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General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

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Teebor
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Post by Teebor » Fri, 1. May 09, 10:49

I just don't get how something like SETA would work within an multiplayer game

without it that game would be painful, with it the game would go out of sync

the SETA device give the pilot the feeling of accelerated time so everything outside his ship moves by faster allowing large amounts of time to be bypassed.

But to utilize something like that in a multiplayer game would mean everyone would have to be in seta at the same time? or one person can accelerate his game ahead of everyone elses meaning things won't be in the same place in two games?

confusing

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Post by Dragoongfa » Fri, 1. May 09, 11:28

frymaster wrote:
Kryten wrote:A non pvp server is basically a single player game with chat? why bother.
you could call left4dead a single player game with chat then :P
you'd still get economic competition, and you'd still get co-operating in epic khaak/xenon battles :D

having said that, never since i've been here has someone come up with decent solutions to the design challenges of putting the X games online and it still being the x universe... i don't think anyone's really solved the question of what happens to your property when you log off, especially in a PvP server. And, design challenges aside, the economic challenge (paying for development) is still a brick wall...
Now economic competition could be considered PvP :P.

Question: Does anyone need anyone else for killing Xenon/Kha'ak/Boron?

EDIT: I will have to agree with Kryten, I don't feel the need to play multiplayer in the X verse, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't try it and maybe like it but all things considered I play X in order to become the biggest mogul/pirate/hero that I can.

Also saying that griefers can be avoided is ridiculous as a statement, being an admin in my clan's L4D servers I can say that griefers are like roaches, for every one you ban there are always two to take his place and that's on a game that awards cooperation (more or less), on a game that its moto is 'do as you like' griefing will become a rule not an exception.
Last edited by Dragoongfa on Fri, 1. May 09, 11:35, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Paranoid66 » Fri, 1. May 09, 11:32

Like so many people have said before and I have said before it simply would not be X if it was MP. A limited MP option on the side might be fun but again it would not be like X except maybe in the most limited sense.

X is very much a - single player game - that is a simple fact and the core essence of the nature of what makes it what it is. Am I getting anywhere with this. This is not rocket science this is a single player space game. :)
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Post by delray » Fri, 1. May 09, 13:51

Do you really have to write such a long post on that? :-)

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Post by gammacee » Fri, 1. May 09, 14:10

I'm afraid that Eladan gave the most 'viable' reason for X3 having no multiplayer function. It all comes down to money.

The two options most often suggested are:
1: Multiplayer LAN
2: MMORPG

Imagine presenting option 1 to the boss: Let's spend months(years?) developing a LAN version. Let's test it and market it.
And then.... Well.... then....
Does it generate enough extra sales? Can we sell the game at a higher price?
Unfortunately, the number of extra customers is just too small to support the extra development cost. The likelyhood is the same people who are already buying the game will do so, but they will just get the extra benefit of multiplayer. Egosoft will get very little in return. As Eladan says, Egosof will have done their sums.

So option 2 then.
Nobody doubts that this is capable of generating a massive return. World of Warcraft is a good example of what can be done. But, take a look at what X is. It is not as straightforward as WOW. There are technical challenges. Some of these are big. But more importantly, some would require fundamental changes to the way the game is played. So now try and sell option 2:
Let's spend a small fortune (and it would have to be) developing MMORPGX. It's not X, but it's 'sort of similar' to X. Let's test it etc... Then let's release it and... see who want's to play this 'different' game.
And there lies the problem, the risk is too great for most business minds to accept.
I'm sure that there are a lot of people on this forum who would like to try MMORPGX (I'm one of them, though I'm not sure that I would find it better than plain X). But I'm not sure that there are enough to justify such a risk... And games publishers have to be 'sure' before they start to spend.

That is not to say that MMORPGX is not possible. I would imagine that if anyone here had about £10 million (a guess!) to invest and likes the idea, then Egosoft will listen (and I would think very carefully) to whatever they have to say. I will buy the game once it's done (so that's £20 for a start! :) )

Like all of these posts, it's a good idea. But that is not always enough...

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Post by amacdonald » Fri, 1. May 09, 14:16

I like multiplayer support in games but only in the right games and X games are not right for it. It would be possible to take some elements of the X games and make a great multiplayer experience but too many of the things that make the universe great would have to be dropped and it's the immersiveness of the game that hooks me.

I can tolerate prepubesents shouting and messing about in online racing or shooting games but they don't have a place in an X game.

Try a 4 hour session in a starting ship without using SETA. Slow-paced is hardly the word.
Last edited by amacdonald on Fri, 1. May 09, 15:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Cycrow » Fri, 1. May 09, 14:25

Mikro39 wrote:So I am not yet hear a viable reason. I'm hear personal grievances and complaints about multiplaying games, not about reasons for not having it aside from the 'target audience' comment, and even that can be proven with a poll of "if multiplayer was added, who wouldn't buy an 'X' game?"
u seem to be completly ignoring the main reason for not having multiplayer, and that is the money.

you also say a poll would prove your point, but most polls that have been on this subject would reflect that most ppl would prefer a single game.

alot of ppl would like some kind of multiplayer, but not at the expensive of thier single player experience

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Post by kreep69 » Fri, 1. May 09, 15:56

Kryten wrote:So you don't want to hear the truth about what makes X so special :?: My only gripe about X games is that there's no 360 or PS3 version so I could enjoy it on my 50" HDTV :(
So why aren't you playing X on your HDTV? :)

Get a DVI to HDTV cable and hook your PC up to your HDTV. If its a good TV (and a semi-decent PC) you should be able to run at 1920x1200.

