Xenon Rage

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Starlight_Corporation
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Xenon Rage

Post by Starlight_Corporation » Thu, 6. Jan 22, 00:47

Prelude info:

Until recently, I had a quite peaceful universe, which suited me as trader/economy builder (Terran cadet start). Had an early Xenon push into Asteroid belt & the Void, but with the combined might of the Terran/argons the xenon are pushed back. Terrans control Asteroid belt (almost void of stations since xenon attack), Getsu Fune & Savage Spur II (both now have several Terran stations). The Void is under firm Terran/Argon control & their combined fleet at the Frontier Edge gate makes short work of anything the xenon try to send through. Xenon bordering the Holy Order & Teladi are relatively peaceful (Ianama Zura sees regular Xenon incursions, but the Teladi fleet can hold them off + 3 Defense stations around that gate to Xenon space)
Further exploration saw some serious Xenon activity in the Free family region, but with help from the Terrans & a newly built Osaka, I drove them out, bar a few Defense stations left (but far outside the sector plane so they pose no threat)

Due to a thread about Zyarth being weak against Xenon, I went out & explored the Split sectors rapidly & discovered a thriving Zyarth region. The Xenon in north are practically defeated & have lost one of their shipyards & the small Paranid hub is seeing serious Xenon activity but a bunch of defense stations around the entrance gate to Xenon space holds them off fine.
Central Xenon sectors are quiet, but got some serious station presence. Hatikvah houses a combined Argon/Terran fleet that keeps watch at the xenon gate, but don't have much work.

And then I did the Yaki plot & the Xenon went crazy...

Issue with raging Xenon.

Went & did the Yaki plot & blew up the Xenon amplifier station for the plot. From then on, the Xenon suddenly got very restless & sent out various fleets. I can barely hold them off; Weakest continuous attack force is in the Free Family territory, as Xenon K's regularly show up, but at elast it is one by one, so can hold them off.
Hatikvah's Fate gets the brunt of center Xenon aggression. Twice a Xenon fleet has struck there (Xenon I accompanied with multiple Xenon K's), resulting in the total loss of the Argon/Terran fleet, but a newly built Behemoth(mine) keeps guard with help from the closeby factories. Don't think they can fend off a third attack if it comes with a Xenon I without personally flying the Behemoth.
the Xenon gate in the Void holds for now, but don't know for how long.
Worst is the Xenon attack from Emperor's Pride. they sent out a massive fleet that wiped clean Litany of Fury IX in one go (no ownership anymore & no stations left) & simply cleared every station in Wretched Skies X on their way to Zyarth space (Only Paranid stations on the fringe of the sector survived + the shipyard). Managed to bring them to a halt in Zyarth space with the Syn I got gifted from the plot & the fact the Xenon fleet was spread out. Secured Zyarth space

Been fighting near continuous for hours in Wretched Skies X (saving & taking a break excluded) The Xenon just keep coming & had to fight off multiple Xenon k's at a time + sometims a Xenon I (that thing is tough...)
Currently flying the Osaka & assisted by the Syn (I find the Osaka handier to fly & avoid fire)

Note: not using any mods, switch of Xenon behaviour might be due to 4.20 release; albeit they remained calm till after the amplifier destruction.


The question

Any idea how long this Xenon rage lasts? Hardly get time to manage my empire (thank the pause button!). Did built a Rattlesnake & plan to pilot that, because I need something with serious firepower. Can't get an Asgard yet. I do have enoughr ep with the Terrans, Argons, Paranid & Teladi to teleport anywhere in their sector (got Teleport rank III researched)
Current capital ships:
- 2 Osaka's, Behemoth, Syn & Rattlesnake (still being equipped), main guns fitted, L guns are plasma's, M guns are either bolt or flak (anti fighter stuff)

What kind of ship combination works best to hold off a continuous stream of Xenon K's? Would like to get back into trading & missions & doing more of the plots but kinda hard to do when I have to jump into Destroyers constantly to fend of Xenon attacks...
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Re: Xenon Rage

Post by gorman2040 » Thu, 6. Jan 22, 07:34

I'm getting some serious Xenon incursions in Zyarth space as well since my new 4.20 start.
A rattlesnake with some mods is definitely a god ship to get rid of those K.
For the I, I would say you need several destroyers to attack, when the I is busy wrecking a station is also a good time to strike.

