Egosoft please help me understand.

General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

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joelR
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Post by joelR » Wed, 31. Aug 11, 02:11

3 pages.....

Unknown Pwn
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Post by Unknown Pwn » Thu, 1. Sep 11, 03:56

I really don't care what people say about me. Ive pointed out the truth in the past and brought to light details that had already been brought to light.

Should anyone feel that my criticism is harsh on the receiving end(ego soft) then perhaps its cutting to the realm of reality?

For, were it not so, then it would be left alone, yet what you see is a persistent repetition of the same issues, complaints, and wants and desires by the community only to be summarily ignored, and yet another X expansion that guides its players down an abyssal rail towards massive time synch.

Ill restate my points:

Once you have reached end game, the universe is Dead. Were it dynamic, capable of scaled expansion and destruction based around resource availability, and natural wonders, the game would not be quite so dead.

And further still, were the game capable of multi-player, it would be less dead within a vastly dead Universe.

There are two major problems with a multi-player X Universe.
Time and Money, to develop its potential.

Secondary problems being codding that can not be easily hacked.
Cost of a master server.
Time and Money yet again to get the kinks out.

And last but not least


A complete and total revamp of the UI


PS. Right click is here to stay and for good reason.


I wont be adding any more thoughts to this thread. I completely agree with several people simply because they manage to point out the obvious, which is continuously being obfuscated by heads of the community, counter-propagandists that need to be reeducated and the ignorant.

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Post by DaveDash » Thu, 1. Sep 11, 04:26

Unknown Pwn wrote:I really don't care what people say about me. Ive pointed out the truth in the past and brought to light details that had already been brought to light.

Should anyone feel that my criticism is harsh on the receiving end(ego soft) then perhaps its cutting to the realm of reality?

For, were it not so, then it would be left alone, yet what you see is a persistent repetition of the same issues, complaints, and wants and desires by the community only to be summarily ignored, and yet another X expansion that guides its players down an abyssal rail towards massive time synch.

Ill restate my points:

Once you have reached end game, the universe is Dead. Were it dynamic, capable of scaled expansion and destruction based around resource availability, and natural wonders, the game would not be quite so dead.

And further still, were the game capable of multi-player, it would be less dead within a vastly dead Universe.

There are two major problems with a multi-player X Universe.
Time and Money, to develop its potential.

Secondary problems being codding that can not be easily hacked.
Cost of a master server.
Time and Money yet again to get the kinks out.

And last but not least


A complete and total revamp of the UI


PS. Right click is here to stay and for good reason.


I wont be adding any more thoughts to this thread. I completely agree with several people simply because they manage to point out the obvious, which is continuously being obfuscated by heads of the community, counter-propagandists that need to be reeducated and the ignorant.
The universe is only dead if you let it be dead. There are plenty of house rules or roleplaying you can do to keep the universe alive. There are also mods you can play, as long as you don't care about the modified tag.

There are some games that are just made to be single player first and foremost. X is one of them. Other such games, Morrowind (similiar to X in many ways, but RPG), Dragon Age, etc.

Then there is the resources.

Egosoft would have to divert a huge section of their resources to balancing the game for multiplayer, writing code for multiplayer, etc etc. This means that with limited resources single player would suffer. I'd rather they just focus on creating a very solid, mostly bug free, with good AI X-Rebirth game than worry about multiplayer. X3TC is still very rough around the edges, so I'd like them get single player right in the future before even beginning to think about multiplayer. :)

The way you need to look at it is: Would multiplayer add to the game? Yes. However, at what cost to single player?

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Post by delstars » Thu, 1. Sep 11, 07:20

Edit: Wow I went WAYYYY overboard on this. :lol:

