Egosoft please help me understand.

General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

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Pirate hater
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Post by Pirate hater » Mon, 29. Aug 11, 12:19

Skeeter wrote:
Pirate hater wrote:
Roh81 wrote::p I tried searching for a decent answer already. But mostly all I found was "no". Or brief comments that sounded like the excuse of a lazy bum. There is just too much detail in the X universe games for them to be lazy. Im just hoping to learn why.

If anyone knows of a thread with an answer worth reading please toss in a link!
I can tell you now that its due to the game engine having to be changed to much and the game play being designed for single players. How would you get seta to work? without it the game would be very dull with travel times being massively increased.

This is really the worst post about multiplayer because.

1. Its a new engine so no excuses on that front.
2. Seta is gone so no excuses on that one.
3. New gameplay is for x rebirth so no excuses on that one either.

Reasons i think their is no mp is because.
A couple of points.

1. the original post is about X2 or X3 getting multiplayer not X4.

2. X4 sounds very different. I am not that interested in X4 now they have released some info.

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Post by Samuel Creshal » Mon, 29. Aug 11, 12:40

Skeeter wrote:2. ES have no experience with mp and i have no idea if they even can code mp code or if they have to get someone new in to code it that knows network code. As ES have only done sp games for now.
The only network stuff Egosoft ever did was the Devchat. And boooy, that's a messy piece of technology… :roll:
3. Money which is usually the always given reason but tbh if they wanted mp in they could ask for more money off the publisher or find a diff publisher who would give them more, deepsilver aint the only pub around.
Money doesn't grow on trees. As CBJ said, a multiplayer wouldn't boost the sales numbers noticable, so it would be wasted money from the publishers point of view.
Why invest in a multiplayer, if people are buying a cheaper produced singleplayer game anyway? That's not profitable, and profit is everything that counts. :roll:

And I doubt they can switch publishers "just like that". We don't know what contracts Egosoft and Deep Silver have. Does Egosoft even own the X brand? Does the contract have a minimum term? Etc. pp.

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Post by Skeeter » Mon, 29. Aug 11, 12:41

My bad, didn't read the op properly i thought he was going on about no mp for the new game.
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Post by ancienthighway » Mon, 29. Aug 11, 12:43

Money which is usually the always given reason but tbh if they wanted mp in they could ask for more money off the publisher or find a diff publisher who would give them more, deepsilver aint the only pub around.
In one of the other posts on this subject, it was pointed out that Egosoft did request funds for giving X-R a multiplayer option. DeepSilver, the publisher, denied the request. I'd assume they crunched the numbers, weighed the costs for the current single player version in development and the additional cost for multiplayer functionality against the projected revenue for the new game, both single player and multiplayer. Money currently available for the development cycles also has to be considered.

As far as just going out and finding a different publisher willing to foot the bill, first any contractual obligation with DeepSilver would have to be bought off. That would probably include reimbursing DeepSilver for all current costs to develop Rebirth. (Just a thought, but if ES had that kind of cash, they wouldn't have to ask for money to implement mp.)

Then another publisher would have to be convinced to take on a niche game and commit money to it. Not a simple task on any point.

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Post by TTD » Mon, 29. Aug 11, 13:00

I am quite happy with the present symbiotic relationship between Egosoft/Deep Silver etc.

Ok,the distribution network might not be up to scratch for some countries , hence Steam ,Gamersgate and Impulse.

Otherwise,why fix what's not broken?

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Post by altbeb » Mon, 29. Aug 11, 13:00

i actually don't mind the single player in the X series.. multi player would be great though..being able to construct a huge fleet of capitals and then invade an opponents sector...having to actually have defences in place at your installations.. :D

ho.. have been away for x3 for a while due to work commitments, like the idea of the new x-game.. but a bit of topic..a single ship...?? :shock: :gruebel:

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Post by niadh » Mon, 29. Aug 11, 13:01

In X3TC Multiplayer wouldn't work.
Mainly because the first person to have enough money to acquire an M7M and a complex to produce missiles would pretty much win the game from the other side of each sector.
Wait until someone builds a factory, jump in, launch enough missiles to destroy it, kill TL, jump out.

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Post by Sixense » Mon, 29. Aug 11, 13:35

The only way I see for multiplayer to work is 2, 3, maximum 4 people LAN server to play together. Not an MMO I agree, but it's the best fitting multiplayer option, to play with few friends and conquer the universe together.

