Forget Khaak and Xenon, the wife is the biggest threat to my Empire

General discussions about the games by Egosoft including X-BTF, XT, X², X³: Reunion, X³: Terran Conflict and X³: Albion Prelude.

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Tymi
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Post by Tymi » Tue, 10. Jan 06, 14:17

Wow, who'd have thought a quick post bitchin' about my wife eating into my game time would have built into a discussion about Jungian psycology, Myers-Briggs personality types and the physics of the brain!
"Bother!" said Pooh, as the FBI sniper shot Kanga.

G Morgan
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Post by G Morgan » Tue, 10. Jan 06, 16:57

Kurios Kronou wrote:
camp3r wrote:Ah man, you guys have it pretty lucky.

I would (half gladly) give up X3 for a girlfriend. I only wish I had the skill to get one. :cry: Damn. Then again, getting a girlfriend can't be nearly as difficult as gaining the race rep needed to buy a freaking Paranid Zeus. :evil:
I am sure that a Meyers-Briggs course could help you there too!

As Twelvefield pointed out, it does not give you a solution but gives you a vocabulary to use - then at least you can appear understanding and empathetic!

BTW, what's the bets that if G Morgan did the test the result would be Extorverted Sensate Thinking Judging (ESTJ for short)...!?

[G Morgan, please Google the result and check it out if you feel offended, that is not my intention :wink: ]
Tryed Googling it but all the results were of people other people considered ESTJ rather than telling me what it is. Considering the fact that I didn't know any of the people mentioned and attempt to avoid relativism whenever possible (obviously not including GR but thats different to relativism in terms of description of character traits) I would prefer a site which gives terminology rather than one that tells me Harry Truman was a ESTJ.

Anyway (while I still contend that an abstract field based on a complex and little understood model can have only limited scope and usually will only include things you already know yourself) if anyone has a link to a decent site on the topic I'd be grateful.

EDIT- I've just found and done an online test. However it basically asked the same 7 question set about 10 times worded differently. I ascribe this particular test (if not the theory in general) to have the value of Astrology. You certainly can't tell much from essentially 7 questions. Didn't come out ESTJ though and most of the characteristics were moderate rather than any strong inclination to a strong trait.

bvschipper
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Psychological Testing

Post by bvschipper » Tue, 10. Jan 06, 19:31

G Morgan,

These types of tests are not available online. To have access and administer this type of test requires being licensed or credentialed to do so. Psychology is indeed a science (defined by the adherence or disregard for the "Scientific Method"), but is certainly misapplied by self-help gurus and pop culture.

Interesting fact: On the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI) there is a question that is a good predictor of depression, it reads "I like to tease animals" (yes, I know that is not a question). If you answer "Yes" you are apparently not depressed. Accordingly, if you answer "No" you may want to consult your psychiatrist.

Psychology can be funny... poor little Albert!

Regards,
Brad

G Morgan
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Post by G Morgan » Tue, 10. Jan 06, 19:43

Surely the definition of Science is a practice that produces theories based upon testable principles using evidence from repeatable experiments. Fail to see any of this in most fields that consider themselves science (in fact very little Biology actually follows this path with more exceptions than rules in most cases).

If this isn't the definition of Science (being a Physicist I would claim that it is) then Science itself is irrelevant because the first sentence of this post is entirely the reason Science has credibility. Its testability, self criticism and the ability to change that makes Science so robust but it also needs to do this following a set pattern.

Establishing what happens is simple phenomonolgy its when you start to get into reasons why which tie many phenomonons together that it becomes science (so that you can apply Occams Razor, another cornerstone of science).

Not to say that there isn't use for non-scientific fields (by my definition) but I get very touchy when some things get called science with little or no evidence when Physicists need mountains of figures before their ideas are usually considered (mainly because any good theory would produce mountains of evidence).

Master Merchant
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Post by Master Merchant » Tue, 10. Jan 06, 19:56

I'm wondering how many of your wives are reading this forum and finding out about your little games 8) .

Also as far as that 2:1 ratio for people-person versus isolationalist. I gain stregnth in both I can interact with people (though I still can't tell a girl how i feel because i'm too GD bashful..that and i swear once too often for my liking) though i can (and have) gone hours without interaction.

Records (Timed via nearest time-telling insterment)
Doom 3 18 hours (3 rest stops)
AoE 2 19 hours 2 minutes.
X3 Record 12 hours (then got took a break to tell my family Happy New Years)
Doom 2 25 hours (I'm never gonna be able to do that again [done at age 8 on a sunday/monday then going to school] wasn't good idea)

And I look back and wonder...if I had gotten a GF how my time would have changed....and what game I'd start her with...
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Kurios Kronou
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Post by Kurios Kronou » Tue, 10. Jan 06, 21:00

G Morgan wrote: Tryed Googling it but all the results were of people other people considered ESTJ rather than telling me what it is. Considering the fact that I didn't know any of the people mentioned and attempt to avoid relativism whenever possible (obviously not including GR but thats different to relativism in terms of description of character traits) I would prefer a site which gives terminology rather than one that tells me Harry Truman was a ESTJ.