I was thinking, if I do a mostly trader playthrough, I would prioritize supplying shipyards, especially Zyarth one as it has always been short on supplies across all my playthrough.

If you can afford it, have at least 5 destroyers guarding a gate (though that might not even be enough).

You can also do diplomatic missions to stop factions from also fighting each others on top of Xenon but that's a medium/long shot depending on your assets.

Good luck!
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Pesanur
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Re: Xenon Rage

Post by Pesanur » Thu, 6. Jan 22, 11:02

For the I, as long as it not have escorts, a Rattlesnake with Paranid Plasma L turrets with Cowboy mods is more that enough to quickly finish it.
The only problems is if the I have a large fighter escort. Those Xenon fighter swarms are really deadly for a Rattlesnake, even when equipped with Terran shields.

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Re: Xenon Rage

Post by jlehtone » Thu, 6. Jan 22, 13:20

Pesanur wrote:
Thu, 6. Jan 22, 11:02
The only problems is if the I have a large fighter escort. Those Xenon fighter swarms are really deadly for a Rattlesnake, even when equipped with Terran shields.
Agreed.

Peeking satellite feed from couple saves, a native "K Fleet" has at most 1-3-10 (K-P-M/N) and the only "I Fleet" that I saw had 3-5-15.
That is the I, 2K, 5P, and the P's had at most 4 M/N escorts each. K's escort I, P's escort K's, and fighters escort (some) P's. As comparison, the Intervention Asgard fleet is 1-2-12-24 (Asgard-Osaka-Falx-Kukri) ... unless TER have production issues.

IME, unmodded Phoenix (PAR L Plasma, ARG M Flak, SPL engines) fares better against fighter swarm than unmodded Rattler because it is less likely to become a sitting duck. (Before 4.20 that Phoenix did struggle with the XL shields of Asgard ...)


Logically, the "rage" should not spawn from void because that would be against the ethos of economy simulation. Therefore, it should have logistical limits.

I have not played any plots, but I assume that the plots do modify the other attributes of factions: reputation (enable war or peace state), aggressiviness, expansionism. For example, increase the chance that Xenon fleets get a "Raid" assignment.


Ironically, a recurring player wish is to at least have a "plot trigger" that turns the docile Xenon angry (since a "difficulty slider" is out of question). We obviously cannot prove any causality between the wish/idea on Forum and the way the Yaki plot has been written ... :roll:
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Re: Xenon Rage

Post by dmk » Thu, 6. Jan 22, 14:47

jlehtone wrote:
Thu, 6. Jan 22, 13:20
Pesanur wrote:
Thu, 6. Jan 22, 11:02
The only problems is if the I have a large fighter escort. Those Xenon fighter swarms are really deadly for a Rattlesnake, even when equipped with Terran shields.
Agreed.
you just drops 20 medium laser tower and 20 small one, and swarm problem is solved (medium and small lt deploys independently),
obviously while you drops them you need to fly so they stay more or less together (but not exactly in one place).
for collection you need just to deactivate them all (from selection on the map, if only lt is selected) and using collection button collect them.
any P Rattlesnake could perfectly handle itself.

Starlight_Corporation
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Re: Xenon Rage

Post by Starlight_Corporation » Thu, 6. Jan 22, 15:05

Thanks for all the replies folks!

Think part of the sudden Xenon attacks is that it was a game started in 4.10 & Xenon in the then quiet areas just kept building up stuffs & now with 4.20 they decided it is Extermination time with a formidable xenon economy to back them up & it just collided with the Amplifier station destruction.

I did notice there's at least 4 other Amplifier stations in other sectors? Do I have to destroy them too? They're all in Tharka's Cascade; 3 in Tharka's Cascade XV & one in Tharka's Cascade XVII. Might be more, but bit too tied up to explore in detail. Image in spoiler, the 'amplifier' stations are just identified as Xenon Station, but look the same as the plot one in Savage Spur I. Note, Yaki plot is marked complete & Yaki like me.
Spoiler
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Seems it is time to start researching modifications in the HQ, I neglected this part so far. I do have alot of modification parts I grabbed from all the xenon fights.
On Diplomacy, I joined additional war guilds by the advice given (yay teleport) & grabbed the 'build defense station' missions & got lucky with some defense station builds needed in Wretched Skies by Paranid/Split + even a Terran one, so hopefully once it is complete, Terrans will send a fleet to assist. Can use the relief.

