[TC] XENON WARS by deca.death

[Triaxx2]

Yeah, I suppose that doesn't explain why I went from an M3 to an M7 and from seeing Carracks to Brigantines.

[cdcryx]

deca.death, first of all I would like to congratulate you for awesome job. If I would expected some major battle fleet stories I knew they would come from you. This is after reading your post (one of the most useful post on the forum) Terraformer Military Industry - Complex Suggestions. I have used most of your complex ideas to build my first and only X3TC empire. Right now I am 1,000 Microchips short for HUB Plot, I have over 8 billion Cr assets, I have capped every M7, M7M, M2, M1 and M6+ in the game (I have used the project boading development program of David Howland, deca.death from Bill Huntington famous boarding Tyr post - Thank you guys), I have around 60 fully trained marines and currently getting close to lvl.6 Duke's reputation.
I would love to follow your path and be the Xenon Nemesis but I do not find enough motivation to do that.

I understand building mega-plexes to support the HUB Plot. I loved to build my missile factories so I can sustain my boarding operations. I had patience waiting so many game days until my marines were fully trained on Eng, Mec and Hack. I understood waiting to level up to a bigger/stronger ship just to be able completing the OFF. But in current game set-up I find no motivation getting engaged in massive battles with Xenon when I know that in 2 hours they are still there maybe even stronger.

By all means, I am not trying to say what you did it's wrong. The sole purpose of writing this is that I am hoping that you could probably guide me toward a way that I can keep playing this great game.

[Nanook]

Yeah, I suppose that doesn't explain why I went from an M3 to an M7 and from seeing Carracks to Brigantines.

No, but the RNG would. It was confirmed by one of the devs shortly after the patch that changed it was released. Player ship and assets no longer affect what opposition appears in a mission. Only the mission difficulty and the player's combat rank matter. Believe it or don't, it doesn't change the facts.

[Naroku]

I be;lieve I am one from X-treme combat rank...that being said then is there going to be a major jump to the final rank? ATM i get on very hard defend station or patrol's 2-4 ish m2's or m1's or a combo. If it going to double I want a death star....

[deca.death]

But in current game set-up I find no motivation getting engaged in massive battles with Xenon when I know that in 2 hours they are still there maybe even stronger.

By all means, I am not trying to say what you did it's wrong. The sole purpose of writing this is that I am hoping that you could probably guide me toward a way that I can keep playing this great game.

Thanks.
About my current activity, players of X3 usually lean towards war or economy. Through this (my first) playthrough I wanted to try as much thing as possible, to find out what I like and not like. I have done all I planned on doing in this game, finished plots etc. I have build up my war machine, amassed war vessels and build impressive and rich war oriented company /industry. On the end I virtually had no enemy to use all those stuff against. Some full scale war. This game is mainly not designed for endeavors of that scope but anyway. So.. I thought - why not? ; ) I've learned many useful stuff already and again. War is fun ; ) So is pushing game mechanics to is't limits.

[deca.death]

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Hi guys.
Just wanted to say that my planned invasion of xenon space begun well, I took two sectors. I may write more of it on main post with some pictures later. Though I -must- rant that you've slightly disappointed me - somehow I expected more suggestions of tactic /ships /used commands in this war operation (request is in second /edited post) but again, I understand that this is not really a thing /normal/players usually do so I'm not surprised by lack of experience ; )

Anyway in the beginning it was pretty messy, I even got myself killed several times but later on (thanks to Bill and his vast experience, of course) I've managed to set up my snail fort line with some LTs and detail of Terran battleships. It's still early to say but thing seems stable enough for first two days anyway.

[deca.death]

Question:

Is there a way to turn you factory off? I know that it can be done once it's in complex but if standalone? I'm getting annoyed with yellow flashing of every xenon sector I put my snail fort in..?

[cmdnenad]

Yes, there is. Open a slot in Command console, choose Administration and Station settings. Then click on <station name> (in operation).

[Starlight_Corporation]

Just found this thread, and I congratulate you for bringing the fight to the Xenon.
here's some tips and hints for xenon sectors I invaded.

