Updated the stand-alone complex calculator, now version is 2.0.0.0
(link to relevent post at bottom of this post).
Merroc : could you update the thread title to have 'FCC 2.0.0.0' in it ?,
also could you keep only the link to the stand-alone post at the end of
your OP (i.e. could you remove the old download links) - thanks.
CC.xls V2.1! & FCC.exe V2.0.0.2 ("the old thread")
Moderator: Moderators for English X Forum
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Deleted User
.Well, I loaded a complex design into FCC 2.0.0.0 that I had made with FCC 1.0.0.7. No differences in the potential values. But the (repeated) simulation does come up with slightly different predictions (for Wafers, Crystals, Energy, etc not perfectly 100% intermediates). So no real surprises there.
Installs ok. Did not crash on first try. Does not reveal errors on my complex plans. What more can one ask with this price tag?
Installs ok. Did not crash on first try. Does not reveal errors on my complex plans. What more can one ask with this price tag?
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Deleted User
1. No, I have not noticed anything of that sort, but I keep hoping.
I tend to see more Clusters than before, but I have also more patrolled sectors, so any "concentration" must be just a result of patrols kicking them out from elsewhere.
2. Not a word.
Slightly back to topic. The complex I checked with FCC versions is the one I have mentioned before. Short on Silicon, unless the Crystal stock is full. X-Freak Cartman's Komplexpruefer says that the complex does have effective shortage of Silicon. The Pruefer probably does one iteration through the "loop" to obtain 'effective' values from 'theoretical' values. Obviously, that is not close enough to the ingame experience.
The FCC simulation (both versions) does keep the complex running and eventually (about after 450 hours) even the Silicon stock fills up. That is nice, but sort of strange, because I assume that the simulation starts from minimal amount of resources and ingame that would mean running out of Wafers rather than reaching the stable running state.
I tend to see more Clusters than before, but I have also more patrolled sectors, so any "concentration" must be just a result of patrols kicking them out from elsewhere.
2. Not a word.
Slightly back to topic. The complex I checked with FCC versions is the one I have mentioned before. Short on Silicon, unless the Crystal stock is full. X-Freak Cartman's Komplexpruefer says that the complex does have effective shortage of Silicon. The Pruefer probably does one iteration through the "loop" to obtain 'effective' values from 'theoretical' values. Obviously, that is not close enough to the ingame experience.
The FCC simulation (both versions) does keep the complex running and eventually (about after 450 hours) even the Silicon stock fills up. That is nice, but sort of strange, because I assume that the simulation starts from minimal amount of resources and ingame that would mean running out of Wafers rather than reaching the stable running state.
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Deleted User
Presumably the point at which crystals start to fill is when some
other intermediate(s) has reached max stock?
Is this the 50 station complex?, perhaps you could detail the exact make-up
(PM an edit-copy of the first 5 columns, or email the same, or email the .x3c file, it might be a bit big to put in a post?)
The old sim. had too few ecells (with a bugged, overly complex seed-equation) for the seed in some cases,
leading to a slow start-up for larger complexes.
The new one puts in 4 times the number of ecells required for one run of everything, = a much larger amount,
so I surprised the old & new sim predictions are very similar.
The factor of 4 is need for some extreme complexes eg a raster M based around a yield 9 silicon (L) asteroid (verified in-game),
but is probably over the top for very large complexes.
other intermediate(s) has reached max stock?
Is this the 50 station complex?, perhaps you could detail the exact make-up
(PM an edit-copy of the first 5 columns, or email the same, or email the .x3c file, it might be a bit big to put in a post?)
The old sim. had too few ecells (with a bugged, overly complex seed-equation) for the seed in some cases,
leading to a slow start-up for larger complexes.
The new one puts in 4 times the number of ecells required for one run of everything, = a much larger amount,
so I surprised the old & new sim predictions are very similar.
The factor of 4 is need for some extreme complexes eg a raster M based around a yield 9 silicon (L) asteroid (verified in-game),
but is probably over the top for very large complexes.
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Deleted User
Got the PM:
Thats quite a complex combination of 53 factories in that complex
,
The reason it doesn't stall due to 'running out of silicon',
is that having only '92.7% required silicon' causes the crystals to
initially only run at 90% of max. rate (some silicon is used by the drone factories).
