X-universe online

[mrbadger]

Mr Badger you have to stop looking at things thru the bottom of a rum bottle

ah no, this time it's looking at things after finding the solution to a particulerly troublesome bit of math.

[FoubouT]

In my opinion, you guys are thinking too much. Keep it simple it is always easier.

Anyway about the SETA mode I suppose the best thing would be to replace the SETA by a docking computer type of device which could be applied to objects, stations, gates and ships and that would "teleport" you to the targeted place in a couple of sec. It would sort of cut the distance between your ship and the target and it should depend on your ship's speed. That would need quite a lot of programing but I'm sure egosoft's programers are more than capable.

That way if you are in a fight with another player and he or she tries to run away you can still follow them.

For fights it shouldn't be a problem but if a player dies he should automatically respawn in the last station where he was.

I don't what this idea is worth but I am sure it can be managed.

What do you guys think?

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

1> Ok, so you take off on your maiden voyage, you leave the protection of the station.

2> You are immediately attacked by another player who almost instantly kills you goto line 1:


Just how long are you going to play this game for?

[fiksal]

I admit MMO's are cool, but online X3 doesnt have to imply that it's MMO.

MMO takes a LOT of people and puts them into the in the same universe. And then the problems start to arise about loging on/off, persistence, fairness, combat, scale and what not.

Which what X-OU is kinda supposed to be.
I however welcome just a multiplayer option for X3, or its successor.
To compare to MMO, - multiplayer can keep things simplier:
Have options that allow people to bring on their properties (to a degree) into a game - or let users figure that out before hand.
Persistence - server doesnt have to be on all the time - depends who's playing.
Fairness - simply polish some things in X3, and dont worry about people camping.
Scale/distance/travel - address SETA concerns.

OK so SETA can be dealt with in many different ways. The next problem is combat. Specifically, between players. So how do we deal with this.

1) What losses would the "dead" player sustain?
2) Should player to player combat be allowed in all sectors, or restricted to a few lawless ones?
3) What kind of race military / police response should the attacker expect?
4) What about formal agreed combat?
5) Should there be player combat areas where no losses are incurred?

Just a few questions as per usual....

1. Reappear at last docked station or a shipyard is fine. Perhaps a compensation (like insurance) for lost ships. And allow players to configure the degree of 'reimbursement' before the game(server) is started.

2. Yes, just like now. I think though police/military forces are quite thin in the game, even for single player. More military/police ships need to be spawned when something happens.

3. Tougher responses, in general. I also think that perhaps a player should have a choice of what race to ally himself/herself with. This way if someone attacks you directly - it may hurt their rep with your race. I want to see that addition in singleplayer too.

4. A duel? That could be cool.

5. Player combat everywhere.

1> Ok, so you take off on your maiden voyage, you leave the protection of the station.

2> You are immediately attacked by another player who almost instantly kills you goto line 1:

Just how long are you going to play this game for?

Until you get sick of those guys and connect to another server, tell the moderator if against the agreed rules, or start your own server and call your buddies.
Let the X-OU worry about that.

[FoubouT]

ZaphodBeeblebrox
PostPosted: Thu, 17. Aug 06, 17:51 Post subject:
1> Ok, so you take off on your maiden voyage, you leave the protection of the station.

2> You are immediately attacked by another player who almost instantly kills you goto line 1:


Just how long are you going to play this game for?

to address dis prob, i think a restrection system should b used. eg: your home station cant get attacked 4 da 1st 100hrs of game play. but overall i think 4 a game lik this, being played over da internet by 1000s of players there will always be problems.

i think this could work if it can be played over lan with friends, bcause it is much easier to control n common aggrements can b made. but the problem is eventually it will bcome boring, after all no one plays 1 single game in a lan party 4 more than 8hrs. and it will b same as homeworld if the players just gonna build n attack n dnt spend time trade.

so i know that its really cool if Egosoft do manage to put together a multiplayer version of X but if u think about it, its not the exactly the type of game that ment to be playd with multiplayer.

[fiksal]

so i know that its really cool if Egosoft do manage to put together a multiplayer version of X but if u think about it, its not the exactly the type of game that ment to be playd with multiplayer.

That's right. But that's why Multiplayer games can not be started from scratch. The game could start from one saved game, and then let people to import their players, properties and what not. Some things have to be negotiated in that case.
This way people can pick up their games where they left off, play together, disconnect, and continue playing by themselves until the next time.
And I see no problems in appearing/dissappearing ships and stations from game session to game session - God engine does it all the time

Oh well, maybe I am alone on this one

[Ruut]

I was viewing more a cooperation in LAN.
To share the X universe with my friends when they want and be able to play an other party alone when they can’t connect.
X universe is good like he is actually.

I don’t want an online X universe.
Online world are too restrictive.
I just want to share pleasure moment with my friend, not with unknown’s players.

[fiksal]

I don’t want an online X universe.
Online world are too restrictive.
I just want to share pleasure moment with my friend, not with unknown’s players.

Exactly

Perhaps, I am not alone then

[CBJ]

Don't get too excited about the idea of LAN play. It has been indicated a number of times that the intended direction of the game series is towards an eventual goal of an MMO. There are a number of reasons why a LAN game is unlikely, ranging from the technical to the economic, but you'll have to trawl through some old discussions of this for the full explanations.

[Chrisalis]

Just for the sake of argument, if X-Online goes through (I hope it does... eventually ^^) would you reckon that it would be better to have a few big and incredibly fast servers run by Egosoft to be able to withstand loads of players... or a load of small servers run by people that want to host a server themselves that can hold up to, say, 30 players?

