off quite a few pirates, they got me in the end though but I'm really impressed with my new ship.

I sold the two I claimed, plus my auto trader is working hard so now I'm on about 11 mil :D

I like the idea of a TM (OTAS Zephyrus) in a few key spots, but I'm still slowly learning the ropes. Right now I've got my sights set on a few more auto traders, but It's difficult to buy Trader mk3 and then get them where I need them, logistical nightmare! All part of the fun! I guess I will need to get some jump drives now and stop being stingy? :D

Also, I saw an M5 class ship with ~500 m/s speed, wow! I don't remember its name but I'm gonna get one!

I'm trying to find a PAC, I keep my eye open whenever I dock somewhere but haven't found it yet... I'm using 4 chainguns and 2 somethings (like a IRE but a bit more powerful?) and dragonfly missiles. Need some wasps!

:D
the Blastclaw is a beautiful ship..
good-sized cargo-bay as well..

- mine's fitted with Energy-Bolt Chainguns, there's ample cargo-space for ammo and energy cells.. :)
- the whole universe is running in BETA mode - we're working on it.. beep..!! :D :thumb_up:

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Post by Cpt.Jericho » Sat, 10. Jun 17, 00:17

I think the Blastclaw is a very ugly ship. But it sure knows how serve some firepower. Best thing about Pirate ships IMO is that they can use pretty much anything that can shoot.
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RAVEN.myst
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Post by RAVEN.myst » Sat, 10. Jun 17, 07:33

BugMeister wrote:
Monkspeed wrote:I sneaked into pirate controlled space Veil Of Delusion & Gaian Star to claim a Blastclaw Prototype & Pirate Elite respectively...
I sold the two I claimed, ...
the Blastclaw is a beautiful ship..
good-sized cargo-bay as well..
Yes, I also thought that the sale of that Blastclaw Prototype may be somewhat lamentable - but for once I wasn't going to be the first to do the pointing out :D Great thing about X3TC/AP (all the X games, for that matter) is that there's always "next time" - be it in this playthrough, or a future one... :)
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Monkspeed
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Post by Monkspeed » Sat, 10. Jun 17, 11:51

Wow, lots of Blastclaw love but I thought it was "slower than an asthmatic ant with some heavy shopping" (TM Blackadder) :D

Without those two ships' sales, I couldn't have expanded my trade empire which now includes 3 traders (1 Mercury and 2 Mercury Haulers).

I've tracked down some PACs and they are en route to me in my Discoverer.

I need some 25mj shields so that and what Ubuntu said, got me thinking... Why not build some PAC and Medium shield factories. So next question, how do I build a factory?

I also love the idea of some TM's and it's on the agenda, so that will be my next question, how and which TM?


Monkspeed Chronicles Continued...

I did lots of Terran questing, shot quite a few Xenon N's. They have given me a Raptor of my own and some wingmen to patrol their sectors. One of the quests involved scanning a pirate base and when I got near 5 pirates popped out and much fighting, swearing and reloading ensued. :D I managed it in the end with about 15% hull left on my Perseus!

Afterwards, I decided to take a break from that quest to go rendezvous with my discover and pick up my PACs.

Bought 2 Mercury Haulers but there were no L versions left so had to kit them out manually but struggling to find 25mj shields in the Argon Prime vicinities. Now have roughly 8 million in the kitty.

Now off to meet my Discoverer, have a good day, Captains.
:)

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Post by RAVEN.myst » Sat, 10. Jun 17, 12:39

Monkspeed wrote:Wow, lots of Blastclaw love but I thought it was "slower than an asthmatic ant with some heavy shopping" (TM Blackadder) :D
True enough. Those M3+ ships are sometimes considered "mini-corvettes", as they have fairly strong firepower (a fair portion of it in their turrets), usually pretty tough shielding, and capacious cargobay - at the expense of speed (and, to a lesser extent, nimbleness.) They are also typically hideously expensive - and therefore have a high resale value, too.
Monkspeed wrote:Without those two ships' sales, I couldn't have expanded my trade empire which now includes 3 traders (1 Mercury and 2 Mercury Haulers).
I would call this a VERY wise investment - they comprise the backbone of most experienced players' economic empires, especially once assembled into an automated infrastructure. In my opinion, very good choice.
Monkspeed wrote:I need some 25mj shields so that and what Ubuntu said, got me thinking... Why not build some PAC and Medium shield factories. So next question, how do I build a factory?
You buy factories in packed form at shipyards - you then transport them to your building site by means of a TL ('large transport'), either one you own or, in the early game more likely, one you've hired specifically for the purpose (you pay per gate transited, so it's best to hire one in the sector where the shipyard you are buying from is, and to pick your shipyard as near to your planned site as practical.) 25MJ shield factories aren't cheap, by the way, so in the meantime, you may want to source those (somewhat elusive) shields elsewhere:
Spoiler
Show
Split equipment docks often stock them; if you want to stay true-blue Argon, you can get them from a couple of medium shield factories, one being located in Legend's Home, or from the Federal Installation in Black Hole Sun.)
Monkspeed wrote:I also love the idea of some TM's and it's on the agenda, so that will be my next question, how and which TM?
"Which" depends on what you want from it, but essentially in the early game you can't really go wrong with any of them (though I'd stay away from the Teladi one - it's very slow-moving, and guaranteed to rub you up the wrong way! hehehe) However, if you want to emphasize speed and combat capability, then I would highly recommend the OTAS Zephyrus, available from the OTAS shipyard in Legend's Home (yes, that sector name DOES pop up rather often, doesn't it?)

