more help factories x3ap

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Gandalf The White
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more help factories x3ap

Post by Gandalf The White » Wed, 20. Feb 19, 21:20

hi all,

ok for some this is going to be a really weird request.

i'm having trouble pricing my factories so they can successfully make a profit. i cannot read the factory information on screen so i've been trying other ways to get the information. none i have found so far have been easily understandable or accessible for my text to speech screen reader NVDA to read.
i know there's a calculator about but it doesn't seem to work for me either.
i'm wondering, if some person could help me with this. if someone was to make a basic excel sheet that displayed each factory type going down the left, resources amounts required for 1 cycle and also prices of set resources etc along the top, with formulas allowing me to change the prices of each resource both the resource/end product i'm selling and the resources required to manufacture.

i know this is asking quite a bit of someone but if someone could put something like that together for me then that would make things that much easier.

thanks everyone.
some who deserve life receive death. Others who deserve death receive life. Can you give it to them? Don't be eager to deal out death in judgement, for not even the wise can see all ends.

Gandalf The White
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Re: more help factories x3ap

Post by Gandalf The White » Thu, 21. Feb 19, 16:54

ok so i've tried various things including https://poisonedparanid.com/storage/mirrors/x3apocc/but i can't get this to work at all. not with my screen reader. i need something that is simpler to use. can anybody help me?
some who deserve life receive death. Others who deserve death receive life. Can you give it to them? Don't be eager to deal out death in judgement, for not even the wise can see all ends.

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ZacUK
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Re: more help factories x3ap

Post by ZacUK » Thu, 21. Feb 19, 17:03

Would perhaps your screen reader be able to interpret Xadrian ?

It's a complex calculator tool written in Java that you can install locally on your PC.

Otherwise i'm sure someone more skilled than I could pull the data out of the game files surely?

What about writing a mail to Egosoft to see if they can help?

Gandalf The White
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Re: more help factories x3ap

Post by Gandalf The White » Fri, 22. Feb 19, 12:49

yeah i tried downloading that programme i installed it but it won't run for some reason.
some who deserve life receive death. Others who deserve death receive life. Can you give it to them? Don't be eager to deal out death in judgement, for not even the wise can see all ends.

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nponoBegHuk
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Re: more help factories x3ap

Post by nponoBegHuk » Fri, 22. Feb 19, 13:35

I have what you need for TC, however, it might need some tweaking for AP. Will probably need a day or two to add everything. Let me double check here, are you interested in single-station factories or in complex production? I will prepare it for you but if you want a quicker response tell me exactly what factory or complex you're trying to tweak, and I'll provide the data.

Try using your screen reader on this web resource. It should work really well. https://x3ap-eng.x3tc.net/x3_albion_prelude_factories/ You can type in text where it says "Type factory name" to filter the list, and the dropdown next to it allows you to toggle between displaying stations you can buy or even include NPC-only stations. After clicking on a certain station, it displays all the station properties in a table-like layout. There is a mistake you have to be aware of, though, when it reads "number of production per hour", it is actually "number of production per cycle". Actual production per hour is stated just below, where it says "production per hour" - without the words "number of". I will try to contact the page owner so he can fix the mistake. The data is arranged in following manner - in the top section you have details like cycle time displayed in following manner - hours colon minutes colon seconds. Below general factory properties section you will have an overview of the product, below the line where it says "Production", including products per cycle (it says number of production per hour but it's a typo, just like above, it's actually per cycle), minimum and maximum prices. Below the product description section you will have similar data on each of the resources needed.

If you're interested in complex building, it's actually much, much easier than it seems. At least the planning part. However there is no good guide on this forums on that topic. I've been actually preparing a guide of my own, constantly delayed by the fact the game is over 10 years old and fearing no one would read it. If you're interested, I'll make a text-only version of it and share it. This would take some time, though, since the data i've been working with is for TC, would need to double check everything for AP.

Anyway, tell me what you think, I'll try to help.
Fast sector selection on the Universe Map | Rock locations for Mobile/OOS mining | Botting for max speed Hyperion | Complete list of ship sources | Capturing smaller ships

My current ship collection:
11 out of 11 *retired* ships found
17 out of 17 *unique* ships found
9 out of 9 *limited* ships found
16 out of 16 *rare* ships found

AleksMain
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Re: more help factories x3ap

Post by AleksMain » Fri, 22. Feb 19, 15:19

Gandalf The White wrote:
Wed, 20. Feb 19, 21:20
...

ok for some this is going to be a really weird request.

i'm having trouble pricing my factories so they can successfully make a profit. i cannot read the factory information on screen so i've been trying other ways to get the information. none i have found so far have been easily understandable or accessible for my text to speech screen reader NVDA to read.
i know there's a calculator about but it doesn't seem to work for me either.
...
thanks everyone.
I think, that you can use following Complex Construction Guide.