X101 can indeed be a nasty sector to invade. Best way to invade it is by first going in with your personal fast ship, to lure the xenon away from the gate. When the xenon are faraway enough, jump in your fleet, and you can either jump out if things get too hot, or join your invading fleet. After this, it gets pretty good, just keep an eye out on the shipyard, it spawns Q's at a formidable rate. Either take it out asap, or go for hit&run.
Taking it out makes sure your invasion goes smooth, but has the disadvantage of Xenon reinforcements stampeding through half the universe.
Hit & Run is mainly to exterminate most xenon forces and then get the hell out. This can give you more casualties in the invasion as you allow the shipyard to spawn Q's, but the advantage of this is that no xenonsector comes and reinforces X101. Also keeps X101 silent for a long time before they start sending out patrols again.

Edit:How to handle X101 Nice thread with several suggestions on how to handle X101 (with this link on page 2 wich details how I handled them)

X472, to make it easier, send in some scouts to locate the gate with low/no guards (usually the Abyss side). Then split your fleet, and bring in the main attack force through the low guarded gate. It's a small sector, so you'll be in the heat of combat very fast. Try to take out the shipyard as soon as you can, the small size of the sector allows it to spawn Q's in the middle of your forces, a nasty sight.
Send in the second part of your attack force when the xenon cleared the other gate in their rally to defend from your agression. Now they're flanked from two sides, and things will go smooth.
Warning! Taking out this shipyard can cause a massive xenon migration/aggression. Post guardingships at all xenongates to block them, and be ready to face some fierce opposition. Does not always happen, but most of the time it does. It does make your universe suddenly a very lively place...
Extra: tried holding this sector, but it's small size made it impractical, the spawning reinforcements end up in the middle of your OOS defenders too much.

X598; same as above, send in scouts to see wich gate is least defended (usually the one bordering the xenon sector). Split your forces in 3. Main attack force jumps in at elast defended gate and goes pummeling the defenders. Normally you can send in the two other attackforces pretty fast. The sector is huge, and they don't seem to guard the gates that often. It's also very lowly populated with xenon ships.
Once you eliminated them, this sector can be hold relatively easy. Post Argon/teladi tradestations near the gates, and some across the tradelane to cover the NPC freighters to estabilish a strong foothold. As these tradestations have infinite dockingspace for fighters, you can load plenty, allowing you to have a rapid response taskforce in the sector when needed. Also keep some ships on patrol to the sectors bordering it, had a few times a Q ignored the agressor in his sector, to cause havoc in a bordering sector. Tigers make for excellent patrols as they are one of the few ships that get first strike on Q's due to their speed (only a fully tuned Q is faster, but those are extremely rare, never seen one personally) Extra advantage of the tiger is it's ability to intercept most xenon fighetrs due to it's speed.
Holding X598 for a while now, pretty easy sector to hold, just to to keep an eye on it from time to time.

All info I can help with, haven't tried the other Xenonsectors yet.

[Bill Huntington]

Congrats, deca.death!

When I was working on this one, I figured there was a way you could actually take and hold every Xenon sector. But I also understood that would probably tie you up with managing that from then on. So doing this as the last big thing in your game is just smart!

As you already know, you can take and hold X472. If you do this with strong defenses, this will be a Xenon magnet for the rest of the game. So while the Xenon go there, you can take their sectors one by one.

If you take X598 and hold it, this will cut off any K package that spawns "inside" from X598. Putting 3 or more Snail Ranch forts and their affiliated Lasertower (LT) blocks on the East Gate will block all the Xenon coming from "inside". If you make an inverted triangle with the tip near the East gate, then the "base" of that triangle will provide multiple target for the spawning Qs and other Xenon to crash on and be wiped out. With multiple targets, no one target will be overwhelmed. If a Snail Ranch, LT block, or defending M2 get worn down, there will be time to reinforce or replace. Choosing the East gate allows red Pirates to pass in the normal North - South lanes, and avoids a TC wide pirate war.

