How to kill M6 and M7 with a fighter and without missiles.

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RyuKazuha
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Post by RyuKazuha » Wed, 10. Feb 10, 13:20

imperium3 wrote:Do the Washi, Senshei, Karyudo and Akurei actually have their own models? I was under the impression they don't (like the Shuri for example).

And what's the Pirate Marauder?
Fully named "Marauder Hauler"

Most of the Yaki-Models are derived from other Races M6 and M7

Edit: Added Argon, OTAS and Goner.

brattbags01
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Post by brattbags01 » Wed, 10. Feb 10, 19:32

Can't really see this working, one blast of flak weaponry (M7) and you're toast :(

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Gazz
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Post by Gazz » Wed, 10. Feb 10, 19:39

See my last post. Any M1/2/7 (except Khaak) is dead meat against a player fighter.
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Post by Master of the Blade » Wed, 10. Feb 10, 19:39

But that's the whole point of the thread- to tell people WHERE on an enemy ship you won't get fragged by FLAK cannons! I think it is rather useful for when you have a Q(or other enemy race frigate) epidemic in the early game and need to kill them using a fighter.
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Gazz
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Post by Gazz » Wed, 10. Feb 10, 20:23

Yes, but the WHERE can have more than one meaning, depending on what lasers your ship has. =)

At a range of 2.3 - 2.8 km to the closest Flak turret, your ship is perfectly safe from Flak/PRG but can hammer the target into oblivion.
And it works the same way against every capital ship without having to memorise individual blind spots.
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RyuKazuha
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Post by RyuKazuha » Wed, 10. Feb 10, 21:28

@brattbags01: That's the point of using blind spots, the enemy turrets can't get a target on you there and thus won't shoot. The AI simply stops shooting, if you are not in the con of fire of it's weapons.

@Gazz: Sure, you can kill anything with the right gun, but this guide isn't about how to out range a M6 or M7, it's about how to deal with it independent of your load out. Your addition is somewhat like saying i could also just use another M7 and take it head on, right, but not quite the intention i had in mind.

When writing this, I assumed a early game state, where you've a couple of PACs or HEPTs to go with, wich are quite easy to obtain.

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Post by garv222 » Wed, 10. Feb 10, 23:14

While it's possible to take out m7's with a fighter... I think I'll fall asleep doing it. The heaviest weapon a fighter can typically carry is around a HEPT power wise I suppose. Then factor in power generator on a fighter.... it's just not fun anymore(at least for me).... and one big sneeze while I'm flying and I can accidentally wander into a blind spot and get a 1 shot KO isn't helping. I suppose you could use missiles...but then I'd be firing from 3km+.

This list is still great for me using my hyperion or perhaps when I get a spring blossom. Both are great ships for doing strafing runs like a less maneuverable fighter. Got into a "furball" with 4 xenon Q's and had great fun weaving in and out firing tornado missiles. Somehow that's more fun than lobbing typhoons at them.

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Post by RyuKazuha » Wed, 10. Feb 10, 23:34

Well, i tend to use my Perseus XT with 4 PBE, 2 PAC and 2 HEPT, but for the sake of getting more intel to base this guide on, i also did it with only 4 PACs iirc.

It takes some time, and sure, if you have a M6, it's just dumb not to use it, if you want to do it quickly, however it can be quite some challenge and finally watching this thing explode just gives you the feeling to really have proven yourself worthy.

And if there is a way to take down an M2 with a Fighter, im quite sure I'll find it. :P Without rockets of course. However, i doubt this is possible, a M3 is generally to slow to evade enemy fire long enough (since none of the M2s seems to have a blind spot worth calling) and M4/M5 just don't bring the weapon power to do damage that isn't just absorbed be the shield recharge.

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Gazz
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Post by Gazz » Wed, 10. Feb 10, 23:35

RyuKazuha wrote:Your addition is somewhat like saying i could also just use another M7 and take it head on, right, but not quite the intention i had in mind.
Now I think you're getting confused. This thread is about fighters taking on M7 or bigger. =)
All I'm saying is that you can use a fighter... with a different approach regarding weapons and tactics.
(Actually, I'm uncommonly on topic here =)

Knowing about blind spots is not the only way to fight something bigger. It's useful alright but still only one way.

Knowing yours and your prey's laser ranges and turret placement can be just as effective.
In fact, it's safer because there is no ingress phase during which you usually have to cross at least one Flak turret's arc of fire.

You're also not at knife range this way. While hugging the prey it can fire missiles right through it's own hull which leaves you or your turrets practically no time to shoot them down because you can not shoot through the ship. This can get ugly in a real hurry.
Staying out of range you can also turn around and bolt anytime. A worthy consideration for a terrier attacking a bear. =)


With PBE and HEPT you're going to take an eternity for this.
Using EBC you can drop a destroyer in the time you might need for an M6 with your energy lasers and you can safely stay out of Flak range while doing so.

RyuKazuha wrote:And if there is a way to take down an M2 with a Fighter, im quite sure I'll find it. :P Without rockets of course. However, i doubt this is possible, a M3 is generally to slow to evade enemy fire long enough (since none of the M2s seems to have a blind spot worth calling) and M4/M5 just don't bring the weapon power to do damage that isn't just absorbed be the shield recharge.
But that's what I did quite casually like that. Launch Eclipse, head to paranid M2, go dakkadakkadakka, target go boom.
No great preparation or reloads...

An Eclipse is quite useful for that because it has the cargo space for the ammo and with shields like that you don't have to be as careful about stray PPC bolts. =)
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Post by RyuKazuha » Thu, 11. Feb 10, 00:25

Yeah, okay, depending on the Thread title, you're right, your method would fit in, maybe i should have made it more precise..

But, with your permission, I'd say I'll try out your approach and add it to the guide, advancing it to a "How to take on Capital Ships in a Fighter without missiles".

Deal?

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imperium3
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Post by imperium3 » Thu, 11. Feb 10, 02:54

Another thing that might be worth considering is that some of the heavier weapons can be treated as blindspots if you are in a fighter, and not too close. It's not too tricky to dodge PPC or IBL if you are maneouvrable enough. For M6s this is a different story of course, because you're a much larger target.
ImageImage

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Gazz
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Post by Gazz » Thu, 11. Feb 10, 13:14

That only works if the turret can only mount these heavy lasers.
All AI capital ships switch lasers depending on the target and range so in a fighter you wouldn't be evading PPC for long.
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Post by RyuKazuha » Thu, 11. Feb 10, 22:40

Did you avoid my question on purpose?

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Gazz
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Post by Gazz » Fri, 12. Feb 10, 13:46

What question?
Do you mean if I'll allow you to play the game and write up what you find? You have my sincerest permission to do so. =P
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Post by wizrd755 » Fri, 12. Feb 10, 21:57

RyuKazuha wrote:And if there is a way to take down an M2 with a Fighter, im quite sure I'll find it. :P Without rockets of course. However, i doubt this is possible, a M3 is generally to slow to evade enemy fire long enough (since none of the M2s seems to have a blind spot worth calling) and M4/M5 just don't bring the weapon power to do damage that isn't just absorbed be the shield recharge.
Pre X3TC v2.5, me and my Cutlass had 2 K, 4 J, and 6 Q kills. Takes a long time for the K, IIRC, I had to do 8-12 passes to take the K. I believe the Q was only 4 or 5 passes... They all melt away once you bust the shields..

I can't remember if I had just EMP's or M/AML's cause I can't remember if the Cutlass carries them, but for sure 100% did it with EMP.

Not there yet in my current 2.5 restart, but will be shortly.. :)

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