Newer vid cards also have a small cable that will take sound and route it through the HDTV cable too so basically you need one cable for full video in HD and audio.

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Post by Chealec » Fri, 1. May 09, 21:19

kreep69 wrote:
Kryten wrote:... My only gripe about X games is that there's no 360 or PS3 version so I could enjoy it on my 50" HDTV :(
So why aren't you playing X on your HDTV? :)

Get a DVI to HDTV cable and hook your PC up to your HDTV. If its a good TV (and a semi-decent PC) you should be able to run at 1920x1200.
...
Actually, come to think of it, my Bravia has a PC input channel!
Hmmm, actually, it's not worth the domestic TV warfare, herself would kill me... CSI, NCIS or X3, erm - I think I'd loose that one :roll:


To turn this thread on it's head however - I've yet to see one viable reason as to why X3 SHOULD have multiplayer.

Basically the X3 codebase is not geared towards multiplay - you couldn't realistically bolt on the net or server load balancing code - and even if you could that would be an entirely non-trivial undertaking. It would also have far-reaching consequences on other aspects of the game. The script engine and mission director (as examples) may need quite a considerable amount of work to identify 'player' on the server rather than just a local, single-instance of 'player' you now have multiple instances of 'player' each with their own specific instantiation differences.

I suspect - having had a fair bit of experience building things on top of existing codebases - that it would probably be easier to start from scratch, with an entirely new engine/game than it would be to add multiplayer functionality to the existing X3 engine.

If you want a twitch-play space MMO then Jumpgate Evolution is on the way, if you want an empire building LAN/WAN game, I'm sure Civ 4 is mutliplayer.




Edit:
My gripe is this I guess. People who have very little understanding of what they're asking fail to understand the difficulties involved in making it happen. As a former-employer of mine always used to say "I don't really care, just make it so"... and then she would ask me why it was taking so long. Of course, she wasn't interested in hearing the explanation.

It wasn't really her fault; it wasn't her job to be interested in the technical details and at the time I couldn't find a way to say "yes, I can do what you're asking, but it'll take at least 4 months development time and maybe another month alpha-testing before we can go to public beta" - if I'd managed that we'd have found a decent middle-ground.

So whenever someone says something like "X3 MUST be multiplayer" - I tend to think of my old boss and "make it so" (no, she never did do the Picard pointy-thing when she said it either). If you truly understood what it was that you were demanding - you might not be demanding it.
Last edited by Chealec on Fri, 1. May 09, 21:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by maphys » Fri, 1. May 09, 21:26

Gazz? Gaaaazzzzz? They are doing it again Gazz! Time to update the X-MP thread. Haven't seen anything new in this one. Just more Freelancer comparisons and so on.

I'm thinking we need a time series analysis of these - are they influenced by the phases of the moon? There has to be some explanation for why people keep saying "I haven't read all the other threads entirely but I am sure no one has thought this through like I have". Maybe there has been a chemical spill into a major water source or something? Anyone know the percolation time for granite?

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Post by Stars_InTheirEyes » Fri, 1. May 09, 21:30

NOOOO

why, oh why is there another MP suggestion...
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Post by Saber15 » Fri, 1. May 09, 21:46

X3 isn't big enough (money and player base wise) to warrant Egosoft spending monies on developing multiplayer.

I'd still love 2-4 player coop though. :)

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Post by Kryten » Fri, 1. May 09, 21:49

kreep69 wrote:
Kryten wrote:
... My only gripe about X games is that there's no 360 or PS3 version so I could enjoy it on my 50" HDTV


So why aren't you playing X on your HDTV?

Get a DVI to HDTV cable and hook your PC up to your HDTV. If its a good TV (and a semi-decent PC) you should be able to run at 1920x1200.
...


Actually, come to think of it, my Bravia has a PC input channel!
Hmmm, actually, it's not worth the domestic TV warfare, herself would kill me
There is that and the fact that my computer is too far away for my cable to reach the tv and putting them together just isn't going to happen. I have played a few games on it and its just mouth watering :D Sometimes I'll play x2 on my laptop and hook it up to the TV, great except the sound comming from my laptap is pants :lol:
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Post by Chealec » Fri, 1. May 09, 21:59

Three words... home cinema system.

I've decided I needs one, my preciousssss...
I was watching the trailer for "The Hunt for Gollum" fan movie (http://www.thehuntforgollum.com/) on my PC yesterday. Oki, fine. Now my PC outputs to a slightly old, but fairly good quality, hi-fi system - with awesome base and decent surround sound.

Watching that trailer made me realise just HOW much a decent sound system adds to watching a film - you'd think I'd have clocked that from going to the cinema, but they're special ;) It was only when watching something, less than DVD quality, on my PC that it clicked that I could have THAT sound quality, in my living room whilst watching HD movies on a BIG TV (oki - not as big as your TV but much bigger than my 19" monitor)
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Post by Deadbeat_Spinn » Fri, 1. May 09, 22:14

Oh god not this topic AGAIN. If people think it's so simple to turn X into an MP game they should try doing the scripts and coding themselves and then let us know how it turns out.

About X not being on a console system, given the fact on how many keys are used on the keyboard for various functions I would think a console controller would be hard pressed to keep up (though I'm sure you can get a keyboard/mouse setup for a console). But in space sim type game, like X or the old X-Wing/Tie Fighter series I refuse to use anything other than a joystick for flying (call me old if you wish). Using a gamepad just doesn't feel right to me, though if it's a race sim like Gran Turismo or NFS then short using a wheel/pedal attachment then I will use a gamepad. On another note I'm sure a lot of console players wanted Crysis to be ported as well, but this is going off topic.
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