Following the advice, I'm ramping up the Split economy with traders & miners (they got plenty of stations, but seem to lack the ships to move so much materials around) & assigned extra traders/movers in Argon space. Terrans/Segaris are well covered & can build ships with no delays. Teladi economy is running fine & they can replace the losses quite well (mainly Ianama Zura fighting). Paranid economies run well, but they're using it to fight each other & the Argon, not something I plan to support till after the Xenon threat dies down. Note: the Xenon bordering the Holy Order are still pacifists, they never came out their sectors & same for the Xenon bordering Company regard, they took the neutral sector next door, but that's the extend of their 'aggression' <-- No longer true .... They became active as well.

Edit: Nope on the pacifist Xenon, they just sent a K into Holy Order territory, but lucky it got smashed fast. Sent in a cheap scout kestrel into the neightbouring Xenon sector & discovered a new Xenon fleet in wait: 1 Xenon I & 5 Xenon K's spread across 3 Xenon stations along with their complimentary frigate/fighter wings.... Looks like the Holy Order will be next. Gonna scout out the Xenon sectors next to Company Regard as well. Don't want any more surprises & the Teladi are far less prepared there.
Edit2: There can be no peace. Glad I sent that scout out to Company regard, turns out the Xenon were in takeover mode. Gladly the Rattlesnake was nearby, so sent it down & managed to beat back the Xenon. But more will be coming when I checked out those nearby Xenon sectors...



Regarding the Xenon I, agree with the anti-fighter screen needed IS, so many fighters. Lucky the Osaka is equipped with flak cannons, has been a lifesaver; Syn has the firepower to take out the capitals, but has serious issues with the fighters roaming around. Both do have plasma cannons in their L slots. And definitely need some serious firepower to take them down in a timely manner, to prevent being overwhelmed by their support.

Currently, I tend to outfit my destroyers with plasma guns, flak (split/argon, depending on who's shipyard is closest) & outfit them with terran Mk3 shields (and ofc main batteries). Reading the advice, I'll have to order quite some Destroyers to secure space (Free family region will be first, as it seems easiest to secure it with an OOS force -> Xenon only enter it through Family Tkr sector, one by one)
Hoping the Wretched Skies assault dies down soon, but a peek in Emperor's Pride doesn't make me hopeful, there's alot of Xenon Stations in those sectors...
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Re: Xenon Rage

Post by BitByte » Fri, 7. Jan 22, 15:24

Feels since 4.20 Xenon I become much more violent than before.
I've had 2 mixed fleets of Phoenix & Behemoths (each had 20 ships) guarding in Company Regard - 1 fleet in east gate and 1 in up north end of highway. They didn't have any problems to keep area clear and barely never contacted me. Since 4.20 K causes alert which requires some re-ordering (change target to K). But when I shows up it's very common I loose 1-2 ships and fleets are even bigger (30 ships in each).

Similar situation in Litany of Fury - There I have 20 Odysseus guarding gate to Emporer's Pride and they have kept gate clean without any issues or complains. Since 4.20 I had to build defence platform there due Xenon I became problem.
When not in sector I is able to "teleport / speed fly" past my defence platform (which is about 7km from the gate) and it won't get near any damage to shield (few %). But if I'm in the sector flying 1 of those Odysseus Xenon I cannot use it's "magic tricks" but is right in the range of defence platform and only 10 of my Odysseus fleet (the half which is in same side where I appears when coming from the gate) was able to handle it and none died. Destroying I took less than 10s from point when it came to the sector.

So not only that Egosoft fixed the issue with poor main cannons of K & I in 4.10 but they somehow made I more worse in 4.20 when combat occurs on other sector than player.

