The X3 Online / Multiplayer FAQ
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I've been playing EVE online since 2003.
this month I cancelled my subscription for the first time.
EVE started as a industrial game with the possibility of PvP.
of course, pirates have always been a part of the game.
but most people started by joining a mining corp.
in a mining corp you would mine asteroidfields for ore.
in a refinery you can get the minerals from the ore.
with a blueprint and minerals you can build ship/modules.
over the years the industrial part of the game withered.
I know I became older too, but the average age of players went down.
the commercials from CCP where all about PvP.
so EVE has become a griefing experience.
if you're not looking over your shoulder all the time, you'll regret it.
losing a ship in EVE is as expensive as losing one in X.
the difference is that you can't load a previous savegame.
so, if griefing, scamming, backstabbing and being a general AH is your thing.
then EVE is good for you.
don't get me wrong; EVE online is a fantastic game.
it's depths are truly incredible.
it may be so that the universe has become overcrowded.
X has quite a mature playersbase.
once you can blow up ships online, that'll change.
solo play FTW.
and btw, no, you can't have my EVE online stuff.....
this month I cancelled my subscription for the first time.
EVE started as a industrial game with the possibility of PvP.
of course, pirates have always been a part of the game.
but most people started by joining a mining corp.
in a mining corp you would mine asteroidfields for ore.
in a refinery you can get the minerals from the ore.
with a blueprint and minerals you can build ship/modules.
over the years the industrial part of the game withered.
I know I became older too, but the average age of players went down.
the commercials from CCP where all about PvP.
so EVE has become a griefing experience.
if you're not looking over your shoulder all the time, you'll regret it.
losing a ship in EVE is as expensive as losing one in X.
the difference is that you can't load a previous savegame.
so, if griefing, scamming, backstabbing and being a general AH is your thing.
then EVE is good for you.
don't get me wrong; EVE online is a fantastic game.
it's depths are truly incredible.
it may be so that the universe has become overcrowded.
X has quite a mature playersbase.
once you can blow up ships online, that'll change.
solo play FTW.
and btw, no, you can't have my EVE online stuff.....
I think small networked games would be great in X. Perhaps make a massive online database for all users that play that periodically get updated with their version on the X universe or perhaps make the X universe be truly random.
Then add random events or wormholes that you can enter someone else's game world. And if two people agree open a gate system between the universes and traverse into each others worlds when both players are online or perhaps opt for continuing the game in both worlds with only one player online only if agreed.
Make multiplayer missions where you can invite someone into your game world to have epic battles, then make them disappear after you are done.
I don't really see this type of online experience hurting anyone's game, would only make it a better experience.
Add to the fact it would make the game more attractive to potential pirates.
Then add random events or wormholes that you can enter someone else's game world. And if two people agree open a gate system between the universes and traverse into each others worlds when both players are online or perhaps opt for continuing the game in both worlds with only one player online only if agreed.
Make multiplayer missions where you can invite someone into your game world to have epic battles, then make them disappear after you are done.
I don't really see this type of online experience hurting anyone's game, would only make it a better experience.
Add to the fact it would make the game more attractive to potential pirates.
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I kinda like this idea--I would want to play with my IRL friends, or people I knew really well, but A. Random Gamer, or a server full of them, isn't my cup of tea...edwardecl wrote:I think small networked games would be great in X. Perhaps make a massive online database for all users that play that periodically get updated with their version on the X universe or perhaps make the X universe be truly random.
Then add random events or wormholes that you can enter someone else's game world. And if two people agree open a gate system between the universes and traverse into each others worlds when both players are online or perhaps opt for continuing the game in both worlds with only one player online only if agreed.
Make multiplayer missions where you can invite someone into your game world to have epic battles, then make them disappear after you are done.
I don't really see this type of online experience hurting anyone's game, would only make it a better experience.
Add to the fact it would make the game more attractive to potential pirates.
Argon Explorer
Sorry, the DevNet IDea forum is down, so - because it is MP related - here it goes:
Tldr, but this is my 2 cents w.r.t. online X game, and sorry if this has been mentioned here before (like I said, tldr).
If you play Anno series from Related Design (a German game dev, mind you), it is a single player game with a touch on MP that does not work very well, because of the long time it takes to complete a game, and other network issue.
Recently, they have developped a Conquest/Domination mode (currently in Open Beta), where 2 teams will compete against each other on a "map"/"card". A map is a set of a few missions, each mission is a game in itself (the equivalent to X's game start). Each mission is a mini-game, and each has an objective (e.g. population, cash balance, rate of cash increase, etc...). Each mission has a save game, saved on the server. Member of each team have access to all the save game/missions, but only one player can play in a mission. When he quits the game, the mission save is automatically saved on the server.
I would think that something along those line can be developped as a MP add on to X3TC/AP as follows:
A game consists of a few missions linked in a map. A mission is an X "game start", and consists of a X-map with a few sectors. Each mission will have its objectives, say attain ranks with the Boron (you start at the bottom). Each rank increase is worth 1 pt. Another objective can be the number of ships. Say you score 1 pt for the team if you cap an M5, 2 pt for an M4, etc.... Yet another objective is the number of kills etc.....