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Post by Virtualaughing » Mon, 29. Aug 11, 13:46

How can your PC handle your empire?
How big is your empire anyway?
Did you visited all the sectors and did you fill them all with your ships ?
(ofc Khaak n Xenon sectors will be foolish)
What if i don't have life and my only goal will be to hit every place where silicon found?

Based on script editor i have found once 300.000 script task running and it is only me. We have some exceptionally notorious players among us. I think we require another server. I mean 1 server / person. Then it won't be multiplayer :D

As much as i saw from EVE i can tell, you can't compare that for the X universe
Not to mention the huge bandwidth that requires for exchange that HUGE amount of data in every 100 millisec. Abowe that it is considered as Laggy Gameplay :D
X to X3 is MENU SUPERIOR!
I think Egosoft has already worked out our doom, because Xenon AI will reach the stars! :D

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Post by perkint » Mon, 29. Aug 11, 15:10

SETA is not the issue. Empire building is not the issue. Computer power is not the issue. The only issue meaning it doesn't happen is money. There are ways round all the smaller points. But, the fact that mutliplayer will not recoup the development costs is the absolute blocking issue.

And, swapping publisher is not a solution. What reason would another publisher have for giving funds to an unprofitable enterprise that DeepSilver has refused?

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Re: Egosoft please help me understand.

Post by brattbags01 » Mon, 29. Aug 11, 21:23

Roh81 wrote:Okay I know there have been many threads about this. I think I asked once a couple years ago. This time is a little different. I am not asking if you will. Im asking for a honest and reasonable detailed reason for why you all will NOT do multiplayer?

It doesn't need all sorts of new fangled features or shininess. It doesnt need to support five million simultaneous player connections... You all could take x2. Change absolutely NOTHING about how the game works. Just add netcode with the ability to run a persistent server. I mean it could cap out at 20 players at a time. i dont care. Just give us a little chat feature and the ability to be in the same x2 game... And I would buy the game again. Without complaint. You could do something that simple and I would be happy. Hell I bet at least 80% of your fans would be.

So my question is why not? Is the Ego in egosoft making you wait till you all can confidently manage a uselessly large mmo, cause I can say we got that and dont need another. Smaller scale more personal community would rock. Is it an irrational fear of netcode? You cant take the idea of sharing your x-universe? I mean you dont have to USE multiplayer.. Just let us have it!!! Wait... Is it the boggyman? Did he say he would come and take you all away if you added multiplayer?

Jokes aside what is it really? You already have the perfect game world built. What makes persistent multiplayer servers so hard? Please help me understand.
Sigh.....not again
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Post by Naroku » Mon, 29. Aug 11, 21:39

Multiplayer option will not add enough sales to make it a viable option. Simple. People are in business to make money.
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Post by MOH_Skid » Tue, 30. Aug 11, 21:35

Sixense wrote:The only way I see for multiplayer to work is 2, 3, maximum 4 people LAN server to play together. Not an MMO I agree, but it's the best fitting multiplayer option, to play with few friends and conquer the universe together.
How do you see this working? Having the game server running 24/7? Are your friends staying over to play on your LAN for 150 hours straight? What happens to the guy who has to go home? Does his in-game stuff disappear? Does he fall hopelessly behind the remaining players?

I used to think having multiplayer X3TC would be great. But, really, I think I just wanted a way to show off my trading fleet or my cool complexes. I just can't see hosting or joining an X3 multiplayer game and starting from scratch. And then having to quit in three hours. I imagine the overall player progress would be much lower/slower at the start since 4 players are competing for the same deals and resources.

Doesn't sound so fun now...

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Post by Starforge1 » Wed, 31. Aug 11, 00:10

MOH_Skid wrote:
Sixense wrote:The only way I see for multiplayer to work is 2, 3, maximum 4 people LAN server to play together. Not an MMO I agree, but it's the best fitting multiplayer option, to play with few friends and conquer the universe together.
How do you see this working? Having the game server running 24/7? Are your friends staying over to play on your LAN for 150 hours straight? What happens to the guy who has to go home? Does his in-game stuff disappear? Does he fall hopelessly behind the remaining players?

I used to think having multiplayer X3TC would be great. But, really, I think I just wanted a way to show off my trading fleet or my cool complexes. I just can't see hosting or joining an X3 multiplayer game and starting from scratch. And then having to quit in three hours. I imagine the overall player progress would be much lower/slower at the start since 4 players are competing for the same deals and resources.