This can be done for each sector. A lot of time and trouble, but it can be done. And it is an automated defense, so you should be able to manage all the Xenon sectors you take, and possibly other things also. I have done a number of guides on different parts of doing all this.

Once the sectors are all done, then see how they hold when you blow the SY in Core 023. But you already know that one. I am looking forward to the report on that one.

Keep it up, deca !!

[deca.death]

Best way to invade it is by first going in with your personal fast ship, to lure the xenon away from the gate.

Thanks for your tips on clearing sectors although that work was already done. Nice story on that link, I enjoyed reading it . I know about entering with fast ship and luring blockade away, I just don't use it. For heavy gate breaches I just bring my Boreas and concentrate on evading fire from outside as described on first posts. I haven't encountered blockade that can't be dealt in that way yet.

I also don't use multiple ships. The idea seems enthralling but some of my earlier experiences (Clumsy fleet operations) shows that this game was not designed with big fleet operations in mind. In short big fleet operations IS are messy and causalities are expected more often then when you are attaching alone (sometimes even with friendly fire) I just go with one ship, and if seriously bruised I jump to my HQ, switch ships and return again.

Warning! Taking out this shipyard can cause a massive xenon migration/aggression. Post guardingships at all xenongates to block them, and be ready to face some fierce opposition. Does not always happen, but most of the time it does. It does make your universe suddenly a very lively place...

Yes that was exactly what I've hoped for. However response was not as brutal as I've hoped. Mind you I dedicated my full time, full fleet and substantial resources to exterminating the AI.

Also keep some ships on patrol to the sectors bordering it, had a few times a Q ignored the agressor in his sector, to cause havoc in a bordering sector.

I have my full xenon gate blockade forces in place. On few places I reduced the number (zyarth's and grand exchange) from 4 to 2 M2s but I put plenty of forces in 598-627 and core to disburden them.

[deca.death]

As you already know, you can take and hold X472. If you do this with strong defenses, this will be a Xenon magnet for the rest of the game. So while the Xenon go there, you can take their sectors one by one.

It's really not problem taking sectors this way. It's not a full scale occupation, that is simply impossible but rather constant military presence. I have taken 598, 627 ant the core (soon I will update my original post on last phase of operation, maybe even tonight) Thing is that you need to be careful and micromanage more (I have 5 osakas, EqD, 2 snail ranches and 100 LTs in the core 023 and still I need to jump osaka out on occasion to fill shields up) Also losses are possible /one odin (i reloaded, only one in fleet) and one osaka (i didn't : (

So, micromanage more, lot LOT of more investment (I kept my full scale gate blocked forces, machines sometimes ignore invaders and just head OUT) so you basically need 20-30 M2s in blockade and 30-40 more for somewhat safe occupation. You could do it with less but I wouldn't be comfortable with less ships.

Other thing is - it reduces my xenon hunting grounds. I like going in and attack the machines sometimes /often. I 'm also kind of grinding for my combat rank ; ) And I've learned that with decently defended Xenon snail fort it's best to keep OOS. Terran M2s rip everything apart OOS. IS damn agile Q will take third of shields of osaka before stupid M2 gets himself in firing position. And there are plenty of Qs inside, needles to say....

If you take X598 and hold it, this will cut off any K package that spawns "inside" from X598. Putting 3 or more Snail Ranch forts and their affiliated Lasertower (LT) blocks on the East Gate will block all the Xenon coming from "inside". If you make an inverted triangle with the tip near the East gate, then the "base" of that triangle will provide multiple target for the spawning Qs and other Xenon to crash on and be wiped out. With multiple targets, no one target will be overwhelmed. If a Snail Ranch, LT block, or defending M2 get worn down, there will be time to reinforce or replace. Choosing the East gate allows red Pirates to pass in the normal North - South lanes, and avoids a TC wide pirate war.

Good ideas here. Too bad you didn't reply earlier, I might have do something like this. I made slightly different thing, you'll see when I update thread.

Keep it up, deca !!