There you can see https://joelbfant.bitbucket.io/x3/x3apocc.html as an online complex calculator.

Gandalf The White
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Re: more help factories x3ap

Post by Gandalf The White » Fri, 22. Feb 19, 20:33

that's cool but how do you then work out how much to set your factory prices up for then? it's mentioning factory cycle times, price spending per cycle, where is it showing how many resources it's using per cycle to create 1 cycle of end product for example. what prices is it using to display how much you need to make profits etc. it is usable i just don't entirely understand how the info is presented.
well for now i'm trying to simply buy factories place them and make sure they can run themselves. by that i mean price things up so they can buy and sell easily enough.
some who deserve life receive death. Others who deserve death receive life. Can you give it to them? Don't be eager to deal out death in judgement, for not even the wise can see all ends.

AleksMain
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Re: more help factories x3ap

Post by AleksMain » Sat, 23. Feb 19, 07:08

Gandalf The White wrote:
Fri, 22. Feb 19, 20:33
that's cool but how do you then work out how much to set your factory prices up for then? it's mentioning factory cycle times, price spending per cycle, where is it showing how many resources it's using per cycle to create 1 cycle of end product for example. what prices is it using to display how much you need to make profits etc. it is usable i just don't entirely understand how the info is presented.
well for now i'm trying to simply buy factories place them and make sure they can run themselves. by that i mean price things up so they can buy and sell easily enough.
To be 100% sure, that you are able to sell product, produce some weapon.

You can sell any amount of any weapon in the Terracorp HQ in Home of Light (prices there are average always).

Above information about stations and complexes can be used to create self sustaining complexes.

If you will be able to create such complex, then you need one TS (transport ship) only to sell produced weapon manually.


Here is example of my own complex, producing missiles for my M7M Cobra (you can sell these missiles, if you don't need them in the any Equipment Dock or in the Terracorp HQ):
AleksMain wrote:
Wed, 18. Jan 17, 21:06
...
About complex itself:

built in the Antigone Memorial sector,

2 Silicon Mines L built on asteroids 61 yield
1 Silicon Mines L built on asteroids 26 yield

1 Ore Mine L built on asteroids 91 yield

8 Cattle Ranch L

8 Cahoona Bakery L


5 Crystal Fab L

2 Solar Power Plants XL
1 Solar Power Plant L



10 Flail Missile Production Facility

4 Hammer Torpedo Fabrication Facility

Production speed: 1 Flail Barrage Missile per minute and 16 Hammer Heavy Torpedoes per hour
...
You can create something less than above complex, of course.


For those, who can see images, here is another example:
AleksMain wrote:
Tue, 1. Mar 16, 07:48
...
Here is screenshot
http://i.imgur.com/cKZ5NXB.png
of such complex.
...
and yet another one
AleksMain wrote:
Tue, 19. Jul 16, 16:56
...
I had built such complex in Elena's Fortune.

I can post screenshots:

Below you can see Products and some intermediate products of complex
http://i.imgur.com/9fiTKvr.jpg
As you see above complex has 1,160,000 Energy cells capacity and some of Solar Power Plants are idle, since it produce more, than necessary Energy Cells. I can use products any time to refuel my ships or to equip my Cobra with missiles (it is one of the SSC complexes)

Below is Sector view with complex. It is far from each gates and any Pirate (see screenshot) will not see it in his scanner.
http://i.imgur.com/icm3OCx.jpg

I had moved ALL Silicon Asteroids with yield 25+ and added to my complex.

I never build complexes near gates or factories.

Complex in Elena's Fortune had not been attacked even once, although Pirates are always enemies for me.

P.S,
Since almost every mission give me new capital ships, boarded by my own marines, then I use Mammoths to store weapons and shields of boarded ships. Sometimes I sell it in Equipment Dock (can be used HQ in Home of Light too) without any limits.
Some weapons (PPC) produced and produce my first SSC.
I have dozens of battle capital ships, but use them for my missions only.