Doesn't sound so fun now...

Skid
I'm not advocating for this since ES obviously isn't going to be pursueing it at the moment, however:

A dedicated server could work quite well - 'lan' mode being what it is (I routinely connect with friends 3000 miles away and play 'lan' games.) Leave it up or shut down / save when you've finished a session. As long as the ability exists to save it when you want (which it would) then the rest becomes house rules agreed upon.

With X3 as it exists, however, the problem would be as others have stated - it's too easy for a player to simply wreck things at will. In order to change that a lot of rebalancing of weapon systems and defenses would have to be done for a competetive (not co-operative) game.

It's too bad Jumpgate Evolution folded into probable vaporware or I would direct the OP that way. Even that, however, was more of a space fighter fighting sim rather than a economic sandbox game.
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Post by Virtualaughing » Wed, 31. Aug 11, 01:38

I hope you n me will build a HUGE complex beside eachother in most of the sectors :D
X to X3 is MENU SUPERIOR!
I think Egosoft has already worked out our doom, because Xenon AI will reach the stars! :D

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Post by joelR » Wed, 31. Aug 11, 02:11

3 pages.....

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Post by Unknown Pwn » Thu, 1. Sep 11, 03:56

I really don't care what people say about me. Ive pointed out the truth in the past and brought to light details that had already been brought to light.

Should anyone feel that my criticism is harsh on the receiving end(ego soft) then perhaps its cutting to the realm of reality?

For, were it not so, then it would be left alone, yet what you see is a persistent repetition of the same issues, complaints, and wants and desires by the community only to be summarily ignored, and yet another X expansion that guides its players down an abyssal rail towards massive time synch.

Ill restate my points:

Once you have reached end game, the universe is Dead. Were it dynamic, capable of scaled expansion and destruction based around resource availability, and natural wonders, the game would not be quite so dead.

And further still, were the game capable of multi-player, it would be less dead within a vastly dead Universe.

There are two major problems with a multi-player X Universe.
Time and Money, to develop its potential.

Secondary problems being codding that can not be easily hacked.
Cost of a master server.
Time and Money yet again to get the kinks out.

And last but not least


A complete and total revamp of the UI


PS. Right click is here to stay and for good reason.


I wont be adding any more thoughts to this thread. I completely agree with several people simply because they manage to point out the obvious, which is continuously being obfuscated by heads of the community, counter-propagandists that need to be reeducated and the ignorant.

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Post by DaveDash » Thu, 1. Sep 11, 04:26

Unknown Pwn wrote:I really don't care what people say about me. Ive pointed out the truth in the past and brought to light details that had already been brought to light.

Should anyone feel that my criticism is harsh on the receiving end(ego soft) then perhaps its cutting to the realm of reality?

For, were it not so, then it would be left alone, yet what you see is a persistent repetition of the same issues, complaints, and wants and desires by the community only to be summarily ignored, and yet another X expansion that guides its players down an abyssal rail towards massive time synch.

Ill restate my points:

Once you have reached end game, the universe is Dead. Were it dynamic, capable of scaled expansion and destruction based around resource availability, and natural wonders, the game would not be quite so dead.

And further still, were the game capable of multi-player, it would be less dead within a vastly dead Universe.

There are two major problems with a multi-player X Universe.
Time and Money, to develop its potential.

Secondary problems being codding that can not be easily hacked.
Cost of a master server.
Time and Money yet again to get the kinks out.

And last but not least


A complete and total revamp of the UI


PS. Right click is here to stay and for good reason.


I wont be adding any more thoughts to this thread. I completely agree with several people simply because they manage to point out the obvious, which is continuously being obfuscated by heads of the community, counter-propagandists that need to be reeducated and the ignorant.
The universe is only dead if you let it be dead. There are plenty of house rules or roleplaying you can do to keep the universe alive. There are also mods you can play, as long as you don't care about the modified tag.

There are some games that are just made to be single player first and foremost. X is one of them. Other such games, Morrowind (similiar to X in many ways, but RPG), Dragon Age, etc.

Then there is the resources.

Egosoft would have to divert a huge section of their resources to balancing the game for multiplayer, writing code for multiplayer, etc etc. This means that with limited resources single player would suffer. I'd rather they just focus on creating a very solid, mostly bug free, with good AI X-Rebirth game than worry about multiplayer. X3TC is still very rough around the edges, so I'd like them get single player right in the future before even beginning to think about multiplayer. :)

The way you need to look at it is: Would multiplayer add to the game? Yes. However, at what cost to single player?