Happy hunting! :)
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ubuntufreakdragon
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Post by ubuntufreakdragon » Sat, 10. Jun 17, 14:02

buying a station first requires you to find a shipyard selling that station:
Shields and the Races offering a corresponding factory:
1m Argon; Teladi
5m Paranid; Teladi
25m Paranid; Split
200m Argon; Boron
1g Boron; Split
2g Argon; Paranid
Weapons: IRE PAC HEPT CIG PPC factories are offerd by all races and each race has their own weapons
Argon: PRG CFA
Boron: ID IPG IC
Paranid: FBL PSG
Split: PBE ISR
Teladi: EBC FAA GC
Terran: EMPC MAML SSC PSP(only after finishing their second plot (they like plots))
Argon+Split: MD
Supershipyards:(offering most staions)
Argon: CLOUDBASE SOUTHEAST; LEGEND'S HOME
Paranid: THIRD REDEMPTION; HEAVEN'S ASSERTION
Boron: QUEENS RETRIBUT'N
Split: PATRIRCH'S COLLUSION; ZYARTH'S DOMINION
Teladi: CEO'S SPRITE
Than you have to find a TL ship, hail it, rent it and order it to dock at the shipyard offering the desired station.
Once it's docked buy the station like you would buy a ship than hail the TL and order it to move to your target sector, once there order it to build the station (you need to be in the same sector) remember to build stations only in systems where the get a good supply of resources or you have to build this supply, too. Energy is the easiest followed by Ore or Silicon; and the race dependant food, which means you have to stick close to the manufacturers territory.
And a race offering the factory normally is also the race demanding most of the produced ware.

Terran plot: dock these 3 free "drone ships" at the same station as you are and take their weapons (EMPC) they sell for more than 300000 each or keep them you can make good use of them later in the plot and fell free to sell the now empty ships. If you need assist by them in combat rather buy some terran kris they deliver the same punch and are rather cheap. One good point at owning a TM is you can carry much more "found" weapons in it than in a M3, as said before get a Zepyrus.
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Capping Ls

Post by Bill Huntington » Sat, 10. Jun 17, 19:37

Monkspeed, it's nice to see your progress with the game!

I've got a good one for you. If not now, then the next game.

I hope you have a Save before you finished scanning the pirate base. Actually a little sooner than the scan. There's four Xenon's Ls circling around. Note that their IDs are different, not beginning with X. You can cap them much easier than normal L's, perhaps 50% of the time with all the tricks. Actually it's 100% with all the tricks. You can sell them for $ .5 Mil and sometimes they have their 25 MJ shields and PBEs still on board. Save before each cap and you can get them all. It's a good way to hone your combat methods and practice them. Remember that the L doesn't have a rear turret.

And here's a good part. The mission repeats if you don't follow the pirate ship. And repeats. And repeats. You can repair the Ls while waiting for the next mission. You can send them to a nearby SY even without shields. Sometimes I collect enough Ls to reach the $20 Mil mark, which is enough to buy an Elephant, which is another level up in my game.

Good Luck!

A note: There's great stations to build to advance your game. Building a PAC station is not one of them. They're all over. Use the Encyclopedia to locate possibilities. When you have $100 Mil you can build a nice Spacefuel Complex in Avarice, make $ like crazy, improve your pirate rep slowly with their purchases, and have your own place to stay. Plus a guaranteed supply of E at hand.
Last edited by Bill Huntington on Sun, 11. Jun 17, 03:17, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Triaxx2 » Sat, 10. Jun 17, 23:02

Blastclaw has 650 L cargo capacity, and so it's basically a heavily armed TS for most situations, so you can use it as a powerful trader. Or you can hang two of them off of something like the Hyperion Vanguard and have bonus cargo capacity.

Alternately, is the Teladi Falcon Hauler, which is even slower than the Blastclaw, but carries XL cargo.

TM's: Depends on the use. The Yaki Chokaro, if you can capture it or are friends enough to buy it, sacrifices one fighter dock for 2500 cargo capacity and it's pretty quick. Useful as a personal transport for your fighters and loot from combat.

The Magnetar is slightly better defended, being able to mount mass drivers which do an excellent job at missile defense. Much less cargo capacity, but park a couple spare fighters in it and you're golden.

The Zephyrus has frontal guns and can, in a pinch, defend itself, but is not a combat ship. Does have the smallest cargo the TM's.

Finally, the Split Boa, which is the fastest of them, with the second smallest cargo. It's surprisingly good, but lightly shielded.
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Post by ubuntufreakdragon » Sun, 11. Jun 17, 00:52

There are 2 causes to build stations:
- make money
- you need the products
PAC might not be the most profitable one, but it's still a cheap weapon factory and delivers the most player needed gun of the game.
And you can't make greater mistakes with them while you can do terrible mistakes with Spacefuel and Spaceweed, that's why I never recommend illegal stations to a new player as first station, we don't seek max money per second we seek a robust start to station building and building something you need is never wasted money and weapon factories can always have their products sold manually, so a PAC factory is a good starting choice for a beginner, same goes for the 25mj factory. Atm. guaranteed profit is much more valuable than max profit.

Main Point of Zephyrus: 600mj shields if you use the TM for the dock to refill shields strategy the TM will be in close combat with the enemies rather often so shields are the most needed value, yes Chokaro is the better Trader and Boa is faster but for this strategy(the only one working well against Xenon spam below M6) we only need shields.
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