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Re: Xenon Rage

Post by Starlight_Corporation » Sat, 8. Jan 22, 13:56

Checked patch notes: viewtopic.php?p=5092716#p5092716 and it does mention changes to OOS battles. Two seem particular: reduced capital main cannon effectiveness OOS & improvede combat simulation when player not present (no idea what Egosoft means by this, but think this is what made the K's & I's more deadly in OOS with their firepower)

Xenon aggression in my game now has spread out. Less intense attacks (yay, I can finally leave Wretched Skies X without risking it being overrun), but now every Xenon sector bar one is being active & sending out fleets. Hence decided to drop my trader/economic power buildup approach & went for the warlord approach, making lots of big bad ships to halt the Xenon with.

Current situation is this:
- The xenon gate in the Void is the only one that can hold well without my intervention, despite continued Xenon attacks. It does have a combined Argon/Terran fleet guarding it that gets replenished often.
- The Xenon attacks in Hatikvah's Choice has destroyed most of the infrastructure, but they are pushed back now. No standing fleet anymore (pushback was by a patrolling Terran & Argon fleet, but they got destroyed). Currently has an Osaka guarding the gate. HAT trade station still intact.
- Xenon had launched a fierce attack on the Paranid Holy Order in Holy Vision, wrecking most of the infrastructure around the gate. Had to push the Xenon back with another Osaka. Xenon attacks continue, but at least the Paranid Holy Order can build ships fast enough to replenish their losses for now.
- Paranid Godrealm has been sending large fleets to Wretched Skies (which helped greatly in relieving me). Now they can hold their own against the Xenon & have retaken Litany of Fury & are rebuilding it. Osaka & Syn are assisting them, as the Xenon still continue to stream into the sector, but they often don't need IS assistance. The Paranid Godrealm fleet consisting of 8 Destroyers & 2 Paranid carriers do help alot in this.
- Xenon in Savage Spur are held back by the strong Terran presence (Savage Spur II is a thriving Terran sector)
- Xenon have begun attacking Family Zyarth space fiercely from all bordering Xenon sectors. Luckily, the Split can hold them off for now, albeit I have to assist in Family Kritt, hence my Rattlesnake is now patrolling there.

The good news is that I have a new powerful ally in the Xenon conflict, namely the Teladi.
- Xenon attacked Company Regard, I intervened & removed the Xenon stations there. Teladi responded with bashing the Xenon stations in Turqoise Sea X. Xenon attacks have stopped in this area.
- Ianama Zura is secure, no intervention needed from my side. The Teladi have begun invading that Xenon sector bordering it. Matrix 451 is still colored red, but the Teladi have secured the west side with Defense platforms & a big fleet, secure enough to build even economic infrastructure. Xenon still control the east, but they are losing ground.
- Xenon attacks on the Free Family Split has almost entirely ceased. Sometimes a Xenon K still arrives, but Split can handle it, with thanks to the Teladi fleets patrolling in their sectors (Teladi got factories & Defense platforms in the Free Family territories bordering the Xenon sectors)
- The Xenon sector Tharka's Fall is leveled. Noticed it had switched white & thought it was the Free Family Split who did it. Sent in a scout & discovered a patrolling Teladi fleet.

Seems the Xenon are finding out what happens when you come between a Teladi & their profitsssss.


Have to say, this is ending up in one memorable game. Learning fast due to all the Xenon aggression, been using the tips people gave me & been reading up on guides on how to handle various situations. With how the situation is going now, I believe it is stable enough to handle the smaller plot steps, so can now continue with the plot side of the game.
Big thanks for the tips folks & the guides people have written!
Last edited by Starlight_Corporation on Sat, 8. Jan 22, 18:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xenon Rage

Post by jlehtone » Sat, 8. Jan 22, 15:39

Every faction has various "jobs". A job has a ship/fleet and runs a task. There is a limit, "quota", how many jobs of same type a faction can have. Different types have different limits.

Limit for some job types does not consider how many sectors the faction owns, "galaxy quota".
Limit for some job types does consider how many sectors the faction owns as limit is per sector, "sector quota".

Your Xenon have many sectors and thus can have many jobs. They also have resources (for now), so they can rebuild.

When you stop a raiding "K Fleet", i.e. kill, it may not be rebuilt in the same Xenon pocket. A replacement might appear at any pocket, where the quotas allow. For example, you are do battle in Hatikvah, but the "respawn" could occur in Scale Plate, Emperor's Pride, or Atiya.