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Post by delstars » Thu, 1. Sep 11, 07:20

Edit: Wow I went WAYYYY overboard on this. :lol:

I agree with alot of things said in the thread such as the fact that the Universe is static, or that multiplayer AVAILABILITY would be nice. However we are all imperfect and there are limits to what we can do. I personaly loved the game when I was going through it, loved it. However when I got closer to the end, it sorta got boring because I was stuck doing combat missions over and over again. (I never did embrace the trade aspect) I did however love exploring, and going through plots. Now the static thing is a problem however, that could be fixed with things put in the game to balance it better. Such as a more involved AI. Say another company that sees you as a threat to business, and "deals with the problem". I would enjoy more story lines or a more involved one, but I understand they need to adress issues and new games before they will be able to even think about improving it more. (Which egosoft has done VERY well) All that aside I am now going to adress the multiplayer issue. As was mentioned before, MMO would be a disaster. Have you ever played a game such as darkorbit? I tell you that it absolutely SUCKS being held back by the other players that have hundreds of dollars to put into a game. I played that for a while thinking I had a hope of winning the biggest ship at an auction that required ig money. (not the stuff that you had to buy) Eventualy I did get one (after a VERY long time with much hardship) and you know what, I still got destroyed because they introduced something else that again improved the biggest ship, put in new ammo that you had to buy, and the people with money go around preying on the people that don't. It sucked. In the X series, some person would get a M2, and he/she would dominate. They'd go around and destroy everyone. Granted more than one may get to that point but then nobody else can get to that point because any rising power would be noticed and dealt with. Then there are hackers. (point already made) Like was said the only way that multiplayer would work would be a LAN short combat rounds or something like that. Now I personaly would like this but I understand that it isn't easy to program all of this. I personaly would rather have Rebirth over something like that any day. Finally, where do you get the right to go calling the devs at Egosoft lazy! Look at the X games. The X games are arguably the best space sims ever made. While there are other ones out there that may be better, (I've never found any) the X series is extremely well made and is always progressing with new things and games with people always playing it. If people didn't like the games, or if they were poor quality, do you think that the forum would be as active as it is. As an example, Need for Speed is a popular series and unless there is some sort of new release or something going on in the series, you can expect to get a reply to a post on the forum in about a day or even more. Here, I've gotten replies within 5 minutes and issue solved within half an hour. Don't call them lazy, because you know nothing about their lives, and how much work they actually. Lazy people aren't known for producing something of high quality.

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Post by deca.death » Thu, 1. Sep 11, 07:33

Unknown Pwn wrote: Once you have reached end game, the universe is Dead. Were it dynamic, capable of scaled expansion and destruction based around resource availability, and natural wonders, the game would not be quite so dead.
I really don't remember when I burn in more hundreds of gaming hours in a game and have more fun then in X3 "dead" universe. While other single player games offer linear experience of several hours, X3 stands out today as tower of replayability, content, and ability to make the game "your own" in a hundreds of game decision. As a game it's absolutely unique, and yes, it has maybe hundreds of badly implemented solutions, unpolished parts, bugs and exploits but that's only because of it's immense scope - game with this scope and content cannot avoid every problem. If they concentrated on smaller scale game believe me it would be much "better", it might even have multiplayer - thank God they didn't.



There are two major problems with a multi-player X Universe.
Time and Money, to develop its potential.

Secondary problems being codding that can not be easily hacked.
Cost of a master server.
Time and Money yet again to get the kinks out.

And last but not least


A complete and total revamp of the UI
As I've said already on several occasion, X3 full scale multiplayer game would not be anything like game we know (and love) now. It would have to be entirely different product, in concept, style and mechanics. Thousands of parts have to be completely changed. It would simply not be X3 anymore, only potentially good MMO game very loosely based on X3 setting.

So we have a situation of game company that fills out unique niche on gaming market today, making great game people love, buy and play, arrangement where everybody is happy and then some guy like yourself comes out of the blue and asks: hey, why do you do that? Why not try something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT? Claiming that his clever idea can "improve" that flawless developer-community arrangement. I'm sorry friend but you clearly don't know what you are talking about or asking in this case. It has no sense.

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