:X3: Online Complex Calculator version 2.5.5

General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

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fiksal
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Post by fiksal » Mon, 14. Jan 08, 22:07

em3e3 wrote:@fiskal, exo - no dime, no quarter! I'll spend eternity trying to fix it...oh nevermind, the US dollar is so low, I might as well get rid of my change now! :P
again with the misspelling, you owe me another :roll:

...and Canadian please :D
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em3e3
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Post by em3e3 » Tue, 15. Jan 08, 00:20

D'oh! I feel duh'm now! Sorry fiksal!

Okay, I think the formula was correct, just some javascript 'type' problems (it was treating numbers as text, stupid JS). Try it out...
8^)

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Skoll
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Post by Skoll » Tue, 15. Jan 08, 23:50

The Total Complex Cost (TCC) is being computed by concatenating the Total Station cost and Ancillary Cost (AC). I'm guessing the + operator is doing a concatenate when the operands are strings? As a result the TCC is at least off by a factor of 10 even when AC is 0.

Also I think changing the AC is not triggering a recomputation of the TCC. You have to go change some other field like a buy/sell price or station quantity.

Otherwise this is coming along nicely.

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em3e3
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Post by em3e3 » Wed, 16. Jan 08, 00:21

Yep, more Javascript type problems. I even had the addition enclosed in an eval statement! Okay, revision 1.5.1 is working now. Thanks skoll!
8^)

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Skoll
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Post by Skoll » Sat, 19. Jan 08, 06:32

Did you change something on the calculator? I haven't used it in a day or two, but tonight I notice that I can't set the buy/sell prices for my goods to the full range from min to max. For example if I create a Silicon L Argon and then set the buy price for energy to 17 it says that 16 is the max. The hover still correctly says the max is 20.

Next if I add a Crystal Fab M Argon and try to set the buy Meatsteak price to 74 it says the MAXIMUM price is 76 (HIGHER than what I had) and changes the value to 76?!?!

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em3e3
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Post by em3e3 » Sat, 19. Jan 08, 07:26

As a matter of fact, I did make one more change. I set the error checking for the buy and sell prices to include keeping the buy price from being higher than the selling price, and vice versa. And again, it's a Javascript 'typing' problem that is causing the bugs. Give it another go, and again, thanks!
8^)

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superrob
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Post by superrob » Sat, 19. Jan 08, 07:28

:o

Wow... this is AMAZING... Far better than anything I could have done... However, I still have a few qualms.

1) the "Leak" button appears to assume that we'll sell all of the materials, rather than (amount needed) - (amount created). IN this case, I sell restar oil using a single transport from a large rastar refinery selling to a small thunderbolt factory. I cant' sell EVERYTHING or i'll need to buy them back. Its a simple change, (or so it seems) but it would provide more realistic, profit margins.

2) 18 is really too low for some of the factories we create. I've got maybe 20 factories in my complex, and no signs of stopping. Therefore, I would suggest adding more entry lines, to an unknowable length, give us an "add 5 entries" option, which would give us the ability to have a short list for those of us with a few stations while those of us with massive factory complexes will be able to compute them in their entirety.

I have a slim idea of how this would work, but i'll save myself the typing of something unless you need help.
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em3e3
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Post by em3e3 » Sat, 19. Jan 08, 07:35

1. Leak is almost a throwback to the X2 days, when there was no such thing as a complex. Basic concept is, even if you can produce a resource 'for free', if you can sell to the NPC at above average, and then buy what you need at below average price, you are helping the 'verse economy, and improving your profits. So 'leak' is designed to sell all of that ware that you produce, and then buy what your factories require.

If you leave it unchecked, the formula automatically includes the profit made by selling excess, and the loss taken by buying a ware in shortage.

2. I really have wanted to do this for awhile, I just don't know if it will mess the scripting up. It's fairly easy to add/remove table rows, but I just don't want it to break my calculations. Excellent suggestion, though, I'll work at it (and I'm still working on fiksal's request for import/export).
8^)

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em3e3
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Post by em3e3 » Sun, 27. Jan 08, 23:44

New Feature Added: 'Add Row' button
When clicking this button, a new row will be added at the bottom of the factory list table. You can use the drop-down menus in the new row just like in the other rows, and you should be able to create as many new rows as you need. Just make sure the version at the bottom of the page is at least 1.6.0


Still pending: import/export feature
I am considering setting up this feature through cookies, but it will only allow a previously configured set of factories to be recalled. Probably not what fiksal was hoping for, but it still may be useful.
8^)

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Terre
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Post by Terre » Mon, 28. Jan 08, 00:47

em3e3 wrote:I'd be willing to use a lookup table (actually a Javascript array) instead of the formula, if it was more accurate and available. I have found a few tables in the forum, but they still seem to be based on the same formula. I'm curious how egosoft does it ingame; lookup or calc?
May be this will help with asteriod yields and their production times.

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... eild+yield
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em3e3
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Post by em3e3 » Mon, 28. Jan 08, 01:29

Terre Crimson wrote: May be this will help with asteriod yields and their production times.

http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... eild+yield
Yep, that table is based on the well-known formula I'm already using. So unless someone tries putting mines on every yield type asteriod, I'll have to still to the formula for now. It actually looks like it might be less accurate as the yield size gets bigger (120-125 all have the same cycletime).
8^)

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zazie
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Post by zazie » Mon, 28. Jan 08, 14:14

Great Tool ! :thumb_up:
Observations:
- The "Clear All"-Button does not clear the "Ancillary cost"-field. Essential.
- I suggest you add some (additional) explanation on p.1 that the "Leak"-box should be activated for getting the correct figures if planning to sell high tech products partially or completely to the AI.
As an example: a 5 Boron PBE-Forge-complex (with 1 L BoGas/BoFU, EC and Ore bought at minimal prize) the calculator returns "never" :o as Breakeven and 5d11h-something if Leak is activated :wink:

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em3e3
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Post by em3e3 » Mon, 28. Jan 08, 19:06

Clear all - I've been changing it on my test version, I'll add the reset to the 'Ancillary Cost' field also.

