[Idea] Make pirates more interesting

[BlackRain]

So, I was thinking about pirates and how to make a more interesting pirate gameplay. With the new DLC and new version of X4, I will probably come back to play and perhaps even mod a bit. These are the ideas I am thinking of for pirate gameplay.

1) A couple of new pirate factions which function differently from the so called existing pirate factions (which aren't really pirates).
2) A pirate game start (you start allied with one of the pirate factions but enemy to everyone else). You can get the blueprints for their modules and build a pirate station.
3) A unique pirate station. This will of course use existing station modules, but what will make it unique is the following: It will have a scrap module which can get all resources necessary to build ships from so that they don't need to trade with anyone to build ships, just get scrap and process at their shipyard. The idea being, they can scavenge everything they need from existing faction ships and build their own.
4) They will have scrap ships which can hide their identity so they can trick the authorities and get scrap, unless they get caught of course.
5) They are enemies of all factions and build in sectors where there is no police presence/sector control. Just their shipyard station and maybe drug stations?
6) Maybe Teladi would still be willing to trade with them?

What do you think? Any other ideas out there? I am not saying I will do this, but I might do this so let's brainstorm. Don't go too crazy lol.

[magitsu]

They probably do indeed need Teladi or something else, pirate faction local location related trading partner. Otherwise they end up as cripple like SCA, unable to run anything self-sufficiently.

Can they survive just by building ships from scrap? Since it's so easy for the AI to lose single, expensive ships... and now everyone is red against them.

I think basing it on scrap needs more thought. It might not be the best idea, even if it seems obvious at the start.

Maybe the Pirates could tie in to (PIO Katana) Freelancers? They could be anti-pirate operator in non-patrolled sectors. Bounty hunters... and maybe the normal military could treat pirates as not worth their time?

[Realspace]

I love this if you can manage to have expecially the recycling thing, not needing shipyards, which makes the pirates more pirate..ish

I'd immediately add these factions to the new systems I made that are uncolonized rough ones as in the X3's approach.

Would gladly add to the XRSGE galaxy that already revamped Scaplate and hatikvah

[magitsu]

Another option could be to consider it as an add-on to FOCW Corporations and direct the pirating activity only to corporate assets. They could be a rogue way of competition between the companies, because the corps somehow would have to maintain image and factions wouldn't be interested to work for them. That would limit the amount of potential pirate killers, and similarly the amount of them needed. If they blockaded just corp traffic and harassed them... then it could be so unique that you'd be incentivized to look for them.

This would enable dropping the scrap which isn't really unique anymore after ToA factions. They could live from corp wallets and plunder.

[BlackRain]

They probably do indeed need Teladi or something else, pirate faction local location related trading partner. Otherwise they end up as cripple like SCA, unable to run anything self-sufficiently.

Can they survive just by building ships from scrap? Since it's so easy for the AI to lose single, expensive ships... and now everyone is red against them.

I think basing it on scrap needs more thought. It might not be the best idea, even if it seems obvious at the start.

Maybe the Pirates could tie in to (PIO Katana) Freelancers? They could be anti-pirate operator in non-patrolled sectors. Bounty hunters... and maybe the normal military could treat pirates as not worth their time?

I can make it so that they get a good amount of materials from scrap to make it worth it and the player could also get this module from them. The idea was if they have scrap ships which can fake their id's so they don't get attacked by faction ships (as long as they aren't detected) they should be able to get quite a bit of scrap without any worries. This is just an idea at this stage but it should be feasible, maybe? With scrap, they could get all the resources they need to build their ships. Also, anything they plunder normally could also end up back in their shipyard (through already existing plunder scripts). They can also trade with corporations and/or teladi (leaving their relationship locked at -5 maybe? with these factions).

I don't think pirates would only attack corporations, they should attack anyone, but they might also trade with them (again at -5 relations maybe or whatever that number is that they can still trade but might also attack). Needs more consideration.

[Folker]

I totally agree with you. And I think that the pirate factions do not have true pirate behavior including SCA, BUC, and YAK.

I think they should go to more sectors to search for resources and attack more trade ships, give them more capital ships, especially the YAK who don't have any, unless you take the ship variation expansion mod or the deca mod which adds one to the YAK.

SCA has a lot of teladi ships but rarely use them, I think they should increase their number of ships or do something to use them more against other factions

And for my taste the worst, because they don't do raids except for the paranid plot, is BUC, they have all the argon vanguard and sentinel ships, same for the paranid ships but they are also the most inactive, they should change that.