In the game map which is a grid of several missions, you have to control one mission in order to have access to the next mission on the grid. At the expiration date and time, the team with the higher score wins the game. The game can last somewhere between a few days to 20 days etc... Each day, each player is allocated a few hours of play, and time on SETA is accounted (i.e. if you have 1 hour left to play, a SETA at 10X will kick you out of your daily allocation after 6 mins).
The server host maintains a "ladder" of points scored by each player.
So basically, it is still a single player game, and can reuse the same X3 engine, but the team sharing concept add an additional dimension that makes the game into a challenging MP game.
if Rebirth does not come out this year (Ducking tomatoes thrown at me), this may be the X3MP game that we can play while waiting for XR
Tldr, but this is my 2 cents w.r.t. online X game, and sorry if this has been mentioned here before (like I said, tldr).
If you play Anno series from Related Design (a German game dev, mind you), it is a single player game with a touch on MP that does not work very well, because of the long time it takes to complete a game, and other network issue.
Recently, they have developped a Conquest/Domination mode (currently in Open Beta), where 2 teams will compete against each other on a "map"/"card". A map is a set of a few missions, each mission is a game in itself (the equivalent to X's game start). Each mission is a mini-game, and each has an objective (e.g. population, cash balance, rate of cash increase, etc...). Each mission has a save game, saved on the server. Member of each team have access to all the save game/missions, but only one player can play in a mission. When he quits the game, the mission save is automatically saved on the server.
I would think that something along those line can be developped as a MP add on to X3TC/AP as follows:
A game consists of a few missions linked in a map. A mission is an X "game start", and consists of a X-map with a few sectors. Each mission will have its objectives, say attain ranks with the Boron (you start at the bottom). Each rank increase is worth 1 pt. Another objective can be the number of ships. Say you score 1 pt for the team if you cap an M5, 2 pt for an M4, etc.... Yet another objective is the number of kills etc.....
In the game map which is a grid of several missions, you have to control one mission in order to have access to the next mission on the grid. At the expiration date and time, the team with the higher score wins the game. The game can last somewhere between a few days to 20 days etc... Each day, each player is allocated a few hours of play, and time on SETA is accounted (i.e. if you have 1 hour left to play, a SETA at 10X will kick you out of your daily allocation after 6 mins).
The server host maintains a "ladder" of points scored by each player.
So basically, it is still a single player game, and can reuse the same X3 engine, but the team sharing concept add an additional dimension that makes the game into a challenging MP game.
if Rebirth does not come out this year (Ducking tomatoes thrown at me), this may be the X3MP game that we can play while waiting for XR
Since X games are based on power over time how would a casual player end up against those that can spent 100 hrs a month.
Defining PVP sectors simply adds a sense of restrictions which removes the feeling of freedom like you have in X games. For sure, your hard earned shiny ships will get blowned by blobs of ships the minute you leave your secure space.
They will be tempted to add corps and alliances from which you will have to play by the rules, engagements and dedictations of the alliance which again go opposite of the freedom they want us to experience in X games.
So definitely a no go for me. I left Eve-Online after 2-3 years of casual playing and returning to X games which suits more my needs.
Long live X games.
Defining PVP sectors simply adds a sense of restrictions which removes the feeling of freedom like you have in X games. For sure, your hard earned shiny ships will get blowned by blobs of ships the minute you leave your secure space.
They will be tempted to add corps and alliances from which you will have to play by the rules, engagements and dedictations of the alliance which again go opposite of the freedom they want us to experience in X games.
So definitely a no go for me. I left Eve-Online after 2-3 years of casual playing and returning to X games which suits more my needs.
Long live X games.
- RedEclipse
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Eve Online and X are really different games.
People keep comparing them because they are the two best space games since a long time, and these two are deeper than the space itself.
In term of ship equipement and industry Eve has no rival, they had very good and very deep ideas.
Anyway, to stay on topic, the best idea I had about multiplayer in X was a... chat. Only an integrated chat within X, where you can ask thing, tell how you play and maybe propose missions to other players. Something like that.
I had that idea for X3 when I was playing X2 back in 2007 maybe.
People keep comparing them because they are the two best space games since a long time, and these two are deeper than the space itself.
In term of ship equipement and industry Eve has no rival, they had very good and very deep ideas.
Anyway, to stay on topic, the best idea I had about multiplayer in X was a... chat. Only an integrated chat within X, where you can ask thing, tell how you play and maybe propose missions to other players. Something like that.
I had that idea for X3 when I was playing X2 back in 2007 maybe.
"AaaAaaAah ! They're everywhere...", Jane Doe, Freedom Force.
I think a good way to incorporate network play would be to have the individual that is first player be the influential player to the story line, so you would be playing on his save game. Then when you want to play with somebody they can join as a pilot since there are no skill based points aside from your weapons load out and quantity of ships and stations.