And I did find a small issue when testing your configuration. If I check the 'Beta PBE' radio button in the End Product section, and then click 'None', the numbers don't get recalculated. I'll have to check on that.

Keep in mind that by default, the formula will calculate the profit from selling *any* excess, and the loss from buying *any* shortage. Since the Beta PBE is not used up, the complete amount is sold, if, and only if you don't select it as an end product. In this case, 'End Product' means you plan on using that item, and not selling it to the NPC.

The only way I could get the Breakeven field to say 'Never' is when I checked the bPBE as the end product. So that means that if you only have bPBE, BioGas and BoFu factories producing bPBEs for your own use, the complex can never breakeven, since you are not actually selling anything. On top of that, since you are buying energy and ore, it will always cost more to produce the bPBEs than it would to buy them.

However, if you 'leak' the BioGas and Bofu (sell what you produce, buy what you need), you will make a profit there, that will slightly offset the cost to acquire ore and energy, and allow you to make the bPBEs for just under what you can buy them for (assuming you buy from factories that one less than maximum).

Add an L ore mine on a 25 yield 'roid, and an 'L' sized Boron SPP, and you'll be able to produce the bPBEs for even less. And since you'll have more products to sell, the complex will actually breakeven after 30 days!
8^)

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em3e3
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Post by em3e3 » Mon, 28. Jan 08, 22:31

Okay, the 'Clear All' button is working much better. It clears the individual factory cost, as well as the Ancillary Costs (thanks zazie!).

Also, I made a usability improvement. If you select a factory that is only available from one race, that race will automatically be selected. Likewise, if you select a factory that only has 1 size available from that race, that size will automatically be selected.

I also made a change to the 'End Product' section and the 'Leak' checkbox for that product. I noticed that if an End Product was selected, and then Leak was checked for that product, the script would show the profit made by selling that product. That was an unintended result, and could cause some confusion. So now, if you try to click Leak for a product you already have selected as an End Product, the Leak box will stay unchecked, and no profit from that product will be calculated.

Leak still seems to be confusing people, but think of it as selecting 'Buy & Sell' intermediate resources in the complex.

Newest version is now 1.6.2
8^)

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Nulric
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Post by Nulric » Mon, 28. Jan 08, 23:29

VERY nice. I like it aloooot. Its clean, and pretty self explanatory. I havent had the time to click around alot, so I havent broken it yet for ya, but my first impression is that its extremely nice, and thanks a TON for setting it up.

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Post by zazie » Wed, 30. Jan 08, 12:46

Thanks for the extensive feedback. I probably have another 'concept' therefore another way of using your calculator: self-sufficient complexes are the exception. To boost/keep up the AI-economy my complexes use wares from AI-factories: either I get it with my ships or I let the NPC-freighters bring it in (prices set to 'attractive' levels).

For testing such 'not-profit-maximized complexes' your tool is excellent: all changes show immediate results. But of course, the ROI-calculation based on the price of end products is essential. In such complexes there are hardly ever some ressources or intermediate products left for selling it to the AI.

edit: oh, and btw :) would it be possible to adapt your tool to e.g. XTM ? The X-tended-version of the online calculator ? Not demanding, just asking.

If you don't know XTM: same economy, larger data-base and additional sizes like Crystal L fabs (Boron) and some 'exotic' shield- and weapon-fabs.
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supakillaii
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Post by supakillaii » Wed, 30. Jan 08, 15:17

About the Buy&Sell parts: Wich is wich. I mean wich is the price you sell to them and wich is they price they sell to you?

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em3e3
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Post by em3e3 » Wed, 30. Jan 08, 17:02

@supakillaii - 'Buy' price is the price you pay for products from the NPC, 'Sell' is the price you sell to the 'NPC'

@zazie - the OCC should be accurate whether you have a self-sufficient complex (SSC) that just produces end products, an SSC that sells and buys intermediate wares, or a complex that buys needed resources and sells end products. The ROI calculation takes into account not only the price you sell the end products for, but also the cost of acquiring resources.

In your previous example, 5 Boron bPBE factories and 1 each BioGas L & BoFu L, buying energy at 12 and ore at 50, profit per hour from selling the bPBEs at average price is 790,774. Loss per hour is 213,000. Net profit is then 577,774 per hour. Let's assume you add a freighter for 500,000, and 6 complex construction kits. Total Complex Cost is 78,082,072. Divide that by net profit per hour, 577,774, and you get just over 135 hours, which is just over 5 1/2 days. This is assuming you don't sell anything but the end product. Is this not correct?

I think the 'Leak' is still causing confusion. Don't click it unless you want the calculator to figure in the profit and loss from trading 'intermediate resources'.
8^)

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supakillaii
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Post by supakillaii » Wed, 30. Jan 08, 17:03

Ok, thanks for clearing that up

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Zero Tolerance
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Opera doesn't work

Post by Zero Tolerance » Sun, 23. Mar 08, 08:15

Hello everybody.

Very nice this calculator.

However it doesn't work right with opera (V9.24 - XP 32bit pro).
It let's you fill in rows, but no output is given. (Under ware,...)

I like opera better dan IE or FF becasuse of 2 things:

- les (known) bugs (than IE, or FF)
- the abillity to save sets of tabs
- Is use this so I have a window with X3-tabs, and a window with nes-tabs, etc, etc.

Greetz, Zero T
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