FAQ: Rankings and statistics

[pjknibbs]

Or, if you want to know how to actually display it, embed

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:gruebel:

in your message...

[teladianium]

CBJ: I guess I should have checked under "View more emoticons"

[teki]

A few questions:

- Is it considering cheating, if I start a Kha'ak Invader game and submit those stats, if I changed the registry values instead of destroying all of the universe (or whatever the conditions are for unlocking this)?

- Is it considering cheating, if using exploits or bugs in the game, and if it is, then what exactly is considered "exploits" / "bugs"?

- What would stop a person from writing a script or using "cheat" scripts, to make them nr 1 on the modified ranking ladder? Does it even matter if this have been done?

- Are unmodified game stats accepted without any closer scrutiny by default? Say a person has a play time of a few hours, but have a total credit balance in excess of a trillion credits (e.g. using an overflow bug/exploit)... Would that raise a red flag or not? And even if a red flag is raised, does the provided player stats even have enough information to verify if something is wrong/bugged or not?


I am somewhat concerned, because at the moment stats can be uploaded and compared online, then a competition has in effect begun for some. I can't think of any online stat related game, where exploits, bugs and cheats aren't used.

Can Egosoft somewhat promise that the uploaded unmodified are not tampered with? Basically, can I trust them?

I am sorry if this is pointing out some rather shady sides of any or this particular online community. In the in the end, I guess everyhing comes down to trust, as always, for better or worse.



Probably offtopic:

- Is the Kha'ak M3 Fighter possible to capture and claim in patch 2.5?

- Are Kyon Beta weapons dropped from "KM3" in patch 2.5?

[CBJ]

- Is it considering cheating, if I start a Kha'ak Invader game and submit those stats, if I changed the registry values instead of destroying all of the universe (or whatever the conditions are for unlocking this)?

No. Enabling the game start manually doesn't have any effect on the gameplay, so it cannot affect the statistics.

- Is it considering cheating, if using exploits or bugs in the game, and if it is, then what exactly is considered "exploits" / "bugs"?

As far as I'm aware there are no cash-generating bugs or exploits. Things like the exploit to allow you to get hold of certain equipment that may be out of stock by buying ships that already include it don't gain you anything significant as you still end up paying for it.

- What would stop a person from writing a script or using "cheat" scripts, to make them nr 1 on the modified ranking ladder? Does it even matter if this have been done?

There are no "top-10" lists for modified games. The general lists for modified games should be read on the assumption that everyone has done what they like, so the actual ranking is fairly meaningless.

- Are unmodified game stats accepted without any closer scrutiny by default? Say a person has a play time of a few hours, but have a total credit balance in excess of a trillion credits (e.g. using an overflow bug/exploit)... Would that raise a red flag or not? And even if a red flag is raised, does the provided player stats even have enough information to verify if something is wrong/bugged or not?

Savegames are not checked before being uploaded but could easily be removed if they turn out to be suspicious. There's no sign of that happening so far, but if it happens then we'll deal with it.

I am somewhat concerned... I guess everyhing comes down to trust, as always, for better or worse.

It sounds like you're taking this all a little too seriously. There is no prize for coming at the top of the ranking list; it's just a bit of fun. If there is an issue with someone apparently cheating then it will be dealt with, but there isn't really much motivation for anyone to do so. If it concerns you that much then just don't participate.

[mad_axeman]

As far as I'm aware there are no cash-generating bugs or exploits.

It has been possible in the past to capture a freighter that was carrying more freight than it's cargo hold could accommodate (upon capture, the cargo hold was reduced in size, but the cargo wasn't). Then buying the same cargo a station using that freighter then resulted in the stock of the station being replenished and your account being credited with money. This would count as a cash generating exploit.

It was extremely rare and you'd have to go to the trouble of checking the cargo bay of every freighter that you captured before you sold it in order to check.

I submitted this issue along with a saved game and a screen shot a long time ago and I can't remember if it was with X2 or X3. I know that it certainly wasn't fixed in X2, but have no idea about X3.

[esd]

You can also

Spoiler

Show

steal lasers from fighterdrones, redeploy the drone and steal lasers from it again

- this generates weapons/cash, but it really isn't profitable considering the time involved in the process. You'd make much more money trading even energy cells at +-1cr.

[teki]

No. Enabling the game start manually doesn't have any effect on the gameplay, so it cannot affect the statistics.

Thank you! That I am very happy about, as I have tried to unlock this by normal means, but haven't the skills and/or patience to do so. I still view this as quite as an (extreme) accomplishment, which is why I asked.

As far as I'm aware there are no cash-generating bugs or exploits. Things like the exploit to allow you to get hold of certain equipment that may be out of stock by buying ships that already include it don't gain you anything significant as you still end up paying for it.

I remember an exploit concerning SQUASH Mines and making a transporter dropping near-endless amount of them as cargo that could be salvaged. Dunno if this has been removed or fixed, as I could never personally duplicate the glitch in the first place.

-Savegames are not checked before being uploaded but could easily be removed if they turn out to be suspicious. There's no sign of that happening so far, but if it happens then we'll deal with it.

Again, that only makes me happy.

It sounds like you're taking this all a little too seriously. There is no prize for coming at the top of the ranking list; it's just a bit of fun. If there is an issue with someone apparently cheating then it will be dealt with, but there isn't really much motivation for anyone to do so. If it concerns you that much then just don't participate.

The lack of any prize doesn't exclude some people to do so ... really unfortunately it doesn't. I need not give the typical examples from CS to WoW do I? I was once very much into online MP gaming, but I gave up upon it all, because of people's need to cheat "the system". I loved it then, but as of now, I am basically only enjoying SP games now.