I, personally, would go for the few big servers because I think it would be more exiting and more realistic... with more people to interact with and have fun with, make groups and corporations to make money... have your own fleet but with other players and not automated pilots... now that would be good.

[handy388]

most people overlooks one thing. When you make anything a MMO, the chance is that you won't be the king of universe anymore.

I do well in a single player shooter and save the entire platoon, will I do that in a multiplayer? No, the chance is I will be headshoted the second I spawn by some 1337 kids who plays all the time.

You aren't going to be the one who owns a fleet. Instead, the chance is you will be digging asteroid, flying UT and what no, and submit all you made to some clan leader in return for protection (this is already happening in Eve). You won't be able to solo anymore because people always look forward to cap your ship.

Capping actually exists in EVE, things like blocking the gate with couple of battlecruiser and threaten a ship owner "leave your ship or we will kill", etc.

lastly, there is a fine line between games and MMOs. by definition, MMO is addicitve and defines a lifestyle. If that's what you want, fine, but a lot of people perfer to have life outside of gaming.

[FireballX3]

Yeah, that's why I also think, simply WAN/LAN Multiplayer would be better than a big style MMO.

I want my friends to be able to join in as a wingman or as a battlecruiser commandant or whatever he (she?) prefers and then raid a xenon sector or building up some structures or even let him handle trading and do the capping and so on.

So you think X3 as singleplayer game is not/less addictive?


-Fireball

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

You aren't going to be the one who owns a fleet. Instead, the chance is you will be digging asteroid, flying UT and what not, and submit all you made to some clan leader in return for protection (this is already happening in Eve).

Given the fact that most people who play X games do so in order to rule the Universe, they are not going to play an MMO, where they end up as a "wage slave" to somebody else. We already have a job to fulfill that function.

An MMO in the style of Eve would clearly alienate quite a lot of the current fan base. Which returns me to the points I made earlier, giving a lot of thought to player v player combat, can stop a lot of the above problems.

Unrestricted player v player combat will always lead to the strong stamping on the weak. I for one don't want to play a game like that.

[FoubouT]

Ok people that's all good and fun to talk about a possible online version of X but first before going any further ask yourselves that simple question:

Are you ready to pay each month a sum of money that will most probably be around 20$ to play a game on the net?

Personaly I wouldn't pay any money to enclose myself in a virtual world though the idea of interacting with so many people in such a great game is fantastic and though I am aware that many people do pay to play online games and enjoy it. But honestly I don't think it's worth it. Although I love video games and could spend hours playing, I'd rather use that money to go out for a drink with my friends (and possibly get a girl if I'm lucky:lol: ).

I doubt that if egosoft manages to put together a X online game, they will let people play it for free considering the price it cost to do such a thing.

On the other hand, having a LAN mode of X will be much more interesting because it is a once of investment that anybody can access but still there are some problems arising such as is it possible to have a "plug and play" server type that will allow players to play a game on there own and then share and evolve in it with other player via LAN whenever they want??

[Ezequeel]

if XSeries ever gos online. i would say. change or take away the ability to build stations. or change it some how or just add and keep the pirates and khaks npc's to attack the stations in bigger groups more powerfull. but i would say change the ability to build stations on your own for online.

[Wolvan]

I will say it again, if you take away the ability to build stations/fleets, X ceases to be X. At least IMO.

X as an MMO is, in its current incarnation is unfortunately impossible, but with small server/LAN multiplayer there are other issues to be considered beyond SETA.

Other problems with X-Online that haven't been considered:

- When a player is offline, do their stations/ships remain active? Can I wait for a player to offline before I wage war on his assets when he is unable to respond to an attack. Do his UTs and station transports still clog up the servers processing power making him money when he is away?

- Price of assets: Play for a few days and you can easilly have enough money for a complex of fabs, or cap enough ships to have a sizable fleet of smaller ships. Obviously cappability of ships and the price of stations would need to be addressed. Maybe increase the cost of everything 10x to slow development of the galaxy and lessen server load.

- PVP: Without a really good PVP system X-online wouldn't be worth playing TBH. And I don't just mean combat, competing with other players for top dollar in the production/trading racket is PVP too. I think EvE does a good job of limiting PVP in 'safe' systems. An idea would be to make the core systems 'non-PVP'. That is, if you kill someone in a races home systems an uber kitted M2 from their fleet jumps (spawns) to your location and pretty much insta pops you with PPC fire. You can grief noobs if you want but be prepared to lose your ship when you do. Leave the outlying areas as 'PVP enabled' But of course if the game was run on small community supported servers it would really be decided server to server by the admins.

- OOS/IS As we all know there are some serious, almost game breaking differences with how the game is computed both IS and OOS which could easilly be exploited to give a player an advantage over his opponent in combat. Or the ballance of an OOS engagement could be thrown way out of whack because a noob making an E-Cell run passed through the wrong sector at the wrong time. Maybe calculate all combat encounters as IS with collision detection on? But again, this would be a major server drain.

- Player death: What happens when a player dies? Does he appear in his space suit in his nearest station? What if he doesn't own one yet? In the nearest station? What if he's 12 jumps from the nearest friendly shipyard? What if he's out of money, does he get a basic disco to start to rebuild? What's to stop someone from having a friend killing him over and over again and selling off all those discos for quick, free, easy cash?



Now that I look at it, LAN support would be relatively easy to implement if the game was designed for it, with a small ammount of players and an agreement on the rules. But the game just simply isn't designed for multiplayer, and to make it multiplayer it would loose some of its appeal. At least for me.

If you want an online sci fi experience, get an EvE account, and sate your thirst for empire building and grand scale fleet command with X. At least untill Ego makes a dedicated X online from the ground up.