Terran start difficulty spike

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csaba
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Terran start difficulty spike

Post by csaba » Wed, 7. Sep 22, 21:21

I just restarted as the Terran Protectorate. The starting scout isn't really enough to progress the Terran missions anymore. Back when Cradle dropped it was much easier, I barely noticed any difficulty up until the very end of the mission chain, now you have to avoid combat like the plague otherwise you are quickly overwhelmed.

The increased ship density from Savage Spur doesn't help either, the "unprotected" Xenon S ships had 3 Moreyas and 2 Kuraokamis next to them.

The way how enemy fighters now chase you with Travel drive also makes it hard, cause destroying the 2 miners takes a while in a scout so you're bound to have a few Ms ruining your party. Simply passing the patrol as your wingman suggests has them turn around and in your back before you can take out the first target.
I had to elaborately draw away fighters from region to even progress.

This wouldn't be an issue if the optional upgrade mission beforehand involved getting you a whole better ship, as it stands even a fully upgraded Kukri has no chance of survival in the intended direct approach. Heck a beginner would even find a Katana challenging if the player is not careful and draws in too many fighters.

This doesn't give me much of a headache, a mild annoyance really as I'm aware of the AI's nuances, but a new player just rolling the Terran character to try out the game is in for a rude awakening.

dtpsprt
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Re: Terran start difficulty spike

Post by dtpsprt » Wed, 7. Sep 22, 22:24

csaba wrote:
Wed, 7. Sep 22, 21:21
........................
This doesn't give me much of a headache, a mild annoyance really as I'm aware of the AI's nuances, but a new player just rolling the Terran character to try out the game is in for a rude awakening.
This is why these gasmestarts are active only when you have the corresponding DLC enabled. As a general rule of thumb the main game is for everyone and the DLC's are for "advanced" players with better understanding of what is going on and/or going to happen.

Unfortunately many people forget this and try their first start with a DLC one...

Alan Phipps
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Re: Terran start difficulty spike

Post by Alan Phipps » Thu, 8. Sep 22, 10:50

It is usual for a gamestart description to state a comparative difficulty level. Is that not the case with this one?
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Re: Terran start difficulty spike

Post by Gimbutz » Fri, 9. Sep 22, 14:18

Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

Imperial Good
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Re: Terran start difficulty spike

Post by Imperial Good » Fri, 9. Sep 22, 19:55

For people doing this start, a tip I was given on Discord was to use Laser Tower Mk1s in the fights.

NPCs issue an implicit attack towards whoever has most recently hit them and since Laser Towers are highly accurate, they reliably agro enemies away from the player. If enough are deployed the enemies end up forced to constantly take evasive action which leaves the player free to shoot them from behind. After the fight is over all surviving Laser Towers can be collected for redepolyment.

This will help if you need to fight small fleets of ships, like 4-5 Xenon S class ships. It will not help during the massive station fight sequence, but as long as the player survives the scripted reinforcements should save them.

csaba
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Re: Terran start difficulty spike

Post by csaba » Sat, 10. Sep 22, 10:47

Alan Phipps wrote:
Thu, 8. Sep 22, 10:50
It is usual for a gamestart description to state a comparative difficulty level. Is that not the case with this one?
I can't seem to find any indicator or I'm just oblivious to it. Difficulty is also rather relative in this game. You could fly around and ignore the main missions pretty much indefinitely, up until you show up in a fully kitted Asgard plus carrier escorts. The issue is new players who instinctively follow the main story instead of us X veterans bringing a bazooka to a knife fight.

Shih pilot "Stay out of this runner or I'll make sure everyone will hunt you in Syndicate space"
Terran fleet admiral "Ohoho! Free real estate!"
dtpsprt wrote:
Wed, 7. Sep 22, 22:24

This is why these gasmestarts are active only when you have the corresponding DLC enabled. As a general rule of thumb the main game is for everyone and the DLC's are for "advanced" players with better understanding of what is going on and/or going to happen.

