HQ Construction chart

Deleted User · Post by **Deleted User** » Mon, 20. Nov 06, 00:28

Great, thanks.

I'll get this plumbed in,
it's a rotten time to do this though (Sunday 11-30 pm here)

Deleted User · Post by **Deleted User** » Mon, 20. Nov 06, 04:09

OK,

here's an Excel spreadsheet
(Edit :Updated 02/12/06)

[ external image ]

A whole 73 KBytes download
http://www.Exogenesis.co.uk/HQProductionCosts.zip

or 244 KBytes straight to Internet Explorer (if you've got Excel)
http://www.Exogenesis.co.uk/HQProductionCosts.xls

For people without Excel here a web page doc
(but you can't change the resource prices obviously)
802 KBytes as .htm
http://www.Exogenesis.co.uk/HQProductionCosts.htm
81 KBytes (!) same thing zipped
http://www.Exogenesis.co.uk/HQProductionCostsHTM.zip

This is accurate for resources/credits/time required,
and for profits (and/or savings) made from building ships.

You can now specify if you built your HQ in 2.0.01 or 2.0.02, since
this drastically affects the amount of Microchips needed for ship building.

Also if you've not got Excel, you could try OpenOffice 2.0, it works!, but its a 90+ MByte download, see :
http://www.openoffice.org

Or Microsoft's ExcelViewer util (9 Mbyte download)
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/deta ... laylang=EN
(thanks to teladianium for the link)

text of original post below:

esd : it looks like you can make money, but not a great deal,
in fact I think Titan & Collosus would make a stonking loss, cos the in-game
selling prices for these are only ~60% of the calculated value
- I'll update these two tomorrow (later today).

It really needs someone to make a TS or TP & post the figures as in
the first post, to check one of the values that I have assumed.

Someone like to check this over?

Goushiken · Post by **Goushiken** » Mon, 20. Nov 06, 05:05

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ship Name- Mercury
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Energy Cells- 171
Teladianium- 5
Cloth Rhymes- 1
Rastar Oil- 3
Ore- 7
Silicon Wafers- 5
Crystals- 1
Quantum Tubes- 1
Microships- 3
Computer Components- 1
Credits- 50,489
Production Time- 00:30:24

Deleted User · Post by **Deleted User** » Mon, 20. Nov 06, 09:17

Good, thanks, I assumed the right figure (5 for Class Val 2 for TS/TP).

I forgot to put INT() round all the numbers so
eg Mercury Rastar oil currenly reads 4 (actually 3.6) not the correct 3 .

There appears to be some rounding errors, making eg Dragon cost
644,287 credits, rather than the correct 644,261 credits, not sure
why.

Anyway better zoom off to work now..

Kymura · Post by **Kymura** » Mon, 20. Nov 06, 10:19

esd wrote:My question is this - is it profitable to manufacture ships and sell them to the shipyard?

DAMN!!! great idea hadnt thought of that.... 1 more item in my X3's to do list

arcana75 · Post by **arcana75** » Mon, 20. Nov 06, 10:33

Hi Dave, u said selling big ships will make a loss, but ur xls file shows profit for the M1/2 ships, about 5mil each or 80+k/hr.

I assume u updated ur xls?

Deleted User · Post by **Deleted User** » Mon, 20. Nov 06, 10:44

This only applies to the Argon M1/M2,
I haven't update this yet (later ~3hrs from now).

If you look at the sell price of Titan & Colossus in the sheet they're
way bigger than the actual price you could sell for at a shipyard.

I think Egosoft made a special case for these two ships for some reason.

Looney · Post by **Looney** » Mon, 20. Nov 06, 10:45

two quick questions......

are there any ships that will make a prifit if sold to a shipyard?
is the pirate nova raider still 3 sheilds?
if i RE an original 3 sheild nova raider, will it still have 3 sheilds?
Do any of the races actually automatically buy ships of the HQ?
i would presume if you wish to sell them, this would be a manual thing?

any help would be cool.

jlehtone · Post by **jlehtone** » Mon, 20. Nov 06, 11:07

Looney wrote:if i RE an original 3 sheild nova raider, will it still have 3 sheilds?

Apparently the game saves into savefile some information about a ship. For example, how many shields it installs. So the specs, while shown, are only used while creating the ship. And game creates a ship by looking its specs from the game file. So my bet is that the RE simply looks up the object type ID from the "reversed" sample and stores that. When the HQ then builds a ship, it looks the specs of that ID from the game file. The RelValue is used to compute the requirements, and effective stats become what they are in the game file. RelValue is used to compute the shipyard prices too. I have not figured out the constant multiplier, but it is near 80. Naturally, the price at SY includes also standard (S/M/L) equipment.

Which reminds me. Built-in equipment. For example, the Ore Collector on Miner variants. Does that duplicate? It would be kind of hard to add Triplex on Jag Raider later on.

Why the savegame holds the data on shield count is beyond me. IMO, one should always dynamically refer to the game file. As is the savegame can have ships that "do not exist" due to game file change.

AFAIK, the Argon Nova Raider was never supposed to have 3 shields. One of the earlier patches probably tried to fix that, but accidentally decreased the number of shields in Argon Nova Sentinel. I think both "bugs" have been now fixed.

Edit: This is the German thread. Nearly 60 hours for Titan. I think I rather buy 20 rather than build them.

fud · Post by **fud** » Mon, 20. Nov 06, 14:17

I'd be more interested in using this to mass-produce fighters. I can't wait that long for the big ships.