Therefore, it might appear that "Xenon are everywhere", but in reality you just meet reincarnations of the same K job, "Agrajag"* all over the place.

Getting the Xenon into the pockets where I want them to be -- that I call "Herding the Xenon". :goner:


* https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Agrajag
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Re: Xenon Rage

Post by Starlight_Corporation » Mon, 10. Jan 22, 01:16

Cheers for the explanation. Might be what was going on. Xenon activity has died down a bit now. Only continuous attacks in 4 sectors now (Hatikvah's Choice, Family Zhin, Holy Vision & The Void) but the factions can keep them at bay most of the time. Only the attacks in Hatikvah still need some assistance as the sector got hit hard previously. Holy Order recovered & has a strong military presence in Holy Vision.
Paranid Godrealm keeps sending fleets to Litany of Fury, alongside construction ships & the sector is rapidly being restored to its former glory. Xenon fleets get easily repelled by the large Paranid presence+ my Osaka & Syn help as well.
Matrix 451 is ready to fall to the Teladi, only one Xenon Defense Station left & when passing through Ianama Zura, there was a large Teladi fleet heading to the Matrix gate, so I guess that Xenon station's days are numbered. Will help the economy greatly in that area of space once it becomes safe to travel.

Glad Xenon activity has died down to manageable levels, still curious about the other Amplifier stations in Tharka's Cascade. No idea if they serve a purpose?
Also, the Raptor Carrier has made for a great mobile office so far, smashing Xenon Defense Platforms in faction territories & running my traders & stuff along the way. Looking forward to continue the various plots (HAT, PHQ & Terran) now that the Xenon thread has died down.
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Re: Xenon Rage

Post by gorman2040 » Tue, 11. Jan 22, 09:05

jlehtone wrote:
Sat, 8. Jan 22, 15:39
Every faction has various "jobs". A job has a ship/fleet and runs a task. There is a limit, "quota", how many jobs of same type a faction can have. Different types have different limits.

Limit for some job types does not consider how many sectors the faction owns, "galaxy quota".
Limit for some job types does consider how many sectors the faction owns as limit is per sector, "sector quota".

Your Xenon have many sectors and thus can have many jobs. They also have resources (for now), so they can rebuild.

When you stop a raiding "K Fleet", i.e. kill, it may not be rebuilt in the same Xenon pocket. A replacement might appear at any pocket, where the quotas allow. For example, you are do battle in Hatikvah, but the "respawn" could occur in Scale Plate, Emperor's Pride, or Atiya.

Therefore, it might appear that "Xenon are everywhere", but in reality you just meet reincarnations of the same K job, "Agrajag"* all over the place.

Getting the Xenon into the pockets where I want them to be -- that I call "Herding the Xenon". :goner:


* https://hitchhikers.fandom.com/wiki/Agrajag
That is very good to know, thanks for sharing.

Do you know by any chance, how to stimulate the Xenons to claim sectors?

In my current playthrough, I am trying to help the Xenons reinforce their presence in Atiya's Misfortune and Faulty Logic.
There is only one shipyard for the whole area (no wharf AFAICT) and they don't seem to create big fleets (I never saw an I there).
Also the Ks are very erratic, sometimes they will go all the way to Second Contact Flashpoint without trying to destroy any of the defense stations along the way (there is even one in Atiya's Misfortune next to the gate).
I'm trying to disable the turret on defense stations to help them but it's hard when they just go right past it (I even tried to bait them with a fighter, shooting to get their attention. Very limited success)

Should I be trying to destroy other Xenon fleets that may be stuck somewhere in their sector?
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Specs: i7-3770S @3.10Ghz, 16GB DD3, 1TB SSD, RTX2060 Super. Saitek X52. LG 4K TV.
X3 Reunion, X3 TC, X Rebirth and now X4, still shooting Xenons and charting the universe since 2006.

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Re: Xenon Rage

Post by af_2017 » Thu, 13. Jan 22, 15:32

gorman2040 wrote:
Tue, 11. Jan 22, 09:05
Do you know by any chance, how to stimulate the Xenons to claim sectors?