I agree with alot of things said in the thread such as the fact that the Universe is static, or that multiplayer AVAILABILITY would be nice. However we are all imperfect and there are limits to what we can do. I personaly loved the game when I was going through it, loved it. However when I got closer to the end, it sorta got boring because I was stuck doing combat missions over and over again. (I never did embrace the trade aspect) I did however love exploring, and going through plots. Now the static thing is a problem however, that could be fixed with things put in the game to balance it better. Such as a more involved AI. Say another company that sees you as a threat to business, and "deals with the problem". I would enjoy more story lines or a more involved one, but I understand they need to adress issues and new games before they will be able to even think about improving it more. (Which egosoft has done VERY well) All that aside I am now going to adress the multiplayer issue. As was mentioned before, MMO would be a disaster. Have you ever played a game such as darkorbit? I tell you that it absolutely SUCKS being held back by the other players that have hundreds of dollars to put into a game. I played that for a while thinking I had a hope of winning the biggest ship at an auction that required ig money. (not the stuff that you had to buy) Eventualy I did get one (after a VERY long time with much hardship) and you know what, I still got destroyed because they introduced something else that again improved the biggest ship, put in new ammo that you had to buy, and the people with money go around preying on the people that don't. It sucked. In the X series, some person would get a M2, and he/she would dominate. They'd go around and destroy everyone. Granted more than one may get to that point but then nobody else can get to that point because any rising power would be noticed and dealt with. Then there are hackers. (point already made) Like was said the only way that multiplayer would work would be a LAN short combat rounds or something like that. Now I personaly would like this but I understand that it isn't easy to program all of this. I personaly would rather have Rebirth over something like that any day. Finally, where do you get the right to go calling the devs at Egosoft lazy! Look at the X games. The X games are arguably the best space sims ever made. While there are other ones out there that may be better, (I've never found any) the X series is extremely well made and is always progressing with new things and games with people always playing it. If people didn't like the games, or if they were poor quality, do you think that the forum would be as active as it is. As an example, Need for Speed is a popular series and unless there is some sort of new release or something going on in the series, you can expect to get a reply to a post on the forum in about a day or even more. Here, I've gotten replies within 5 minutes and issue solved within half an hour. Don't call them lazy, because you know nothing about their lives, and how much work they actually. Lazy people aren't known for producing something of high quality.

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Post by deca.death » Thu, 1. Sep 11, 07:33

Unknown Pwn wrote: Once you have reached end game, the universe is Dead. Were it dynamic, capable of scaled expansion and destruction based around resource availability, and natural wonders, the game would not be quite so dead.
I really don't remember when I burn in more hundreds of gaming hours in a game and have more fun then in X3 "dead" universe. While other single player games offer linear experience of several hours, X3 stands out today as tower of replayability, content, and ability to make the game "your own" in a hundreds of game decision. As a game it's absolutely unique, and yes, it has maybe hundreds of badly implemented solutions, unpolished parts, bugs and exploits but that's only because of it's immense scope - game with this scope and content cannot avoid every problem. If they concentrated on smaller scale game believe me it would be much "better", it might even have multiplayer - thank God they didn't.



There are two major problems with a multi-player X Universe.
Time and Money, to develop its potential.

Secondary problems being codding that can not be easily hacked.
Cost of a master server.
Time and Money yet again to get the kinks out.

And last but not least


A complete and total revamp of the UI
As I've said already on several occasion, X3 full scale multiplayer game would not be anything like game we know (and love) now. It would have to be entirely different product, in concept, style and mechanics. Thousands of parts have to be completely changed. It would simply not be X3 anymore, only potentially good MMO game very loosely based on X3 setting.

So we have a situation of game company that fills out unique niche on gaming market today, making great game people love, buy and play, arrangement where everybody is happy and then some guy like yourself comes out of the blue and asks: hey, why do you do that? Why not try something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT? Claiming that his clever idea can "improve" that flawless developer-community arrangement. I'm sorry friend but you clearly don't know what you are talking about or asking in this case. It has no sense.

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Post by perkint » Thu, 1. Sep 11, 19:36

Unknown Pwn wrote:For, were it not so, then it would be left alone
If your criticism were not true, it would be left alone? Really don't follow that logic!!
Unknown Pwn wrote:There are two major problems with a multi-player X Universe.
Time and Money, to develop its potential.
Correct. As is answered every time this subject comes up. I don't understand what you're saying here, since you're complaining about Egosoft and then providing the reason they don't do multiplayer??
Unknown Pwn wrote:manage to point out the obvious, which is continuously being obfuscated by heads of the community, counter-propagandists that need to be reeducated and the ignorant.
But you have just provided the same response as those requests usually get! Are you referring to yourself with that? :p

Tim
Struggling to find something from the forums - Google it!!! :D

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Post by Naroku » Thu, 1. Sep 11, 20:52

Well for time playing X3 tc the steam part said....992 hours :) This the same inital plot I started green....STILL getting the silicon done while starting the powers missions next.
Walk softly and carry a big gun.