Anyway (while I still contend that an abstract field based on a complex and little understood model can have only limited scope and usually will only include things you already know yourself) if anyone has a link to a decent site on the topic I'd be grateful.

EDIT- I've just found and done an online test. However it basically asked the same 7 question set about 10 times worded differently. I ascribe this particular test (if not the theory in general) to have the value of Astrology. You certainly can't tell much from essentially 7 questions. Didn't come out ESTJ though and most of the characteristics were moderate rather than any strong inclination to a strong trait.
Well done for trying to find out. Most folk wouldn't bother.

I am sorry the test you did was a bit pants - the questions can be a bit repetitive, but should not be so much as you'd really notice. The point of the questions is to expose the subtle shifts in response - sometimes it is better to look at the definitions and see how well they describe your preferences. The key work here is preferences, not classifications...but more on that later.

My ESTJ comment was a bit tongue in cheek, actually (as, for the record, was my comment to camp3r). There is no way I can know that, as I don't know you well enough (obviously). ESTJ folk (if I remember correctly) typically have little time for this kind of apparently subjective, naval gazing stuff .

Gosh, I could go on for ages, but I won't. Two things I do want to say though:

First, anyone with a healthy suspicion of 'personality typing' is quite justified in being so. As has been said, there is a lot of garbage out there (most of which comes as corporate training courses) - way to simplistic, unhealthy and damaging to folk forced to do it. MBTI (and I suspect a few others) doesn't fall into that category. While it is true that Jung's theories were just theories, with an almost insignificant amount of genuine research, MBTI is a well manages application of his thinking. It (seemingly) has an enormous research base, which is tightly controlled in order to ensure its accuracy (hence the difficulty in getting hold of a proper test). Also, it is not 'science' by your definition - its is more akin to statistical research.

Secondly, the 'classifications' are more descriptions of preference, and they exist on a continuum. There are four sets of dipoles: Extrovert-Introvert, Sensate-Intuition, Thinking-Feeling, Perceiving-Judging (the last one is poorly named in my view, as it is confusing). As AndySonOfBob rightly points out, there are not just sixteen classes of people, but each person can describe their preferred behaviour (which, of course may vary with context - work or home, for example) as lying at some point along each of these four dipoles.

The brain is a complex thing, as is the personality of the individual. They can be modelled and analysed, but never fully understood. Any decent psychologist or councillor would tell you that. MBTI is an attempt to understand why and how we are different, and how we can relate together with better understanding.

Anyway, here are some web sites to look at:

http://www.myersbriggs.org/ - Smiley faces and the usual corporate stuff.

http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/tt/t-ar ... -simpl.htm - Some helpful definitions (including ESTJ etc.)

http://skepdic.com/myersb.html - A sceptical view of MBTI. Healthy to have the other point of view and, after a brief read though, this one seems well argued.

Enjoy!

G Morgan
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Post by G Morgan » Wed, 11. Jan 06, 00:04

I think scepticism is one of the most healthy things there is as long as it is well argued and not simply the denial of something because of belief rather than through thought.

Personally I'm sceptical of a lot of things including much in what I'd consider my own field/s. I have a tendancy to need to understand almost everything to a greater degree and sometimes that can annoy people because I argue on occassion with people in their field (had a great argument with a doctor about CT scans before but as a physicist I suppose I probably knew more about the effect of radiation than he knew specialisation in the medical field being what it is).

I find its important to understand, in any topic, whether you are dealing with an expert or somebody with just enough lingo to convince the layman. The only way I will trust most experts is in their methodology, usually if they talk for a bit and you ask a question and they refuse to give you an answer that isn't direct (or pretend to be indignant about it, what would you know sort of thing) you can usually guarrentee the guys talking nonsense. Best example, head down to a non PC dedicated electronic shop (Comet in the UK) and try to talk to one of their guys about computers, had a hard time trying to find out if comet had an IDE ribbon cable on sale once.

Anyway we've come a long way from the start of this post. So to tie that in, if I was a girl (will probably do this the other way around, go on the offensive so to speak) and I asked a bloke how he feels about commitment/marriage I'd want details. A person who has thought about a topic for only 30 minutes will usually have a whole list of questions and answers. If you get a blank stare at that point it likely says it all.