Unfortunately many people forget this and try their first start with a DLC one...
This is a bad argument. I get a lot of my games from having them in Steam whishlist and watching out for sales, that way you can get -50% or even bigger discounts for whole bundles. (I have lots of Paradox DLCs to go through...) I can easily see someone snagging up X4 and all of it's DLCs for a discount right before the newest expansion drops, just too look through the starts and picking Terrans as they are quite universally recognizable.

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grapedog
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Re: Terran start difficulty spike

Post by grapedog » Mon, 12. Sep 22, 16:40

dtpsprt wrote:
Wed, 7. Sep 22, 22:24


This is why these gasmestarts are active only when you have the corresponding DLC enabled. As a general rule of thumb the main game is for everyone and the DLC's are for "advanced" players with better understanding of what is going on and/or going to happen.
I'm gonna have to disagree with this point... the Terran DLC has probably the best overall beginner tutorial for new players. It also starts players out with a mostly clear path in which to take, and it is in by far the safest set of sectors in the entire game. Young gun just plops you into the universe and wishes you luck... you could go like one sector away and find an I and multiple K's, plus all the M/S ships destroying everything in Hatikvahs Choice. And that's just one sector away.

The Terran start is plenty friendly for new players.

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Re: Terran start difficulty spike

Post by EGO_Aut » Mon, 12. Sep 22, 17:43

I have done it in a Chimera, better kite do not dogfight.

While the Yaki is talking, you can shoot on his Kurikami - he starts fighting after his speech :D Good to have a save befor this.
Last edited by EGO_Aut on Sun, 25. Sep 22, 14:15, edited 1 time in total.

dtpsprt
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Re: Terran start difficulty spike

Post by dtpsprt » Mon, 12. Sep 22, 21:42

grapedog wrote:
Mon, 12. Sep 22, 16:40
dtpsprt wrote:
Wed, 7. Sep 22, 22:24


This is why these gasmestarts are active only when you have the corresponding DLC enabled. As a general rule of thumb the main game is for everyone and the DLC's are for "advanced" players with better understanding of what is going on and/or going to happen.
I'm gonna have to disagree with this point... the Terran DLC has probably the best overall beginner tutorial for new players. It also starts players out with a mostly clear path in which to take, and it is in by far the safest set of sectors in the entire game. Young gun just plops you into the universe and wishes you luck... you could go like one sector away and find an I and multiple K's, plus all the M/S ships destroying everything in Hatikvahs Choice. And that's just one sector away.

The Terran start is plenty friendly for new players.
True for an experienced player but, apart from the "tutorial" teaching the player to place and repair satellites and scan stations, it puts the player in a tight spot by taking him against Ks, Ps, M/N's. The PIO gamestart is much easier in this regard. Remember, I am talking about new players. When you and I player (or tried) these gamestarts we were already playing for 1 year plus and knew to avoid "tight" spots... the new player does not and will try to take out a P (at least) with an underarmed and too slow Kukri...

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EGO_Aut
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Re: Terran start difficulty spike

Post by EGO_Aut » Mon, 12. Sep 22, 22:24

Kukri is MUCH better than the standard starter ship Elite :roll:

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grapedog
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Re: Terran start difficulty spike

Post by grapedog » Tue, 13. Sep 22, 01:21

EGO_Aut wrote:
Mon, 12. Sep 22, 22:24
Kukri is MUCH better than the standard starter ship Elite :roll:
Its been a while since i played one, but doesn't one of the split starts just drop you in space, in your space suit, and you gotta find like an abandoned jaguar or something?

dtpsprt
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Re: Terran start difficulty spike

Post by dtpsprt » Tue, 13. Sep 22, 03:18

EGO_Aut wrote:
Mon, 12. Sep 22, 22:24
Kukri is MUCH better than the standard starter ship Elite :roll:
True but if it tries to go against a fast moving Xenon (especially an M) it is dead meat in the starting configuration, except if the player is an experienced pilot. Not someone who has just bought the game and starts without probably having understand the controls and some basic nuances...

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Re: Terran start difficulty spike

Post by dtpsprt » Tue, 13. Sep 22, 03:19

grapedog wrote:
Tue, 13. Sep 22, 01:21
EGO_Aut wrote:
Mon, 12. Sep 22, 22:24
Kukri is MUCH better than the standard starter ship Elite :roll:
Its been a while since i played one, but doesn't one of the split starts just drop you in space, in your space suit, and you gotta find like an abandoned jaguar or something?
It's the "Fires of Defeat" start (my favourite for many reasons) and the Jaguar is not abandoned. It comes by itself to find you and there is a 4*pilot aboard.