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Nafensoriel
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Post by Nafensoriel » Thu, 1. Sep 11, 22:39

Just to drop in a word from the older crowd here....

The majority of gamers are fathers and mothers. 30-50 something adults. Shockingly enough very few of this group really give a damn about MP in every single game. In fact.. MP requires time and effort.. things we, the average gamer, have in short supply thanks to careers and children. A game like X where we can pause and talk to a family member or do some household task is far more preferred.

Does this mean that this age group hates multiplayer? Hell no. We enjoy it intensely. L4D2, TF2, Starcraft 1/2, SoaSE, SC Forged Alliance, Mechwarrior, etc etc. TONS of games out there offer on demand multiplayer that we enjoy. WHEN we feel like playing with another human being.. that is the key element here.. We sometimes like just RELAXING from our busy lives. X and a pause button does a damned fine job of that.

This trend to Co-Op and MP everything is really kind of stupid. It limits as much as it grants opportunities and is not a sovereign for success.

Unless I am the only old fart who gets grumpy about games like portal 2 where I have to pay full price for a game I only play half of because I can barely stand the "must have now" generation of teenagers or have a decided lack of interest in trying to set up and coordinate my gaming time and schedules with another individual. (AKA when I feel like gaming.. I game. I don't intend to wait for someone else to get off the pot first or eat dinner.)
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Post by Vim Razz » Fri, 2. Sep 11, 09:57

It's kind of amazing that this thread has gone on for so long...

As has been mentioned a few times now, there are a ~huge~ number of things which would have to change (in the game engine itself!) to function as a stable multiplayer game.

It's not just a mater of getting it to run on a shared server, the basic gameplay mechanics themselves would have to change at every level.

You'd probably end up with something that looks like a knock-off of EVE Online if you took the time to do it right -- and there already happens to be a pretty good game right now that currently fills that particular market niche.

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Post by TTD » Fri, 2. Sep 11, 10:28

My usual answer to people who complain about the series and say it could be better is...


Send a sample of their own good programming to show how they would improve the game.

If they can't programme , then stop complaining.

But now there has been so much negativity from some that I will add...

No one is forcing them to play the game.
Go and find a game that they enjoy .

CBJ
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Post by CBJ » Fri, 2. Sep 11, 12:38

I've removed the insults and unpleasantness from this thread so that genuine discussion can continue. One last time: criticism is acceptable, insults are not.

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Masochisto
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Post by Masochisto » Fri, 2. Sep 11, 12:40

TTD wrote:My usual answer to people who complain about the series and say it could be better is...


Send a sample of their own good programming to show how they would improve the game.

If they can't programme , then stop complaining.

But now there has been so much negativity from some that I will add...

No one is forcing them to play the game.
Go and find a game that they enjoy .
I think criticizing the game is valid, and it is part of the evolutionary process that provides Egosoft with some of the feedback they need to make better games.

The issue with this thread s that the X series is just completely incompatible with multiplayer. While the OP may regard this conclusion as "lazy", the conclusion is still valid. The computer and the player play by different rules in the X series. If it were multiplayer and the first player to login on release day placed silicon mindes on all the high yield silicon asteroids then what would other people do? That player would have a huge advantage for the rest of the game...

There are many community members that have improved this game and smoothed over many of its warts. If you have only ever playerd Vanilla X, and have never had a modified game, then you have not played the best of the game. Try on of the rebalance mods; they are a beautiful thing.

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Post by Alan Phipps » Fri, 2. Sep 11, 13:07

The Egosoft X series up to and including Rebirth is never going to be multi-player - a stated fact after years of consideration of the suggestion and for business reasons clearly known to Egosoft, so sheer 'laziness' surely cannot be an issue.

There is a body of players who like the thought of a multi-player space empire sim (perhaps of a similar look and feel to elements of the X series). How big that body is and how much it would be prepared to spend on such a game is unknown to us but will surely have been at least market-assessed by several big gaming developers with multi-player game experience. Has any such company approached Egosoft for further joint development investigations or is considering developing one with a broadly similar theme separately? - No idea.

To the multi-player base - it is the latter type of company that you need to be providing your feedback and wishes to - you know who they are.
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