Deleted User · Post by **Deleted User** » Mon, 20. Nov 06, 15:07

I've edited the two 'special' cases (show in red text).

Also added the buying cost (minus min. equipment = 1MJ or 125MJ shield) of each
ship from a shipyard (if you can in fact buy it, a lot you can't).

Also removed some of the dafter 'ships', eg can't see anyone REing an astronaut or spaceflies,
even if you could put them in the production queue, and you can't capture a khaak cluster
to RE it anyway. (Can you capture UFO in 2.0?, left that in just in case).

btw the 'prices' values (yellow on the top right) can be edited, so eg if you make some
of these for free you can see how it affect a potential profit making enterprise
(you'd even make some profits from those Argon M1/M2s if resources cost you nothing).

Anything I've missed or got wrong? Perhaps the table order could be better.

(Download link is in 2nd from top post in this page)

.

fud · Post by **fud** » Mon, 20. Nov 06, 16:06

Dave Toome wrote:
Also removed some of the dafter 'ships', eg can't see anyone REing an astronaut or spaceflies...

Aww, come on.

What could be more fun than going into X101 and launching 50 space men?

I believe the tactical term is "chaff".

Of course, the problem is, as soon as a space man enters a ship, he's a slave.

Vitez · Post by **Vitez** » Mon, 20. Nov 06, 18:00

Looney wrote: Nearly 60 hours for Titan. I think I rather buy 20 rather than build them.

Hehe..Thats why I'm planning to produce M6-s, TL-s and maybe the M7, and sell them to shipyards. I gues it should bring 1-2 mill. And I'll buy the M2-s and M1-s

Goushiken · Post by **Goushiken** » Mon, 20. Nov 06, 18:29

Well there goes my dreams of building my own M1/M2s 2 days is just to long it makes more sense to build M7s and sell them to fund purchasing M1/M2s

Deleted User · Post by **Deleted User** » Mon, 20. Nov 06, 21:22

Spreadsheet re-ordered, the ships are much more logical now,
and tarted it up (much easier to read, I think),
and finally remembered to put the INT()s into the formulae,

Download link in 2nd post of this page updated, repeated here:
A whole 42 KBytes download
http://www.Exogenesis.co.uk/HQProductionCosts.zip
or 154 KBytes straight to Internet Explorer
http://www.Exogenesis.co.uk/HQProductionCosts.xls

I wonder if it's worth starting a new thread,
(with credits to contibuters)
and asking TSM for it to be put in the Guides sticky ?
Otherwise this thread will sink down the forum pretty pronto.

edit: just seen the Teladi Phoenix is also a special case: updated

edit2:
Can you make a goner ship for free, or do you still have to buy the resources?

edit3:
Did we beat the German forum to it?, I looked at the thread linked by jlehtone,
I'm guessing so, but I'm afraid I can't read German.

eladan · Post by **eladan** » Mon, 20. Nov 06, 23:52

I think this is worth putting a link in for the guides sticky - maybe ask one of the kind moderators hereabouts to split the relevant posts to a new thread for you.

Had a look at the link myself, and it looks like you're the first to do this, but then, I can't read German either...

Nyax · Post by **Nyax** » Tue, 21. Nov 06, 02:35

Excellent. Well that was FAR quicker and easier then i was expecting

Nice work Mr Toome

jlehtone · Post by **jlehtone** » Tue, 21. Nov 06, 13:46

Dave, since we have the ratios of different wares, say for each Crystal two Chips, three Wafers, and four Ore, could those ratios be converted into factory units? They are obviously not 1:1. I'm thinking of the recipe for balanced resource complex here.

Edit: I took the liberty to advertize the spreadsheet in that german thread. (No I cannot read nor write german either, but that does not stop me.

) They are mainly shouting "errors" or something to that effect.

Deleted User · Post by **Deleted User** » Tue, 21. Nov 06, 19:36

jlehtone : you'll get me in trouble ....

Had a look a what was being said on the German forum, getting some hilarious Google translations,
the best I can understand is that there seems to be some small errors in nividium for khaak ships.
Possibly also a tiddly bit of 'not invented here' syndrome, which is not too surprising, no bad feeling though I hope.

I think I'll check (as many as I can) of their posted values against the spreadsheet, to see if anything shows up,
with 5 pages of posts I might go cross-eyed before the end.
Also it seems at least one person is against having an xls sheet, in favour of a html doc,
which means every ship would have to have been RE'd by someone.

About the factory complex thing:
haven't given it much thought yet but wouldn't it depend on what ships you choose to produce?.
I mean there's no point in putting up a mega-complex that produces a balanced ratio of needs,
but at 10x the rate that it's being used.
Also different scales of complexes would need different factory combinations, especially if you start using M sized ones.
And then of course there's the question of the mix of factories from different races.
That's quite a challenge to automate the design for (but possible, I think), I'll look at it anyway, but no promises

(Anyway where'd the challenge be if the sheet just told you everything).

Perhaps initially it would be better to have extra columns in the xls that show
'resources used per hour' for each resource type, so that you could add-up your chosen ship (set?) resource needs up,
and use Merroc's (or my) factory complex calc. xls/util to design the best complex?

fud · Post by **fud** » Tue, 21. Nov 06, 19:43

I'm all about excess. What is leftover after ship production will be sold to the highest bidder, or stuffed in a TS, and sold at a shipyard.

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

HQ Construction chart