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Red-Spot
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Re: more help factories x3ap

Post by Red-Spot » Tue, 26. Feb 19, 13:03

Gandalf The White wrote:
Fri, 22. Feb 19, 12:49
yeah i tried downloading that programme i installed it but it won't run for some reason.
You need Java for it to work, did not have that either since I no longer tend to use IE :)
'Ignoramus et ignorabimus'

Gandalf The White
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Re: more help factories x3ap

Post by Gandalf The White » Wed, 27. Feb 19, 13:45

nore do i, i use crome these days. so java isn't something i would be downloading anytime soon.
some who deserve life receive death. Others who deserve death receive life. Can you give it to them? Don't be eager to deal out death in judgement, for not even the wise can see all ends.

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Red-Spot
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Re: more help factories x3ap

Post by Red-Spot » Thu, 28. Feb 19, 08:01

This proggy is worth it though. It is good and easy to use and maybe the only one left that is updated with L-size crystal fabs which others seem to lack or sunpower is not correctly calculated. This one seems to have it all correct :)
'Ignoramus et ignorabimus'

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nponoBegHuk
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Re: more help factories x3ap

Post by nponoBegHuk » Thu, 28. Feb 19, 22:40

Red-Spot wrote:
Thu, 28. Feb 19, 08:01
This proggy is worth it though. It is good and easy to use and maybe the only one left that is updated with L-size crystal fabs which others seem to lack or sunpower is not correctly calculated. This one seems to have it all correct :)
Apologies for hijacking the thread. Just wanted to mention Xadrian is good but not flawless.

Pros: Cons:
  • Add support complex algorithm is far from perfect and most of the time adds more factories than needed. Unfortunately there is no publicly available tool that handles this well enough to count.
  • adding factories is very slow. Factory Complex Calculator is way quicker.
  • Handling of the situations where some factories are not running at 100% by design (such as SPP partially starved on crystals or mines over/underproducing) is also far from perfect. But again, no alternative is available.
  • No way of simulating your complex production before actually building it. Factory Complex Calculator is still king.
Personally I use an excel spreadsheet I developed in a few hours for all my complex building needs. Any complex you might want in under a minute - select a sector, sheet displays how many factories you can build with available ore/silicon, make your selection, get correct number/size for all fabs. With ability to copy to Factory Complex Calculator to simulate production.

The sheet is way too crude to release publicly at this point. If there is interest I might tidy it up and publish. I might need to post an actual guide to factories/complexes first. The ones listed in resources compendium are way too vague on some of the important points, and might lead to a lot of confusion on the matter, in my opinion, while personally I find it very straightforward once you know a number of key concepts.

If you have interest, make me know and I'll see what I can do.

Regards,
nponoBegHuk.
Fast sector selection on the Universe Map | Rock locations for Mobile/OOS mining | Botting for max speed Hyperion | Complete list of ship sources | Capturing smaller ships

My current ship collection:
11 out of 11 *retired* ships found
17 out of 17 *unique* ships found
9 out of 9 *limited* ships found
16 out of 16 *rare* ships found

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Red-Spot
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Re: more help factories x3ap

Post by Red-Spot » Fri, 1. Mar 19, 10:58

nponoBegHuk wrote:
Thu, 28. Feb 19, 22:40
Red-Spot wrote:
Thu, 28. Feb 19, 08:01
This proggy is worth it though. It is good and easy to use and maybe the only one left that is updated with L-size crystal fabs which others seem to lack or sunpower is not correctly calculated. This one seems to have it all correct :)
Apologies for hijacking the thread. Just wanted to mention Xadrian is good but not flawless.
Point taken. It is very easy in its use though. Tried several tools and am still 'personally' convinced Xadrian is the most comfortable of the bunch while being 'proper'.
Specially if baked up by an excel sheet 4 tabs large that 'recalculates' my entire empire and keeps track of it all for me, including every trader and its settings :)

In short, Xadrian is very good up until the point that less than a percent imbalance is not an issue :)
(and yes, the 'calculate support' part is kinda crap)
'Ignoramus et ignorabimus'

Gandalf The White
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Re: more help factories x3ap

Post by Gandalf The White » Mon, 4. Mar 19, 21:01

yeah i just can't get the stupid thing to run like i say.
some who deserve life receive death. Others who deserve death receive life. Can you give it to them? Don't be eager to deal out death in judgement, for not even the wise can see all ends.

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