We should make the pirates more existing, make them like in X3R or X3TC or X3AP. Make them have a shipyard, that's already done. Make sure that the pirates have the possession of some neutral sectors to attack the other factions. And above all, more ships, for SCA, BUC and YAK, and that BUC is more active.

Also when they have developed their shipyards they can build destroyers, carriers, and why not battleships to protect either their sectors or their shipyards.

I also forgot to mention above FAF who are representative of a good pirate behavior, they plunder, create destroyers, to plunder again, the only thing missing is to have their own shipyard.

There should also be a pirate faction per species, but that this one is very active in the sectors with as mentioned in the messages above an economy based on the scrap but with a faction camouflage:

YAK => TER and PIO
SCA => MIN and TEL
BUC => PAR and HOP
FAF => FRF and ZYA
VIG => ARG and ANT


I have a rough idea of the number of ships per pirate faction, except for VIG, because he has enough:

1-4 XL -------- with 50% of the ships protecting the sector, 50 looters
10-30 L ------- of which 25% of the ships protect the sector, 75% loot
100-200 M --- of which 75% are protecting the L ships and the Stations, 25% others are looting
300-400 S ---- All in support of the stations, XL, L, M ships

[EGO_Aut]

Pirates have a lot of L ships, but no XL.
You can already play as Pirate, but you are very limited with ships/equipment and blueprints.

I think a nice Mod that gives you a signature of the faction where you are with your ship, to enable docking and trade would be an interesting option ( only available @Pirate stations, and only if your standing with all factions is bigger than -10 or at war).

[Warnoise]

Also using refitted L and XL trade ships as military capitals would be cool.

[BlackRain]

I would need to make it as compatible with vanilla as possible, so no new ships. They would have to use whatever existing ships there are. I think there are pirate destroyers, pirate frigates and plenty of pirate fighters that they could use. Also, I do not want to touch existing factions I think, especially if connected to missions like the Yaki for example or the Buccaneers. I think we can consider them to be different from traditional pirates. Also, FAF are more like terrorists. SCA is also connected with some missions. That is why I am talking about new factions. I mean, they could look and feel like these factions though, like a Pirate faction that is yaki like or SCA like, etc.

I think the biggest thing with these pirates is the whole idea of going it alone, whether they trade or kill is up to them (like real pirates would do I guess?) Also, they aren't intended to be super powerful factions that can take on governments. They shouldn't conquer sectors, they will just harass and live out their pirate lives lol. This is what I am thinking at this point.

Anyway, I am looking for ideas of features if anyone has any ideas or how might the ideas expressed be translated to good gameplay.

[magitsu]

Somehow it feels much easier to generate ideas for mission based gameplay than what the AI might be able to figure on its own.
Mission generated activities could include smuggling wrong faction military goods, selling intel to both sides, replacing crews with traitors... but not the slightest idea what the AI pirates could do on repeat while it isn't specifically tailored for you.

Do the existing pirating activities even work properly? There's cargo dropped, hacked etc. but is it actually picked up? If that works then the slightly harder kill for scrap idea can work. Currently the opportunistic scrap gathering seems to be working, but none generate the scrap intentionally. It's neutral, since there's no ownership assigned for the cubes/wrecks. So the scavenger part is covered with roaming CYC Scrapper/Manticores.

[BlackRain]

Somehow it feels much easier to generate ideas for mission based gameplay than what the AI might be able to figure on its own.
Mission generated activities could include smuggling wrong faction military goods, selling intel to both sides, replacing crews with traitors... but not the slightest idea what the AI pirates could do on repeat while it isn't specifically tailored for you.

Do the existing pirating activities even work properly? There's cargo dropped, hacked etc. but is it actually picked up? If that works then the slightly harder kill for scrap idea can work. Currently the opportunistic scrap gathering seems to be working, but none generate the scrap intentionally. It's neutral, since there's no ownership assigned for the cubes/wrecks. So the scavenger part is covered with roaming CYC Scrapper/Manticores.

The scrap aspect should work fine, if the pirates have enough scrappers, they should be able to get enough scrap, but it is left to be seen. Without testing, it is difficult to say. As for the plunder stuff, the ships using the plunder script are supposed to be picking up cargo and dropping it off at their HQ or whatever in theory.