Twelvefield
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Post by Twelvefield » Wed, 11. Jan 06, 01:16

I don't know about that. I'm more of the "journey is it's own reward" camp, and so is Mrs. Twelvefield. If I have to ask those kind of questions expecting answers, or if I feel compelled to make those kind of answers in a relationship, then either I am doing something wrong, or I am about to step on a Relationship Land Mine (tm). That's not to say that finding out about your partner's relationship goals isn't important, because it's crucial, I just feel that the way to those answers is through the process of the relationship, and not a product of it.

I'm not saying I'm right/you're wrong here. Just that my system is different from yours, and I wouldn't have the first idea on how to make your system work for me, at least in the long run.

Of course, in the short run, there's lot's of sure-fire formulae for success: to get her attention: try booze (in moderation), lots of good open-ended questions, and the occasional non-extravagant reasonably creative cute gift. Work out regularly, too. To get his attention: Find out his name, or look at him from across a crowded room, or simply more or less continue to live in the same national region as he does. Short skirts are nice, and so is booze (in moderation). Do stuff like that, and you don't need to worry too much about the mechanics of the relationship for at least the initial phase.

G Morgan
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Post by G Morgan » Wed, 11. Jan 06, 01:33

Twelvefield wrote:Work out regularly, too. To get his attention: Find out his name, or look at him from across a crowded room, or simply more or less continue to live in the same national region as he does. Short skirts are nice, and so is booze (in moderation). Do stuff like that, and you don't need to worry too much about the mechanics of the relationship for at least the initial phase.
Grrrr, had intended this year. The biggest crime in my life is how 7 years playing rugby has counted for naught because last year I did so little exercise it wasn't even funny, my waist is 6 inches larger than it was this time last year and its annoying. Anyway had planned on training regularly but my training partners fiance become pregnant again (this is what stopped me last year, overactive womb) and thats scuppered until I can find a new training partner. Would probably train if I asked him but he gets into enough trouble as it is.

Amazing thing is out of 16 people who have trained regularly with me at some point in my life no-one is available (half have g/f's who pressurise them out of spending time with anything that looks like a friend) to ensure I don't drop a 175kg bar on my chest. So its going to be a massive search finding somebody both strong enough to keep up, free and interested in helping me shed about a million pounds.

Agree about the comparison between how to get involved as a girl and as a boy. Girl: walk into the room, Boy: cripple yourself through massive amounts of exercise then you may have a small chance.

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Kurios Kronou
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Post by Kurios Kronou » Wed, 11. Jan 06, 01:54

G Morgan wrote:
Twelvefield wrote:Work out regularly, too.
Grrrr, had intended this year. The biggest crime in my life is how 7 years playing rugby has counted for naught because last year I did so little exercise it wasn't even funny, my waist is 6 inches larger than it was this time last year and its annoying.
Ha! my waist size went up dramatically when I turned 30. Nothing to do with diet, exercise, stuff like that - it was just age. Now I am nearing 40 I am hoping I don't end up like Homer Simpson...!
G Morgan wrote: Agree about the comparison between how to get involved as a girl and as a boy. Girl: walk into the room, Boy: cripple yourself through massive amounts of exercise then you may have a small chance.
How to write a successful dating website:
1. Get a list of girls on a database - preferably pretty - but then there is no accounting for taste!
2. Attract more girls with community issues (like celeb gossip, clothes , shoes, etc...)
3. use a pink colour scheme, with lots of hearts and other tat.
4. The blokes just come in, 'cause that is where the women are!

I used to own a software company developing sites for folk, and the number of business plans for dating sites that ran (roughly) on those lines was, well...shocking!

See, human nature - big complex thinking organ controlled by gonads. :roll:

G Morgan
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Post by G Morgan » Wed, 11. Jan 06, 02:00

I know a girl who uses one (Meetic I believe its called). The site works on a basic premise, Men pay the girls don't. Result (at least theoretically) huge Female population and limited Male population meaning the ones that pay are always likely to find what they want. Of course none of this takes into account theres a perfectly good pub/club etc down the road and that there are free sites/services on the web that do something similar. Not to mention that the girls are likely to be annoyed that there are not enough men on the site to make it effective for them.

SMDutro
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Post by SMDutro » Sat, 18. Mar 06, 18:47

So is she your wife or your mother? it sounds to me as if you have a BAD case of the PW syndrome. Play the game

beach07
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Post by beach07 » Sat, 18. Mar 06, 18:58

Al wrote:Best advice I can give is develop insomnia. Gave me 11 years of having plenty of time for girlfriends, pub and gaming.....its amazing how short your day is when the you sleep for 9 hours.

Makes me think I'm missing out on stuff these days ;)

Al

Could you REALLY develop that? that wud be awesome!!!