It requires nothing but to add a player control to the secondary ships, I don't see any reason why that would break the game as it is right now. I like the game the way it is I just want to have more intelligent wingman is that too much to ask for
You could maybe limit it to main player plus 4 others which can be pilots or turret controllers on capitol ships. I think thats all this game needs anymore and you start getting into more mmo territory and there is no need for that with this game. It would just be cool to be able to share the adventure with a few friends
It requires nothing but to add a player control to the secondary ships, I don't see any reason why that would break the game as it is right now. I like the game the way it is I just want to have more intelligent wingman is that too much to ask for
You could maybe limit it to main player plus 4 others which can be pilots or turret controllers on capitol ships. I think thats all this game needs anymore and you start getting into more mmo territory and there is no need for that with this game. It would just be cool to be able to share the adventure with a few friends
have any moderators seen this link yet http://www.online-universe.net/44index.htm or for that matter any players?
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With any multiplayer experience you won't be able to build factories just anywhere. What would work is if each player had a home sector that only they could use, build factories in etc but be restricted in what ships they could just send out since otherwise you'd end up with a load of UTs everywhere, and with some IS and some OOS depending on where the players are it would confuse the hell out of the game. The home sector could be used as a sort of gateway between the player's own universe and the online one, with the option of 'freezing' what's going on back home while you're online, where the player can only have ships in one sector at a time
Managing AI fleets is hard enough already, players would be limited in bringing a set number of ships IS, with the rest sitting at home- you can't send combat ships anywhere OOS since you immediately hit problems with syncing IS and OOS combat (and is pointless in multiplayer anyway). OOS would have to be completely reworked since the map would be a representation of something that's IS to another player's perspective, rather than generated by the player's own PC.
In short, you can have a multiplayer experience, you just won't be able to build an empire online.
Managing AI fleets is hard enough already, players would be limited in bringing a set number of ships IS, with the rest sitting at home- you can't send combat ships anywhere OOS since you immediately hit problems with syncing IS and OOS combat (and is pointless in multiplayer anyway). OOS would have to be completely reworked since the map would be a representation of something that's IS to another player's perspective, rather than generated by the player's own PC.
In short, you can have a multiplayer experience, you just won't be able to build an empire online.
That's not strictly true. Admittedly the site has not been updated for 10 years or so, but the aspiration behind it remains. It was never a major active development project as such, but occasional pieces of exploratory work continue to be done from time to time.Alan Phipps wrote:... and withered and died a long time ago too.
You realize that if this ever becomes reality, your fans will give you vast amounts of wealth, lovely ladies will swoon at your feet, worshipers will sacrifice small stuffed animals in your name and your car will always be magically washed and waxed while you're at work, don't you?CBJ wrote:That's not strictly true. Admittedly the site has not been updated for 10 years or so, but the aspiration behind it remains. It was never a major active development project as such, but occasional pieces of exploratory work continue to be done from time to time.Alan Phipps wrote:... and withered and died a long time ago too.
Oh, and pizza... You will never want for pizza again.
I understand it's a dead horse issue that gets beat upon anytime this thread makes it to the first page, but I have to say that one mustn't ever stop working towards one's dreams. If you continue to dabble in it, from time to time, that's fine - It tells me you're in a company that desires to do hard work in pursuit of a dream. It doesn't get better than that.
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The reason I ask is, I have re-purposed the Universe Map XML to be semantically accessible. This was so that I could create an XML database to create a HTML 5 map (here).
I haven't optimised the database yet (no indices), but it's a pure XML database (this one), so the xml in the AJAX responses are what's in the database or a subset thereof. I don't, for example, load the station data for displaying the galaxy map. Again, I need to implement indices, but I was just building myself a system to allow myself check where's a good place to put a new complex.
It would be possible to turn this XML into a basis for an MMO, but I haven't given it much serious consideration because doing so and hosting it at all could be viewed as a breach of copyright. In fact, I'm on sort of shaky ground with the map at all. I should probably have a disclaimer or ten to say "I'm not trying to steal egosoft's work".
I haven't optimised the database yet (no indices), but it's a pure XML database (this one), so the xml in the AJAX responses are what's in the database or a subset thereof. I don't, for example, load the station data for displaying the galaxy map. Again, I need to implement indices, but I was just building myself a system to allow myself check where's a good place to put a new complex.
It would be possible to turn this XML into a basis for an MMO, but I haven't given it much serious consideration because doing so and hosting it at all could be viewed as a breach of copyright. In fact, I'm on sort of shaky ground with the map at all. I should probably have a disclaimer or ten to say "I'm not trying to steal egosoft's work".
As an interactive map,this one looks interesting.to create a HTML 5 map...
There is of course Scorp's map, and at least one other interactive map available.(thinking Roguey here).
There may be others.
I have tried online gaming with other players...not the x one mentioned above.
Not sure they are for me.
If you want to discuss what you can and can't do with someone then you'll need to email Bernd directly. He's usually quite supportive of not-for-profit projects provided they are done with permission. The X-OA project team, for example, were provided with their own forum on this site to help them organise and publicise what they were working on.akari no ryu wrote:It would be possible to turn this XML into a basis for an MMO, but I haven't given it much serious consideration because doing so and hosting it at all could be viewed as a breach of copyright. In fact, I'm on sort of shaky ground with the map at all. I should probably have a disclaimer or ten to say "I'm not trying to steal egosoft's work".