[Starlight_Corporation]

I agree with your assessment on using large fleets in the X series, it is a very clumsy & intensive proces, far from intuitive. I enjoy fleetfights, but rarely do them due to the heavy work involved. Combat fleetops can be made easier by alot of preparation, but it takes long and is certainly alot of trial and error.
I do fleetops from time to time because so far nothing beats the feeling of sitting in your commandship, directing your ships on the battlefield. However due to the high amount of work needed before I can strike (and inevitable losses to be replaced, as AI ships are less efficient then the player) I only go for it when I got the time spare, and the willingness.

If there is one thing I would wish for X-rebirth, then it is a better fleet interface (not only for combat; patrol, trade & miningfleets would become so much easier as well)

Endconclusion: Fleetops is a clumsy, expensive affair that requires determination & free time to get into. It is NOT an effiecient way to deal with enemies, a Boreas or M7M flown by the player can replace any fleet. Why do a fleetops? Because to me, nothing beats the feeling of seeing your fleet slug it out with the enemy.


Here is a nice tip for a rapid response task force (best when you have a serious income): Get a carrier that can house lots of fighters (50+) and fully equip it (I use the split Raptor, houses 65 fighters). Look for a fast, easely replacable fighter (I use the mamba raider for this, it's fast, and can be fully equipped the moment you buy the L version, just keep the EQdocks supplied with HEPTS) .Give them all a number & assign the carrier as their homebase (has to be done individually. Edit:can be made easier by assigning them to a wing, and then assign wing homebase to carrier, doesn't fix naming tho) This is the boring, annoying task.

Once you have done the preparation work (best done in steps of 10 to avoid boredom striking) you have one beasty taskforce, able to rip apart most enemy fleets OOS apart in moments when your structures are threatened. A carrier with 50+ M3 fighters is lethal. After each engangement you probably loose one to a few fighters, but they are easy to replace (stockmodels from shipyard, with eqipment on the EQdock) Due to the low number it's easier, and less annoying to assign their number, and the carrier as homebase.
Note, never give the carrier the attack command, just give it the order to launch it's fighters and attack the target. Also, due to the homebasing, you got your own independent fightergroup that you can collectivly command without disrupting any other fighters you own in the sector. EDIT: This is wrong! Got to be grouped in a wing (also makes homebasing easier, colelct in wing, then assign wing homebase to carrier) Apologies for this error.. got so used to them I forgot I winged them, more explanation next page)
Been using this tactic for a while, and it's great for enganging enemies OOS in large sectors (Khaak invasions, Pirate raids, if your relation with the pirates can be described as Open Fire).

PS: Keep up your war! Bring it to the Xenon, to show how fun it is, when their sectors are the ones getting razed!

[deca.death]

.

Third and final part of my Xenon war adventure have just been added, previous posts have been somehow modified and new content was added too (page one, first three posts) Experience was certainly fun. Thanks all for contribution.

[Bill Huntington]

Congrats, again! A job well done!

Most TC pilots test themselves against the Xenon. Clearing a Xenon sector means that you have arrived at a certain point, with your economics, your ships, your skills.

Gate blockades and making large parts of the TC universe pretty safe from the Xenon is pretty good.

It takes even more to invade the Xenon sectors and hold them.

So, again, Well done, deca. !!

A few points:

When you set up automated defenses that can hold up, I have found that nothing smaller than an M2 can last, and only the Osaka and Tyr have the staying power for this job. A heavy duty M1 and the Skirnir are
awesome weapons systems, and just fine for a Xenon sector invasion. But they cannot hang with a continued presence. Eventually a couple Ks or Qs will spawn close by, and the third one will catch you will weak shields. Bye Bye.

