HQ Construction chart

[Deleted User]

For people without Excel here a web page doc:
(but you can't change the resource prices obviously)

http://www.Exogenesis.co.uk/HQProductionCosts.htm

(spreadsheet download link now 5 post up from here)

[CBJ]

Nice, but it doesn't display too well in Firefox. Some of the columns overlap. They are fine in IE.

[ukdj78]

My question is this - is it profitable to manufacture ships and sell them to the shipyard?

I was wandering this myself earlier today so I gave it a go. I've just produced an Arrow and sent it unmodified to a shipyard to see what I would get for it. It was worth 882,963 credits.

After taking into account the cost of the raw materials (at their average prices) and credits needed to produce it I worked out that you'd get a profit of 77,986 credits if you sold it.

[CBJ]

That sounds about right. And if you buy at a lower price or produce some or all of the resources yourself then you can make more profit.

[frymaster]

also it looks like m6s are probably the best to produce - they're in the cap ship category (highest profit) but take the least amount of time. There's also a convincing argument for M3s - less profits, but a lot easier to deliver

[Arseface]

I agree that M6s look like the best bet.

At the moment I'm building LXs, but they're fairly expensive in production time especially:

4.5hrs and 1.5M credits to produce 1 LX, whereas I could get a Centaur for 5hrs and 2.5M. The Ls look a nice deal though, 40min turnaround time is great. Could have a squadren of M3s very quickly indeed.

[frymaster]

erk, didn't notice the M5 was even better from a profit point of view

[junj.chan]

just what i wanted

150 hours to repay itself... thats not too bad considering the bonus of making my own ships

[dalin80]

i fond it best used on smaller unique craft, ships like the starburst, xenon n/m etc. can be churned out quickly at fairly low cost (its easy enough to just get the stock yourself).

i wouldn't bother going for any of the bigger ships now, producing 3 xenon lx's cost me a fortune and took ages to produce its also at the point where stock requirements turn the phq into a micromanagement hell.

[jlehtone]

There are considerations:

There are two ways to get the resources:
1. Buy. Even if cheap, they cost some. M5 ships look profitable.
2. Make. Selfsufficient complex means the resource price is 0. M1/2/6/7 is now the most profitable.

There are two reasons to build ships:
1. To get a fleet. Then one should look, how much one saves by building instead of buying.
2. To sell. Selling price and profit is lower than savings from not buying.


About the latter. I bought Jaguar Raider S fro Cho's Defeat (after most unfortunate gerbil).
Buying price: 88,182
Then I did a round and asked what shipyards will pay for that ship. There was no changes, so it was 100% factory-fresh (ie contains 1 MJ shield, and built-in Triplex and Fight Mk1&2).

Cho offered 66,972.
Other Split (Fam Pride, Fam Njy, Fam Tkr) offered 57,762.
Teladi (PTNI and Grand) offered 57,762 as well.
Argon Omicron, Boron Ocean, and Paranid Cardinal offered 56,680.

My Teladi and Split ranks are the top one. My Argon, Boron, and Paranid ranks are the second one.

So:
1. The shipyard that sells the ship seems to pay more.
2. The effect of one race rank level is over 1%.

But this was just one M5.

[dalin80]

and that m5 would be destroyed so you would have to produce a certain amount just for profits to cover the original purchase cost. again though not an issue with capped/ found ships.

i dont think i will produce anything bigger then a falcon sentinal

edit- has anyone produced a self sufficient complex for this yet, the reason i ask is ive just been playings around with daves complex calculator and iam struggling to get it under 160,000,000 with 46 factories. the problem comes with producing enough excess to use rather then getting the complex to keep itself going.

[Deleted User]

dalin80, have a look at
http://forum2.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?p=1915620
about half way down

jlehtone:

Subtle complexity,
you were right to pick on the Jag Raider, it the one that stands out as most
different (in profits) from it's nearest neighbour in the table.
This brings it more in-line.
The shipyard prices are estimates, based on several examples I bought/sold, but
obviously thats not going to be accurate enough.

Tried it myself:

Buy Jag Raider 88,192

Code: Select all

Race	My rank	Sell       Your rank     Sell
        1 = top
Argon       2     56,680     2	       56,680
Boron       2     56,680     2	       56,680
Split       2     56,680     1	       57,762
Paranid     1     57,762     2          56,680
Teladi      2     56,680     1	       57,762

So, a definite correlation.
This has a significant effect on the profits (or savings), I wonder if info can
be gleaned from delving into the scripts (or is this stuff hard coded).
If anyone can give pointers to a script name that handles shipyard operation,
it might save a lot of effort.

[jlehtone]

Dave, did you have the same thing that Cho's Defeat offered more than any other SY for Jag R?

Another thing, the SY price ougth to be

Code: Select all

C * RelVal + upgrades

That constant C is probably hardcoded. At least one should see it from stripped prices, if they have been properly stripped. Jag R has built-in components. I have no idea where they are in the equation.

[Preda]

Is the X-ship encountered anywhere in the universe, or is it part of a mod?

[Deleted User]

The Xperimental shuttle (assuming that's what you mean by X-ship) is a left-over from
XBTF, ie pre-X2, but it's still in the files.

[ external image ]

jlehtone
Yes, I got the same better resell price from ChoD as you did, I guess
the station manager knows that you haven't taken it away for a 'test-drive'.

