TD's Guide to the World of Solar Power Plants! -1.4 Update-

General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

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-TD-13-
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Post by -TD-13- » Sun, 15. Feb 04, 05:17

Dscaper wrote:The phrase "Horses for Courses" comes to mind. :)

There are three camps... one is the Wheat Farm Camp who believe that diversity reaps rewards, and all tho not as profitable as the other camps, it's diversity brings greater interest. The next group are the Energy Loopers who feel that the macro management and self-reliance methods are a long-term investment (of which I'm a believer), and there's the third camp who are the SPP'ers, that want to rake in money at the cost of diversity and they judge their game upon the number of digits in their balance. I won't include the pirate hunters in this, as they're a breed unto themselves. ;)

To me, that's quite clever of Egosoft, and they should be applauded for trying to provide a diverse system that allows the player to decide on the future they want.

Now we have to look at the context of this thread against the context of how people play the game.

What this thread is trying to do (and doing well) is explaining AN OPTION. Whether or not you (the reader) take this option and use it, is entirely up to you. What would be helpful is that if people wish to respond to threads that have taken a long time to produce, then they respond in a like way... make your opinions valuable and provide data. Just visually giving feedback may seem right, but by providing both practical AND theoretical reasoning as to why you believe an option to be open for further exploration.

The SPP is a proverbial can-o-worms. Study all the facts, figures, experiments, and maybe even try a few out.

I will say this tho... Wheat Farms ain't for me. Next thing I'd know I'd be wearing Hunter wellies and a Barbour jacket. :)

*goes to look for a sheepdog...*
Well said! :thumb_up: :D

There are three camps... one is the Wheat Farm Camp who believe that diversity reaps rewards, and all tho not as profitable as the other camps, it's diversity brings greater interest. The next group are the Energy Loopers who feel that the macro management and self-reliance methods are a long-term investment (of which I'm a believer), and there's the third camp who are the SPP'ers, that want to rake in money at the cost of diversity and they judge their game upon the number of digits in their balance. I won't include the pirate hunters in this, as they're a breed unto themselves. ;)

-------------

To me, that's quite clever of Egosoft, and they should be applauded for trying to provide a diverse system that allows the player to decide on the future they want.
Same here. :)
Now, if this economy was just fixed rightside up.... imagine what kind of diversity you'd have then! There would be hundreds of different kinds.... :D

*starts drooling on the keyboard*

-TD-13-
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Post by -TD-13- » Mon, 16. Feb 04, 01:23

*UPDATED*

A pure profit looping section and Akeela's beacon has been added to the list.

Tell me your thoughts on Pure Profit Loops. I've done the math for SPPs with them, and they just don't work out well.

Enjoy! :D

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TerrorTrooper
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Post by TerrorTrooper » Mon, 16. Feb 04, 01:34

Home Of Light was a good system for a SPP in my game, however, a corvette is neaded to guard the system as u do get some khaak problems

BFWibble
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Post by BFWibble » Mon, 16. Feb 04, 02:47

Kingdoms End, it’s an awesome suggestion as a SPP worthy system, Thanks! I wish I had built my first factory here, compared to Red Light Kingdoms End is a far easier SPP location. I’ve had a Solar Power Plant here for a few hours now and it’s turning over huge profits, there are tons of nearby factories who appreciate the energy and crystals are manufactured in almost every sector nearby. Furthermore you can easily setup a crystal factory with no need for the other two factories because there are tons of them nearby with full capacity selling cheap.

TD005013 has posted a great list of SPP worthy sectors but it would be really great if someone who has built in these sectors could rate each sector on Security, Potential Buyers and Availability of Crystals, it would really help with the costly decision of where to place the next factory, I’d then be able to go for the more dangerous ones last. So far I’d say Kingdoms End is a top sector. Here is my personal rating of the sectors I have built in so far:

Kingdoms End
Security - 10/10
Capital Ships are floating around the sector, and all nearby sectors seem very secure, there are no major danger sectors around.
Buyers – 10/10
No real competition for energy as the sector is light on Solar Power Plants, there are tons of structures nearby that eat up energy cells and there are many mines in the sector to the East and many Bio Gas Factories, they all use energy nice and quick.
Crystals – 10/10
There are trading stations in every nearby sector, many crystal factories and many crystal support factories like Silicon Mines and BoFu factories.
Overall – 10/10
This is an awesome sector, I wish this was my first choice for a SPP, I cannot think of a single negative factor.

Herron’s Nebula
Security - 8/10
At present there is a Colossus in this sector with me, when a cluster attacked the Colossus launched an array of Novas, which annihilated the Khaak, this is the only sector defence and it’s slow. If the Khaak spawns in the opposite end of the sector you can still get into trouble.
Buyers – 9/10
A nice range of buyers around, Argon Prime is just below and the nearby sectors seem to have a healthy need for energy.
Crystals – 8/10
Crystal industry is nearby and trading stations are in the nearby sectors, you need to manage the jump setting correctly or you can end up stealing crystals from your Red Light or Kingdoms End Solar Power Plants.
Overall – 8.3/10
No problems with this sector so far.