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Re: Terran start difficulty spike

Post by Caedes91 » Mon, 26. Sep 22, 17:23

csaba wrote:
Wed, 7. Sep 22, 21:21
I just restarted as the Terran Protectorate. The starting scout isn't really enough to progress the Terran missions anymore. Back when Cradle dropped it was much easier, I barely noticed any difficulty up until the very end of the mission chain, now you have to avoid combat like the plague otherwise you are quickly overwhelmed.

The increased ship density from Savage Spur doesn't help either, the "unprotected" Xenon S ships had 3 Moreyas and 2 Kuraokamis next to them.

The way how enemy fighters now chase you with Travel drive also makes it hard, cause destroying the 2 miners takes a while in a scout so you're bound to have a few Ms ruining your party. Simply passing the patrol as your wingman suggests has them turn around and in your back before you can take out the first target.
I had to elaborately draw away fighters from region to even progress.

This wouldn't be an issue if the optional upgrade mission beforehand involved getting you a whole better ship, as it stands even a fully upgraded Kukri has no chance of survival in the intended direct approach. Heck a beginner would even find a Katana challenging if the player is not careful and draws in too many fighters.

This doesn't give me much of a headache, a mild annoyance really as I'm aware of the AI's nuances, but a new player just rolling the Terran character to try out the game is in for a rude awakening.
Congratulation for getting devs attention...

The terran gamestart is easy enough, the only challenge you might face, is the fight against the Yaki dude in Neptune. Everything before is easy, even for beginners.

Xenon are already a joke in this game. Please, don't dumb them down even more!

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Re: Terran start difficulty spike

Post by csaba » Thu, 29. Sep 22, 21:09

Caedes91 wrote:
Mon, 26. Sep 22, 17:23


Congratulation for getting devs attention...

The terran gamestart is easy enough, the only challenge you might face, is the fight against the Yaki dude in Neptune. Everything before is easy, even for beginners.

Xenon are already a joke in this game. Please, don't dumb them down even more!
It was before. It's is still if you know how to get a Katana 2 minutes into the game.

But not if you start and fly your starting Kukri into the mission with the optional engine upgrade installed, you could be an ACE pilot and you will still die. A stray shot can kill that thing from a P, fully kitted it still struggles against the mission generated Xenon numbers in the next part.

Making the 3rd mission into the game more accessible is not "dumbing" down the game. It removes a brick wall that would otherwise either force a player to abandon an in progress mission in limbo until the player figures out how to come back with a better ship (making it look real stupid) or makes them rage quit.

Or you are playing a different game than I am. Since I don't see any way where you fly that ship there and destroy the 2 target Xenon Ss with the starting guns before a squad of Xenon Ms rips you apart and that pretending a Yaki raiding squad is not nearby which it is 50% of the time.

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Re: Terran start difficulty spike

Post by dtpsprt » Sat, 1. Oct 22, 07:32

csaba wrote:
Thu, 29. Sep 22, 21:09

It was before. It's is still if you know how to get a Katana 2 minutes into the game.

But not if you start and fly your starting Kukri into the mission with the optional engine upgrade installed, you could be an ACE pilot and you will still die. A stray shot can kill that thing from a P, fully kitted it still struggles against the mission generated Xenon numbers in the next part.

Making the 3rd mission into the game more accessible is not "dumbing" down the game. It removes a brick wall that would otherwise either force a player to abandon an in progress mission in limbo until the player figures out how to come back with a better ship (making it look real stupid) or makes them rage quit.

Or you are playing a different game than I am. Since I don't see any way where you fly that ship there and destroy the 2 target Xenon Ss with the starting guns before a squad of Xenon Ms rips you apart and that pretending a Yaki raiding squad is not nearby which it is 50% of the time.
Actually those initial missions have more to do with avoiding to be killes and taking on the 2 S with your partner (who has the "Big Guns").

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