In the chart the selling price was based on NPC ReVal * 54.9,
this number was arrived at by selling at the same shipyard as it was bought at
after removing those minimum extras (ie 1MJ or 125MJ shield).
So e.g Nova sells at 1,089K, Mammoth at 19,280K, did this with a selection of
all classes across all races.

I'm confident about the resource/credits/time requirements but:
it looks like the charts 'selling price' is reasonably accurate for a several ships,
close for some others, but significantly inaccurate for others.
(esp. the Jag Raider).
Then there's this race rank modification of the price as you've said.

The 'Approx. buying price' is based on this 'selling price' so Jag Raider comes out as 73K
for a Jag Raider cf the 88K you paid.

So a few problems here, but really the chart's main purpose was the resource list,
the profit/saving thing may be not right for many ships, but the figures are in the right area.

Assuming the factors are hard coded, then short of scripting in each ship one by one,
with various game rank settings & seeing what the prices are,
I don't see a way of getting a complete accurate list for sell/buy values.

Edit:
Whoops, that image was the APGunner - an M6, this is (was) the XPShuttle (an M3):
[ external image ]

[[CMA]Radon]

edit- has anyone produced a self sufficient complex for this yet, the reason i ask is ive just been playings around with daves complex calculator and iam struggling to get it under 160,000,000 with 46 factories. the problem comes with producing enough excess to use rather then getting the complex to keep itself going.

I have finished doing a complex for producing microchips and computer components. The problem is this takes a lot of silicon. I use Ashley Factories at the moment, as I am sick of fiddling with dozens of small factories. The cost will be about the same, but with not as much clutter.

[donotdespisethesnake]

Is this any use? I am using a complex like this, to produce nearly everything for builidng M3s:

Code: Select all

Teladi	Silicon Mine L	1	60
Teladi	Silicon Mine L	1	25
(Teladi	Ore Mine M	1	25)
Boron	Solar Power Plant XL	1	 
Boron	Crystal Fab M	5	 
Boron	Bio Gas Factory L	3	 
Boron	BoFu Chemical Lab L	3	 
Teladi	Teladianium foundry M	1	 
Argon	Wheat Farm M	1	 
Argon	Rimes Factory M	1	 
Split	Rastar Refinery M	1	 
Split	Chelt Space Aquarium M	1	 
Boron	Crystal Fab M	1	 
Boron	Quantum Tube Fab	1	 
Boron	Chip plant	3	 
Boron	Computer Plant	1	 
Boron	Bio Gas Factory M	1	 
Boron	BoFu Chemical Lab M	1	 

Cost is 83 M incl constr kits, 28 factories.

I put this in Light Water, so I left out the Ore mine, and it doesn't make much silicon, so I have standalone silicon and ore mines nearby. I seem to be swimming in raw materials now... so I sell the excess.

I have set up another complex to make 25MJ,125MJ,AHEPT and BHEPT which should be able to keep up with both M3 and M6 production.

[Deleted User]

Had a quick (ho ho) look at the effects of race rank
and built-in equipment on ship selling prices.

Got some significantly different results (profits/savings) to those
shown in the previous spreadsheet version:
'profits are down'
'savings are up'



1 Your rank with the race that you are selling the ship to, is very significant.

2 Ships that come with built-in equipment will be produced by the HQ with that equipment,
this significanty effects the selling price, since you get 100% value of that equipment
when you sell the ship (surprised me)

3 There's a big difference between selling a ship to the race that it 'belongs to',
compared to selling to a different race - about 25% less for same-race selling
(except for M6's, strangly you get ~20% more for selling to same race).


So I updated the xls sheet (& htm) to take account of this, you can now edit your
race rank, so you can see the actual selling price effect.

Also it turns out there's a minimun HQ requirement of 1 crystal for building any ship.

The sheet now shows the true shipyard buying price, to get an accurate 'saving of making
a ship, over buying it' value.

Removed all the greyed-out 'non-statndard' ships, since they aren't available anyway.

The download links are on post:
http://forum3.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php ... 86#1908686


.

[CreHater]

Here's my contribution. I have taken the liberty to put (in green) the number of resource required per hour. So that if you build a complex, you know the amount need to produce per hour. Smaller ships will need less resource.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ship Name- Python (M2)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Energy Cells- 84000 - 1680
Teladianium- 2623 - 53
Cloth Rhymes- 874 - 18
Rastar Oil- 1749 - 35
Ore- 3498 - 70
Silicon Wafers- 2623 - 53
Crystals- 874 - 18
Quantum Tubes- 874 - 18
Microships- 1749 - 35
Computer Components- 874 - 18
Credits- 24.780.106
Production Time- 2-01:38

[eladan]

Also it turns out there's a minimun HQ requirement of 1 crystal for building any ship.

You also need at least one unit of each of: Energy Cells, Ore, Silicon, Teladianium, Nividium (for khaak) and credits Though for most of those you're unlikely to find anything with a low enough relval for it to calculate needing <1 anyway.

Removed all the greyed-out 'non-statndard' ships, since they aren't available anyway.

I'd ask if they could be kept in anyway (maybe hidden?) since there are always... umm... non-standard ways to get those ships!

Really nice work Dave. There's some good info there.