Deca. , your Snail Ranch fort has the basics just fine - M2s on Defend Position or similiar, Snail Ranch as anchor, and LTs. But with just one of them, it is the only magnet for Xenon attacks from all directions. It would be better to have more of them to spread the attacks out. There is a big problem. Your LTs will wear down eventually. Each Q might take out 1 or 2 LTs. Fair exchange, right? But over time, your LT block will thin out, and need replacements. Getting them there won't be easy, over time. I used an Elephant, with several hundred LTs in it. The Xenon came after it like crazy. So I put one fort on a Gate. And the next fort close to it. So the El or any other ship could advance between the two stations in relative safety to get where it needed to be, even with Ks and Qs attacking. I was also meticulous in placing the LTs, which took some time.

Combat rank - with all this automated death for the Xenon, we get no combat rank for it. These automated defenses can kill 20 to 30 spawing Qs and Ks over a short period, and we get NO combat rank for it.

After doing this great task, and seeing that you could do it for every Xenon sector, you also see that the task is all consuming. You can manage a multi sector occupation, and keep it going forever, with replacements and swapping ships in and out. But you can't do anything else. And it can get to be wearing to get one sector in order and then have some problems crop up in another sector and not be noticed soon enough. I also set up the whole game for this: big ore plants, then over 100 LT stations added after the HUB, gathering 20 Tyrs and a few Osakas. But a great TC experience !!!

Well done and well reported !!!

[David Howland]

This thread has become absolutely AWESOME!
What a read chaps, fantastic info. for the day I finish my game with a Xenon War.
Unfortunately, despite my game running two and a half years and entered its last third development-wise the Xenon war is on a distant horison for me. I have yet to get ready for boarding my first Tyr and my most advanced Xenon act is to set up an anti Xenon lab., not that its getting much use at the moment!
Carry on the good work and I look forward to a day when I can emulate it!

[cmdnenad]

Here is a nice tip for a rapid response task force (best when you have a serious income): Get a carrier that can house lots of fighters (50+) and fully equip it (I use the split Raptor, houses 65 fighters). Look for a fast, easely replacable fighter (I use the mamba raider for this, it's fast, and can be fully equipped the moment you buy the L version, just keep the EQdocks supplied with HEPTS) .Give them all a number & assign the carrier as their homebase (has to be done individually) This is the boring, annoying task.

Once you have done the preparation work (best done in steps of 10 to avoid boredom striking) you have one beasty taskforce, able to rip apart most enemy fleets OOS apart in moments when your structures are threatened. A carrier with 50+ M3 fighters is lethal. After each engangement you probably loose one to a few fighters, but they are easy to replace (stockmodels from shipyard, with eqipment on the EQdock) Due to the low number it's easier, and less annoying to assign their number, and the carrier as homebase.
Note, never give the carrier the attack command, just give it the order to launch it's fighters and attack the target. Also, due to the homebasing, you got your own independent fightergroup that you can collectivly command without disrupting any other fighters you own in the sector.
Been using this tactic for a while, and it's great for enganging enemies OOS in large sectors (Khaak invasions, Pirate raids, if your relation with the pirates can be described as Open Fire).

This is interesting... would you care to elaborate it a bit further?

Do you order your carrier to Launch fighter attack (this has limited range IIRC)? Or do you use fighter's Broadcast to all homebased fighters command? And how do you control them as a group once they are out of the carrier (assuming you don't want to use broadcast to ALL fighters in sector)?

Also, about your choice of the fighter.... wouldn't Mamba Vanguard be a better for OOS?. It is slower than Raider, but has double shields...

P.S. Sorry for off topic


@deca.death
Nice job!

[Master of the Blade]

Not sure if you're still wanting comments on viability of IS fleets and the other stuff, but I'll throw in some anyway.

Firstly, large numbers of capitals do not do well, as you've noted. However, I've been experimenting with a pack of frigates (Aegir, Tiger and Griffon atm, but I expect it'd work with pretty much any frigates.) with me at the head against the hordes of fighters Improved Races throws at me.

I thought it'd flop and the AI would be a hindrance, but the extra two frigates (both set to protect me, and generally given orders to either attack a specific target or just kill fighters) are actually very helpful - and happily follow me on my travels, generally behaving pretty well. (except when the Griffon decided to pull up 100m away from the broadside turret of a Carrack. That nearly ended badly. )

Since I'm running the Advanced Weapons Research Mod (and regretting it, btw - it introduces a lot of overpowered weapons which are spawned on every NPC in existence), the Aegir gets some use against capitals with the Adv. Fusion Beam Cannon, but I daresay a Panther/Tiger/Agamemnon would do pretty well instead.