This causes the SPPs to run a bit slow, but since you've got an excess (105%) of crystal potential,
it's OK cos 90% x 105% = 95% of that needed to run the SPPs, so the SPPs initially run at 95%.
You've also got an excess (103%) of ecell potential, and 95% x 103% = 98%,
which is enough to run everything else at 100% - when the crystals are only running at 90%.
So even when initially the SPPs are running a bit slow, the silicon mines
(& the rest) never run out of energy = no stall.
In fact the steady state (7 out of 10 intermediates are at max. stock and
running at well less than 100% production rate) which is attained at around 650 hours,
has the silicon mines only running at 92% of max. rate, but all weapons/shields are running at 100%
Simple
Thats quite a complex combination of 53 factories in that complex
,The reason it doesn't stall due to 'running out of silicon',
is that having only '92.7% required silicon' causes the crystals to
initially only run at 90% of max. rate (some silicon is used by the drone factories).
This causes the SPPs to run a bit slow, but since you've got an excess (105%) of crystal potential,
it's OK cos 90% x 105% = 95% of that needed to run the SPPs, so the SPPs initially run at 95%.
You've also got an excess (103%) of ecell potential, and 95% x 103% = 98%,
which is enough to run everything else at 100% - when the crystals are only running at 90%.
So even when initially the SPPs are running a bit slow, the silicon mines
(& the rest) never run out of energy = no stall.
In fact the steady state (7 out of 10 intermediates are at max. stock and
running at well less than 100% production rate) which is attained at around 650 hours,
has the silicon mines only running at 92% of max. rate, but all weapons/shields are running at 100%
Simple
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Deleted User
'FCC' Stand-alone calculator updated to 2.0.0.2:
now has Auto-Fill to automatically fill in
all the needed resource factories.
[ external image ]
now has Auto-Fill to automatically fill in
all the needed resource factories.
[ external image ]
Merrocs complex calculator
First of all, wow, nice piece of work Merroc.
Unfortunatly I think I need some help understanding a result I've got from it.
I want to put in some self sufficient SPPs. Using the calculator (v2.0) I find the following works
Argon - Silicon Mine - L - 1 off - yeild 20
Argon - Crystal Fab - M - 2 off
Argon - Cahoona bakery - M - 2 off
Argon - Cattle ranch - M - 2 off
Argon - SPP - M - 2 off
This will give me an excess of 22,320 e-cells per hour, with 100% of everything else available.
However if I tick the "sell excess ore/silicon & buy needed crystals" it tells me I have an excess of 19124.83 e-cells and 6.52 silicon wafers, but need 4.07 crystals, which I find rather confusing.
Is this suggesting that 2xcrystal fab-M can't quite produce enough crystals for 2xSPP-M> And why if I bought in more crystals would I have less e-cells available?
Hope this makes sense to somebody.
Unfortunatly I think I need some help understanding a result I've got from it.
I want to put in some self sufficient SPPs. Using the calculator (v2.0) I find the following works
Argon - Silicon Mine - L - 1 off - yeild 20
Argon - Crystal Fab - M - 2 off
Argon - Cahoona bakery - M - 2 off
Argon - Cattle ranch - M - 2 off
Argon - SPP - M - 2 off
This will give me an excess of 22,320 e-cells per hour, with 100% of everything else available.
However if I tick the "sell excess ore/silicon & buy needed crystals" it tells me I have an excess of 19124.83 e-cells and 6.52 silicon wafers, but need 4.07 crystals, which I find rather confusing.
Is this suggesting that 2xcrystal fab-M can't quite produce enough crystals for 2xSPP-M> And why if I bought in more crystals would I have less e-cells available?
Hope this makes sense to somebody.
I think that explains it then. Unticked the mine isn't running at 100% because it gets fully stocked. Ticked it runs at 100% but the extra crystals I need to buy in actually drop the profit a fraction.
Unticked it's 424080/hr max profit. With the box ticked it drops to 367676 turnover less 7875 costs so 359801 profit/hr
Unticked it's 424080/hr max profit. With the box ticked it drops to 367676 turnover less 7875 costs so 359801 profit/hr
As you, hopefully, found out. Not ticking the box will let the sheet assume that you arent selling the excess silicon (6.52 an hour in this case), not selling means also not producing for the sheet. Hence you spare out 24*6.52 EC (it takes 24 EC for every silicon wafer) per hour, which you can then sell.