Red Light
Security – 6/10
Khaak are spawning occasionally, Red Light is fairly secure but I rate it low on security because Presidents End is nearby and Ore Belt is a danger.
Buyers – 8/10
Never had any problems selling crystals but many of the factories rely on other materials, they are normally short on these materials so they don’t use up energy until they get stocked up.
Crystals – 7/10
Crystals are not too bad but you cant set your maximum jump setting too high because your transports will enter Presidents End, I have been relying on the trading stations in the sectors next door.
Overall – 7/10
Your SPP will make lots of money here but you always need to keep an eye on the sector and make sure your ships don’t stray into Presidents End.

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ShaggyMoose
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Post by ShaggyMoose » Mon, 16. Feb 04, 04:41

The guide mentions that unless you set your buy price for cystals at 1684, that your transports on a buy order will ignore trading stations. This does not seem to be the case, at least for me. I have my maximum buy price set to 1700 (which seemed reasonable to me before I read the guide), and my transports will quite happily buy at a trading station with no problems. This is from a SPP in Herons Nebula.

Are there any particular circumstances in which this situation arises, or maybe it was fixed in 1.2? Either way, it definately works for me.

EDIT: Fixed buy price as pointed out by Silent Witness.
Last edited by ShaggyMoose on Mon, 16. Feb 04, 05:56, edited 1 time in total.
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silentWitness
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Post by silentWitness » Mon, 16. Feb 04, 04:46

ShaggyMoose wrote:I have my minimum buy price set to 1700
Shouldn't that be Maximum???

-TD-13-
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Post by -TD-13- » Mon, 16. Feb 04, 18:21

BFWibble wrote:Kingdoms End, it’s an awesome suggestion as a SPP worthy system, Thanks! I wish I had built my first factory here, compared to Red Light Kingdoms End is a far easier SPP location. I’ve had a Solar Power Plant here for a few hours now and it’s turning over huge profits, there are tons of nearby factories who appreciate the energy and crystals are manufactured in almost every sector nearby. Furthermore you can easily setup a crystal factory with no need for the other two factories because there are tons of them nearby with full capacity selling cheap.

TD005013 has posted a great list of SPP worthy sectors but it would be really great if someone who has built in these sectors could rate each sector on Security, Potential Buyers and Availability of Crystals, it would really help with the costly decision of where to place the next factory, I’d then be able to go for the more dangerous ones last. So far I’d say Kingdoms End is a top sector. Here is my personal rating of the sectors I have built in so far:

Kingdoms End
Security - 10/10
Capital Ships are floating around the sector, and all nearby sectors seem very secure, there are no major danger sectors around.
Buyers – 10/10
No real competition for energy as the sector is light on Solar Power Plants, there are tons of structures nearby that eat up energy cells and there are many mines in the sector to the East and many Bio Gas Factories, they all use energy nice and quick.
Crystals – 10/10
There are trading stations in every nearby sector, many crystal factories and many crystal support factories like Silicon Mines and BoFu factories.
Overall – 10/10
This is an awesome sector, I wish this was my first choice for a SPP, I cannot think of a single negative factor.

Herron’s Nebula
Security - 8/10
At present there is a Colossus in this sector with me, when a cluster attacked the Colossus launched an array of Novas, which annihilated the Khaak, this is the only sector defence and it’s slow. If the Khaak spawns in the opposite end of the sector you can still get into trouble.
Buyers – 9/10
A nice range of buyers around, Argon Prime is just below and the nearby sectors seem to have a healthy need for energy.
Crystals – 8/10
Crystal industry is nearby and trading stations are in the nearby sectors, you need to manage the jump setting correctly or you can end up stealing crystals from your Red Light or Kingdoms End Solar Power Plants.
Overall – 8.3/10
No problems with this sector so far.

Red Light
Security – 6/10
Khaak are spawning occasionally, Red Light is fairly secure but I rate it low on security because Presidents End is nearby and Ore Belt is a danger.
Buyers – 8/10
Never had any problems selling crystals but many of the factories rely on other materials, they are normally short on these materials so they don’t use up energy until they get stocked up.
Crystals – 7/10
Crystals are not too bad but you cant set your maximum jump setting too high because your transports will enter Presidents End, I have been relying on the trading stations in the sectors next door.
Overall – 7/10
Your SPP will make lots of money here but you always need to keep an eye on the sector and make sure your ships don’t stray into Presidents End.

:thumb_up: :thumb_up: :thumb_up: :thumb_up: :thumb_up:

Great idea! :D
A new section has been added to the guide that will now contain this information. (I've also given you credit for it in the original post as well :) )

If anyone would like to do ratings for other sectors, please follow BFWibble format. I will also add to the section time from time for other sectors.