I have it set up so: I fly the Tiger with an all-weather loadout - 8xIBL in the main grouped so that I can fire them as a bank of 2/4/6/8, to give varying levels of DPS versus recharge rate. PALCs in the sides work moderately well on everything (can be substituted for flak), while flaks go everywhere else.

The Griffon (substitutable for Deimos/Yokohama I guess) does what it does best - antifighter work with flak everywhere. While I keep it generally on 'protect me' so it follows me around it generally gets told to go after fighters or flank enemy frigates (combination of 'move to' and 'attack' to draw fire.

The Aegir (substitutable for Aggy/Panther/Tiger/Thresher) is a bludgeon. With massive burst damage from the AFBCs (or IBLs or PPCs depending on the substitute) it can evaporate a frigate, but then runs out of juice. You use this guy to take out annoying capitals while you can still keep him close for antifighter work. If you use the Thresher as a substitute, micromanagement or protection is required, since it can't take a hit.

I find this makes battles more fun, and can take some of the pressure off you. Personally I sometimes feel like a dirty cheat for using the strafe drive, so I rely on my allies to keep enemy fire spread out and manageable. The Aegir in particular has saved my behind on multiple occasions, and the Griffon keeps the fighters from overwhelming me.

Another thing, someone mentioned friendly fire /killing yourself with shadows? I'm pretty certain that I've seen on few occasions shadows passing through my ship harmlessly, not immediately after firing, but some time later. If anyone can confirm...?

I rarely use M7Ms, but that's probably when they've told an AI Skirnir to barrage/launch and got in the way, or it could be a random M5 detonating the missiles before they leave your ship. But yeah, missiles you fire will not collide with your ship.


X472 is ridiculously active for me too. Clear it out and BAM! In an hour everything's gone to hell again. I think that's par for the course - happens in all of my restarts and makes 472 my go-to sector for a scrap.

[Infekted]

The sector north of the core is always good for fight. Proper nasty sector in my experience. If you can survive/clear that then it's guuuuud.

[Starlight_Corporation]

Carrier task force

This is interesting... would you care to elaborate it a bit further?

Do you order your carrier to Launch fighter attack (this has limited range IIRC)? Or do you use fighter's Broadcast to all homebased fighters command? And how do you control them as a group once they are out of the carrier (assuming you don't want to use broadcast to ALL fighters in sector)?

Also, about your choice of the fighter.... wouldn't Mamba Vanguard be a better for OOS?. It is slower than Raider, but has double shields...

Started up the game for the finer details, and noticed a very important thing I forgot.... The fighetrs of the strike-carrier are winged... wich ofc overcomes alot of problems. I went back and etsted tons of stuff with two regular carriers with fighters (no wings) and remembered why they're winged: the homebase option for fightercarriers is very poorly implemented, it serves no purpose, except for only ordering docked homebased carriers... wich in 99% comes down to ordering the docked fighters. Once undocked, you can't command groups from one carrier sadly (homebased option vanishes in commands when undocked...)

Why the Raider and not the Vanguard? We're sending these fighters OOS to heavy stuff as well, so shields don't matter as much as firepower, and the Raider has an extra gun (turret) for more firepower. OOS combat makes sure the enemy pumps out his entire salvo at one target each round. If it's a large ship, your first fighter to reach it is dead, no matter it's shields (Falcon sentinel excepted, but he's got other problems) so you're better off bringing soemthing that has extra firepower.
There are heavelier armed ships, but most of those are way slower, non stock, or got hard to get weapons (spitfire would be topdog, if it's weaponfactoeries didn't risk dissapearing, EEMPC-forge)

To prevent going offtopic more, and risking this thread to be messy, i'll create a separate topic called Rapid Response Task Force to elaborate on it.