The Rogue Trader
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Post by The Rogue Trader » Tue, 21. Mar 06, 00:38

I took my copy to work and loaded it there. Now instaed of doing foot patrols at my place of work I play X3 and watch the cctv monitors. (I'm a security guard so a twelve hour shift consists of almost 12 hours of uninterrupted X3).

JMCorp
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Post by JMCorp » Tue, 21. Mar 06, 01:36

apricotslice wrote:Try to get her to develop her own interests that take her out of the house for an entire and very late evening. Especially interests where you will not be welcome at.
yeah, like hanging out at her best friend's house screwing around with the horse hung guy that lives upstairs!

trust me on this one, she's more important than the game. but if you must game, get her a computer and hooked on games like ESD did :) my ex likes the sims and AoE 2. she hated the computer while we were together.

and just FYI, it is possible to spend too much time on the computer.

JMCorp
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Post by JMCorp » Tue, 21. Mar 06, 01:42

andysonofbob wrote:Easily the most constructive post so far

Try this: hopefully you and your misses are still on friendly, kissing (pecking at leat) terms…

Buy/borrow/steal a dvd box set, something that you like, but she likes more.

Hopefully the tv is in the same room as your pc

Now tell her that you are helping someone by Beta testing his mod and apologise for being such a geek/nerd and say ‘I hope you dont mind but it’s the two nights when we only mong and I will not be more than 3 m from you. If she is not 100% self centred she should just ‘tut’ and let you get on with.

Very important bit! She will not let you do this for long so take the following

Not long after she has started watching the DVD (we are talking a couple of minutes here) make a ‘bloody idiot!!’ gesture and curse mildly at how annoying the 'mod' is. Now quickly get up and randomly peck your misses on the cheek and get back to the game now that you feel better after this quick peek. This tells the misses that she is in the forefront of your mind and you aren’t really enjoying the game; it’s more of a chore and hey, she has always known you’re a bit of a geek etc.

Also make sure that you half watch the DVD (which is very possible with X3) so you can now and again make some comment on it so as far as she is concerned you are just sitting in a different place than normal

**************
Another general woman tip I find works a treat.
When she asks you what she should wear e.g. boots: Say that looks nice, what else were you thinking of? Let her try on the next pair. When she shows you say ‘nice, but I think I prefer the first pair.’ This lets her think that she was right first time which was obviously her first choice. She also gets to try on another pair and get complemented.
********
I hope this helps my friend and fellow brothers

Andy
QFT

OzK
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Post by OzK » Tue, 21. Mar 06, 09:01

If she is the bright, inquiring type, like my wife, my money is on Myst. :D

Yeah, it's older, but it's eye-catching, requires thought, and doesn't require "twitch." It's also addictive as hell.

She was clear on the gamer thing before we got married. She even understands how annoyed I used to get with my ex when she pestered me during my rare hours of gaming.

Still, she is beginning to find lots of things that require comment as she walks by the loft we use as an office. This is a BAD SIGN. :o

So I got her Myst the other day remembering my absorbtion with it. I sure hope this is gonna work. :P
"I'll kill a man in a fair fight, or if I think he's going to start a fair fight. Or if there's a woman. Or if I'm getting paid... mostly if I'm getting paid." -Jayne Cobb: Serenity

Doomdark64
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Post by Doomdark64 » Tue, 21. Mar 06, 09:06

Guess im lucky cause my wife uses her pc a lot to play wow,so she doesn`t mind me playing x3.

Regards

Doomdark

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Wundagore
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Post by Wundagore » Tue, 21. Mar 06, 10:43

here is my guide to woman handling 101

My girlfriend didn't really understand video gaming, that was for kids
we have been going for 2 years now and now she kicks my ass at Empire at War

she was a huge star wars fan and didn't know about the games
and whenever I want gametime I just make sure that the house is clean , dinner is ready and then ... well u figure this one out and after that she just lays on the couche watching some cheesy movie like moulin rouge

( off topic: anyone seen this ? I mean Come on! )
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[quote = "apricotslice"] The generation of random numbers is far too important to be left to chance! [/quote]

Tigerhawk71
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Post by Tigerhawk71 » Tue, 21. Mar 06, 12:19

My girlfriend and I have seperate computers, i'm not married to her yet but she takes an active interest in videogames, and often watches the guys play, like, Halo or whatever. :lol: But she won't play. I guess she feels weird since she's 15 years older than i am and still likes the stuff i do. (I'm 20)

I just need to make sure i'm giving her the "Us Time" she wants, do something nice once in a while, encourage her to sleep when she feels tired or sick, under the excuse it's in her best interest (and it is, just so happens it's sometimes mine too)... and i can do as i please :D
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