Yes, you are right about me probably taking this too seriously, and for that I am sorry.

I just have bad experience about such online stats, as my personaly experience is filled with people doing more in that regard for even less to gain than some numbers on a board. Play HL1 or HL2 DM with cheaters, aimbotted players etc., and you'll probably agree that there is less to gain with such a typical 20 min play experience, than messing with stats that are saved online - be it this site or any other popular quality game.

Sorry, I didn't wanna come across as an ass or something like that. I think, it is a great thing to make this online function, I just wondered.

You have satified my concerns (not that it was your job to do so), and I really didn't wanna evoke some hostility nor that anyone got the impression that I think their stats to be cheated and not to be taken "as is"

[eladan]

The lack of any prize doesn't exclude some people to do so ... really unfortunately it doesn't. I need not give the typical examples from CS to WoW do I? I was once very much into online MP gaming, but I gave up upon it all, because of people's need to cheat "the system". I loved it then, but as of now, I am basically only enjoying SP games now.

If someone really badly wants to top a list, and really wants to cheat to do it, you're probably not going to be able to stop them. But really, does it matter? How does it hurt you? Plus it's hard to see how they could get any satisfaction out of it anyway, knowing that they didn't earn it.

Having said that, this is a pretty mature community. I'd be somewhat surprised if anything like that was happening.

[teki]

If someone really badly wants to top a list, and really wants to cheat to do it, you're probably not going to be able to stop them. But really, does it matter? How does it hurt you? Plus it's hard to see how they could get any satisfaction out of it anyway, knowing that they didn't earn it.

Having said that, this is a pretty mature community. I'd be somewhat surprised if anything like that was happening.

You're probably right about that in all regards, and I am too affected by previous bad experience. I am very competative by nature, and the rankings themselves inspires me to go beyond my current level of skill - some of them are just "godly" to me, but then again, I don't doubt them to be valid, I just had some concerns and questions.

[Storm666]

@teki
I wouldn’t be too concerned about some of the elitist stats at the top, some of these players have been playing since X has begun and can trade/fight 99% of the players into space dust in a fraction of the time just because of their knowledge of the game. Although having said that most of the stats are achievable to anyone with the time and patience (and a capable pc!). Your best looking for a stat you wish to achieve and working towards that one (there’s plenty to choose from).

As for exploits since v2.0 theres basically none that will affect the rankings in such a way that can give the player an advantage, as for cheats/scripts the modified tag removes those players from the ranking list, so only ‘clean’ games are listed.

As for manipulating stats, theres only one or two that the player can achieve the top, e.g. missile hit efficiency (fire your first missile, if it hits don’t fire another all game = 100% hit efficiency) same with weapon hit efficiency.

The only thing I would like to see changed: is to have the players stats only valid for 2(maybe 3) months of uploading, this would allow chances for all players to achieve something and stop it just becoming an all time elitist list (although I think there should be another 'God' List, just for these all time records).

[Terre]

The only thing I would like to see changed: is to have the players stats only valid for 2(maybe 3) months of uploading, this would allow chances for all players to achieve something and stop it just becoming an all time elitist list (although I think there should be another 'God' List, just for these all time records).

I would also like the idea of rolling stats, as it would show who was doing what within the current time period.

[Ffrog]

How often are the stats updated? Just asking because I submitted my stats for the first time a few days ago (and tried again earlier on today), and they're not on the list yet...

[Storm666]

@Ffrog
your stats go live after a few minutes, if you cant see your stats on the first page try using the arrow keys at the end of each stat

also note: if your game is modified it will not show in these stats

[A dJ]

No, you're wrong. The stats haven't updated in a few days at all. I think they're working on a new version or something.

[The-Prophet]

No, you're wrong. The stats haven't updated in a few days at all. I think they're working on a new version or something.

My stats haven't uploaded in a few days either, i'm also hoping that its a new version, not a bug, some clarification in the sticky would be nice

[CBJ]

Your missing statistics should now show up.

[Ffrog]

Your missing statistics should now show up.

Yep, mine are on there now. Looking forward to climbing up the rankings!

[The-Prophet]

Your missing statistics should now show up.

all hail CBJ lmao thanks for being the bearer of good news

[Carlo the Curious]

A vaguely interesting thing I noticed; for 'deployed' ships (e.g. lasertowers) the stats appear to include the value of the onboard wares - somewhat curious since they're included in the price you'd get if you were to actually collect and sell one.

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<ship subtype="73">
  <ware value="155880" /> 
  <price value="151608" /> 
  <sector x="4" y="4" /> 
  <sectorrace value="8" /> 
  <race value="1" /> 
  <shipclass value="7" /> 
</ship>

[softweir]

I guess that's a side-effect of the way lasertowers (and combat drones and navsats) are handled. In our hold they are treated as a ware with a unitary price. When deployed, the game engine treates them as a pseudo-ship, with its own price and with equipment of various prices.

It would be possible to write a stats export script that treated deployed lasertowers and the like as special cases and refused to examine their installed equipment, but that would not be future-proof - the moment a new class of deployable ware came along the code would need to be updated.

Another way is to set the price of the deployed pseudo-ship as being equal to the value of the ware minus the price of the equipment. This makes for no special cases in the stats-export code, and easy future-proofing. It appears that this is the case - the TOTAL value of a deployed pseudo-ship is equal to the value of the ware.

You can test this by saving your stats, looking at the total value of your ship fleet, then launching such a ware, saving your stats again and re-examining your fleet value. Watch out for auto-traders, stations and so on engaging in commercial activity that may change things while doing this test. It is better to do a quickstart, buy a navsat and then test the efects of launching the navsat, rather than starting with a huge commercial empire.