In my current playthrough, I am trying to help the Xenons reinforce their presence in Atiya's Misfortune and Faulty Logic.
There is only one shipyard for the whole area (no wharf AFAICT) and they don't seem to create big fleets (I never saw an I there).
Also the Ks are very erratic, sometimes they will go all the way to Second Contact Flashpoint without trying to destroy any of the defense stations along the way (there is even one in Atiya's Misfortune next to the gate).
I'm trying to disable the turret on defense stations to help them but it's hard when they just go right past it (I even tried to bait them with a fighter, shooting to get their attention. Very limited success)

Should I be trying to destroy other Xenon fleets that may be stuck somewhere in their sector?
This is a bad part of full product simulation and "think" part of the game.
If there's no ships to gather/deliver resources no combat fleet will be built.
Probably no one should kill production stations and miner/traders.
Because destroyed production really destroys enemy and not not killed combat fleet.

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Re: Xenon Rage

Post by gorman2040 » Thu, 13. Jan 22, 21:18

af_2017 wrote:
Thu, 13. Jan 22, 15:32
This is a bad part of full product simulation and "think" part of the game.
If there's no ships to gather/deliver resources no combat fleet will be built.
Probably no one should kill production stations and miner/traders.
Because destroyed production really destroys enemy and not not killed combat fleet.
I understand your point and Xenon production might be a bit slow since there is no Wharf to build S units but I can see some of them moving around and K's are built so they should have the resources to build a wharf in that area?

I guess I'll just try to make a push in a different are of the universe, see if it changes the situation there. Talk about flying blind :)
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X3 Reunion, X3 TC, X Rebirth and now X4, still shooting Xenons and charting the universe since 2006.

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Re: Xenon Rage

Post by jlehtone » Fri, 14. Jan 22, 00:39

Flying blind. "Know thine enemy and know thyself."
Explore. Know what is where. For unknown reason nobody attacks the satellites we drop. Fools!

The missions to escort a miner through Kha'ak are easy compared to getting Xenon S to Atiya:
* You don't know which Xenon will try to head that way
* There are many sectors to cross
* The ship you escort does genuinely hate you
* Everyone else wants to kill your "client"
* The everyone else measure you with "reputation"

The precious ships that get through ... you need to keep safe too, protect their sector from raids.
If Xenon have Miner S, then they can mine, get Ore and Silicon.
If Xenon have Freighter S and Energy Plant, then they have energy to build stations and ships.
All or nothing.

Killing Xenon ships and Wharf(s) elsewhere does give Xenon "unfilled jobs" that they could build -- if they had means to build.


A raiding K in a sector that you want ... perhaps you could get it to chase you towards spot where you want it to go?
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Re: Xenon Rage

Post by gorman2040 » Sun, 16. Jan 22, 04:45

jlehtone wrote:
Fri, 14. Jan 22, 00:39
Flying blind. "Know thine enemy and know thyself."
Explore. Know what is where. For unknown reason nobody attacks the satellites we drop. Fools!

The missions to escort a miner through Kha'ak are easy compared to getting Xenon S to Atiya:
* You don't know which Xenon will try to head that way
* There are many sectors to cross
* The ship you escort does genuinely hate you
* Everyone else wants to kill your "client"
* The everyone else measure you with "reputation"

The precious ships that get through ... you need to keep safe too, protect their sector from raids.
If Xenon have Miner S, then they can mine, get Ore and Silicon.
If Xenon have Freighter S and Energy Plant, then they have energy to build stations and ships.
All or nothing.

Killing Xenon ships and Wharf(s) elsewhere does give Xenon "unfilled jobs" that they could build -- if they had means to build.


A raiding K in a sector that you want ... perhaps you could get it to chase you towards spot where you want it to go?
For sure, it doesn't make sense that Xenon don't destroy your satellites, I believe they used to in X3, that will probably be changed in the future.

That escort mission definitely sounds challenging! A good idea for "very hard" missions from factions. You would have to escort some slow ships through a Xenon sector.

I'll try clearing Xenon from one spot and hope it will stimulate other places.

Cheers
"Tally ho!" -> Best boarding call ever :-D
Specs: i7-3770S @3.10Ghz, 16GB DD3, 1TB SSD, RTX2060 Super. Saitek X52. LG 4K TV.
X3 Reunion, X3 TC, X Rebirth and now X4, still shooting Xenons and charting the universe since 2006.

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