However at the same time the same tickbox tells the sheet that you arent buying in the little needed crystals (4.07 per hour). What you dont have, you cant use. So the SPP runs a bit slower, lacking some EC per hour (not sure how many EC per crystal).
You save a little, you gain a little.
What i dont understand though, is why the difference is that big, in this case it should be more in the order of hundreds not thousands.. And ill look into this later this afternoon.
Oh and i've merged this with my Complex Calculator thread, seeing as it really belongs there.
However at the same time the same tickbox tells the sheet that you arent buying in the little needed crystals (4.07 per hour). What you dont have, you cant use. So the SPP runs a bit slower, lacking some EC per hour (not sure how many EC per crystal).
You save a little, you gain a little.
What i dont understand though, is why the difference is that big, in this case it should be more in the order of hundreds not thousands.. And ill look into this later this afternoon.
Oh and i've merged this with my Complex Calculator thread, seeing as it really belongs there
.Im probably telling it the wrong way around
If you dont have the tickbox checked, you're not buying in that few crystals to make the SPP produce at 100%. thus it has less crystals, resulting in less production.
If you do have it checked, you do buy that little crystals and it does run at 100%.
Hope thats better.
If you dont have the tickbox checked, you're not buying in that few crystals to make the SPP produce at 100%. thus it has less crystals, resulting in less production.
If you do have it checked, you do buy that little crystals and it does run at 100%.
Hope thats better
.The devious part of the SPP is that its cycle time is 1:58. Two seconds short from two minutes. And let say the SPP consumes 2 Crystals per cycle. From those Crystals, you get 276 ECells. Crystal Fab basically makes 2 Crystals in ... tadaa 2 minutes.
So, one Crystal per minute. Converted by SPP into 138 ECells in 59 seconds. If there are no more Crystals, the SPP has to wait at least one second. Thus, it effectively produces 138 ECells in 60 seconds.
If you do add more Crystals, the SPP will run non-stop. You will get 60/59*138 = about 140 ECells per minute. Buying the Crystals for SPP M, you would thus get about 561 ECells more per hour.
The calculator assumes "steady state". If you have surplus production of say Silicon, that means that the Silicon stock of the complex is assumed to be full. When it is full, the Mine has to stop occasionally, because there is no room for product. No production means no consumption. But if you sell that stock, there will be no slowdowns, and thus the Mine will run non-stop.
When you have just build a complex, it is practically never in "steady state".
So, one Crystal per minute. Converted by SPP into 138 ECells in 59 seconds. If there are no more Crystals, the SPP has to wait at least one second. Thus, it effectively produces 138 ECells in 60 seconds.
If you do add more Crystals, the SPP will run non-stop. You will get 60/59*138 = about 140 ECells per minute. Buying the Crystals for SPP M, you would thus get about 561 ECells more per hour.
The calculator assumes "steady state". If you have surplus production of say Silicon, that means that the Silicon stock of the complex is assumed to be full. When it is full, the Mine has to stop occasionally, because there is no room for product. No production means no consumption. But if you sell that stock, there will be no slowdowns, and thus the Mine will run non-stop.
When you have just build a complex, it is practically never in "steady state".
I think I get it. Without the checkbox ticked I'm slightly short of crystals, so the SPPs not working at 100%, and I have an excess of silicon so the mine doesn't work at 100% either once it's full. However with it ticked and the extra crystals available the complex is producing 3000 less e-cells, not more as I'd expect. However because it's selling off the excess silicon the mine is now working at 100% ad using more e-cells. Right?
I dread to think how much hassle you must have had working out that sheet if it was all this complicated
I dread to think how much hassle you must have had working out that sheet if it was all this complicated
![[ external image ]](http://www.Exogenesis.co.uk/AutoFill.jpg){kind=link}
Merroc thats a really great piece of work uve done there..i havent started with complexes; only built my first wheat farm in the wall as the manual suggested and wondered if it was draining resources as i put in 500,000 credits and it went down as far as 367,986. Changed the prices to 13 to buy ecells and 30 to sell wheat and it seems to be working, still up n down but is higher now.
Ur calculator even helps newb entrepreneurs with a single factory. Its all a bit complicated, but nice explanation at the start of the thread.
Top stuff.
Ur calculator even helps newb entrepreneurs with a single factory. Its all a bit complicated, but nice explanation at the start of the thread.
Top stuff.