Enjoy! :D

gerrythegremlin
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Post by gerrythegremlin » Mon, 16. Feb 04, 21:29

sounds like X2 is almost the total opposite of XTension where i had to set up a large part of my tactical and strategic thinking to cover the gaps left by spps that were always losing money!

is it actually possible to support any significant 'higher industry' using spp profits?
dis is der 'orrible old baldy geezer wiv da bump on is ed
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http://www.egosoft.com/x2/forum/viewtopic.php?t=31946
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-TD-13-
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Post by -TD-13- » Mon, 16. Feb 04, 23:21

gerry the gremlin wrote: is it actually possible to support any significant 'higher industry' using spp profits?
Nope. Not a single factory will benefit a whole deal from a SPP supporting it. High Tech is terrible. I think a 25 MW shield Fact will only make a max profit of 22,000 an hour.... thats with a supporting factory supplying it with energy at 9. :P Yet the cost can range in the couple of millions to set up....

arran
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Post by arran » Mon, 16. Feb 04, 23:27

Good post - heres another way to make great money.

For akeelas beacon I have 5 power plants, 3 crystal fabs, 2 cattle ranches and 3 bakerys. Every one of them makes great money. The ranches not so much, but are needed to support the the bakerys which in turn are needed by the crystal fabs.
I have 3 sellers for each power plant and one buyer. I have yet to see any power plant run out of energy. I dont care how much they sell for as long as they continually sell so that they high production of the sun isnt wasted.

re the comment about the ships visiting the same stations, they wont always - Stagger them to start with so that they dont all leave at the same time. Consider using ships of different speeds (I have 1 dolphin and 2 mercurys in each station).

Other things to consider - nail the oposition.
Use other races factories and dont allow anyone to land so that you sell for the highest price.

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Post by Mad Hatter » Mon, 16. Feb 04, 23:43

Want to know whats even worse?

The utterly flat profit situation seems to be hard coded as the backbone of the (non) economy.

As I've been working on modding an economy fix to allow more expensive factories to make higher profits, I've been confronted with the horrifying reality of the situation...

The 1:1 support ratio in the game is not between production:consumption like we all thought. Its between resource cost:consumption. :headbang:

So when you modify the TWareE file to make energy cells cost half as much - the universe automatically consumes twice as much. (While producing at the same rate.)

So while we all thought everything ran on 15 Energy Cells / min. The truth is that everything runs on 240 credits worth of energy / min.

Our supposedly capitalistic free market economy is all a big lie. Its an illusion of advancement masking government imposed equality. :roll:

Now. Lets all get back on our treadmills. The machine needs feeding.

:P

-TD-13-
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Post by -TD-13- » Tue, 17. Feb 04, 00:00

Mad Hatter wrote:Want to know whats even worse?

The utterly flat profit situation seems to be hard coded as the backbone of the (non) economy.

As I've been working on modding an economy fix to allow more expensive factories to make higher profits, I've been confronted with the horrifying reality of the situation...

The 1:1 support ratio in the game is not between production:consumption like we all thought. Its between resource cost:consumption. :headbang:

So when you modify the TWareE file to make energy cells cost half as much - the universe automatically consumes twice as much. (While producing at the same rate.)

So while we all thought everything ran on 15 Energy Cells / min. The truth is that everything runs on 240 credits worth of energy / min.

Our supposedly capitalistic free market economy is all a big lie. Its an illusion of advancement masking government imposed equality. :roll:

Now. Lets all get back on our treadmills. The machine needs feeding.

:P
:o
Wow.
:headbang:

Is there any way to "fix" it??

Mad Hatter
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Post by Mad Hatter » Tue, 17. Feb 04, 00:06

If someone can figure out how to change cycle time, production yield, max stock level, or price without affecting consumption - yes.

If not - it doesn't look good. The flaw is built right in.

They told us the trade commision imposed price controls.

What they didn't tell us was that the trade commission is owned by the GSPC.

:o


(Galactic Solar Power Commission)

wolfmaster1979
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Post by wolfmaster1979 » Wed, 18. Feb 04, 22:59

Dscaper wrote:The total cost is fairly scarey, but the profit calculates out like this:

In a 100% Sun sector, you get 276 energy units per 1:58 RW (Real World) minutes. That means for 1 RW Hour, you produce 30.5 x 276 units = 8418 units. At 9 credits, this returns 75,762 credits per RW Hour. Put SETA on at times ten, and you get 757,620 credits per RW Hour.

If you've got down a bit of protection in the sectors nearby, then you could ship-out the energy. On a sales average of 16 credits, you would be getting 134,688 credits, and 1,346,880 in 10 SETA per RW Hour.

In maximum mode, you could get a huge amount back... 23 credit sale would return 193,614 credits, and 1,936,140 in 10 SETA per RW hour.
Hey I just bought the game and started playing over the weekend and I got my SPP running very well, but I want to know how excally you did SETA for your SPP. (not familar with it) So can you tell me how to do it!!! PLEASEEEE!!! (maybe by step-by-step of how you did it??) Thanks

Nukester
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Post by Nukester » Thu, 19. Feb 04, 11:16

Hasn't anyone got ratings of other sectors apart from the 3 or 4 mentioned already?

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