Impact of 6.0 beta on mods

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XOSPECTRE

Re: Impact of 6.0 beta on mods

Post by XOSPECTRE » Sat, 4. Mar 23, 20:52

Yes im trying reimport eve online ships and everything goes smooth i have textures i have models sounds from vem format to ogg ilearned how textures can be recompossed to rgb chanels just lot of stuff wich teaches me how X4 is much higher graphic quality than eve online anyway .. even placeholder asset just need replace models ..

and yes scripting is easy, i mean i dont know how to script but when i opened kuretees emergent missions it was so easy to fix some stuff in notepad much easier than when i was doing arma 3 cti mission here my project

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 1811394312

But only problem is dae to xml and xml to dae . I remake entire x4 gui like eve online loading screrns start menus spunds everything i will post video latter on ... btw this not public mod just for me personally couse probably braking some trademarks rules so just my personal dream eve offline mod ...

And my appologie for spaming forum but im someoone if i want something i will do everything for it even if people hates me for it ... btw ithat behaviour got me good job .. which mean i can pay if someone do it for me but there is noone to pay for it lol


ALL THIS BECOUSE I LOVE X4 !!
...where is my boron plushie meh...
Thanks egosoft for X .

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Re: Impact of 6.0 beta on mods

Post by Flippi » Thu, 16. Mar 23, 09:24

If you watched the interview with Bernd 2/24/2023 you now realize you are wrong in all cases, but the good news is you can quit guessing. A 3DS max to Blender conversion is in process now so hopefully those who can use the files will get them soon PLUS with some automation tools for collision and lighting generating and such all very exciting.
The only person being wrong here, is you. Egosoft just confirmed that they are, in fact, using EMotion FX to create the .xac files.

That means, the character pipeline will most likely stay out of modders hands until the pipeline got changed. The files you are hoping for, are most likely only concerning ships and stations. But I guess Egosoft devs will, in time, also clear that up completely.
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Re: Impact of 6.0 beta on mods

Post by thomassanford » Thu, 16. Mar 23, 19:23

Flippi wrote:
Thu, 16. Mar 23, 09:24
If you watched the interview with Bernd 2/24/2023 you now realize you are wrong in all cases, but the good news is you can quit guessing. A 3DS max to Blender conversion is in process now so hopefully those who can use the files will get them soon PLUS with some automation tools for collision and lighting generating and such all very exciting.
The only person being wrong here, is you. Egosoft just confirmed that they are, in fact, using EMotion FX to create the .xac files.

That means, the character pipeline will most likely stay out of modders hands until the pipeline got changed. The files you are hoping for, are most likely only concerning ships and stations. But I guess Egosoft devs will, in time, also clear that up completely.
So you think they are currently drawing away in Emotion FX while talking about a 3DS Max to Blender conversion? I would venture to say they have never drawn anything in Emotion FX, but instead have used it for animations, effects, and possibly physics added to assets created in actual modeling tools like the ones mentioned above. Wouldn't that be the obvious thing to replace?

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Re: Impact of 6.0 beta on mods

Post by Flippi » Thu, 16. Mar 23, 19:42

So you think they are currently drawing away in Emotion FX while talking about a 3DS Max to Blender conversion? I would venture to say they have never drawn anything in Emotion FX, but instead have used it for animations, effects, and possibly physics added to assets created in actual modeling tools like the ones mentioned above. Wouldn't that be the obvious thing to replace?
I suggest you to read my posts again, and from the Egosoft devs in this thread and the other I linked.

My posts were about the .xac files (character meshes) comng from Emotion FX. And from the link I posted above, that turned out to be true. Egosoft devs in this very thread have already written that they cannot provide any files concerning the character pipeline, due to the use of said outdated tool. Do I have to really post another quote from linolafett just for you?
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Re: Impact of 6.0 beta on mods

Post by killerog » Tue, 21. Mar 23, 22:38

linolafett wrote:
Thu, 2. Feb 23, 15:56
I can not and will not speculate, because whatever i say will be incorrect and will annoy more than it helps.
Therefore i wont say anything aside of "we are close and are working on it".
Been a long time since I last looked at this forum, but it good to see these tools are hopefully on the way to being released :) Maybe i can find the time to play around with them once they are and see if I can get the BSG working in the game after 7 years (Now i feel very old :( ) after I managed to get it at least showing up.
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Re: Impact of 6.0 beta on mods

Post by linolafett » Wed, 22. Mar 23, 12:25

killerog wrote:
Tue, 21. Mar 23, 22:38
Been a long time since I last looked at this forum, but it good to see these tools are hopefully on the way to being released :) Maybe i can find the time to play around with them once they are and see if I can get the BSG working in the game after 7 years (Now i feel very old :( ) after I managed to get it at least showing up.
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Re: Impact of 6.0 beta on mods

Post by Observe » Wed, 22. Mar 23, 20:18

killerog wrote:
Tue, 21. Mar 23, 22:38
...it is good to see these tools are hopefully on the way to being released :)
Ditto that. I have be awaiting such tools since X3 and this is the main reason I haven't played since then. Looking forward to rolling up my 3D sleeves once again. :)

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Re: Impact of 6.0 beta on mods

Post by Axeface » Sat, 25. Mar 23, 02:29

So the new tags for shields, turrets and engines are explained in this thread, I have successfully made my old ships compatible as far as engines and turret go - but is there a new tag for weapons? I am trying to make a new weapon (the story of my life) and it just wont show up on the build menu.

Edit: It was the standard tag on the weapon. In 6.0 we need to remove this. Weapon now works.

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Re: Impact of 6.0 beta on mods

Post by Sturmer » Mon, 27. Mar 23, 12:55

Axeface wrote:
Sat, 25. Mar 23, 02:29
So the new tags for shields, turrets and engines are explained in this thread, I have successfully made my old ships compatible as far as engines and turret go - but is there a new tag for weapons? I am trying to make a new weapon (the story of my life) and it just wont show up on the build menu.

Edit: It was the standard tag on the weapon. In 6.0 we need to remove this. Weapon now works.
When will you upload the fixes for your ships? I've been loving the Cyclops and am sad I can't buy more of them for police duties.

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Re: Impact of 6.0 beta on mods

Post by Axeface » Mon, 27. Mar 23, 16:23

Sturmer wrote:
Mon, 27. Mar 23, 12:55
Axeface wrote:
Sat, 25. Mar 23, 02:29
So the new tags for shields, turrets and engines are explained in this thread, I have successfully made my old ships compatible as far as engines and turret go - but is there a new tag for weapons? I am trying to make a new weapon (the story of my life) and it just wont show up on the build menu.

Edit: It was the standard tag on the weapon. In 6.0 we need to remove this. Weapon now works.
When will you upload the fixes for your ships? I've been loving the Cyclops and am sad I can't buy more of them for police duties.
Depends how much of a technical hurdle the rest of the problems are, perhaps quickly perhaps never, we will see once the tools are released. For now you really shouldnt be using modded ships on the beta because theres a lot more broken than just not being able to buy weapons.

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Re: Impact of 6.0 beta on mods

Post by Sturmer » Mon, 27. Mar 23, 21:04

Axeface wrote:
Mon, 27. Mar 23, 16:23
Depends how much of a technical hurdle the rest of the problems are, perhaps quickly perhaps never, we will see once the tools are released. For now you really shouldnt be using modded ships on the beta because theres a lot more broken than just not being able to buy weapons.
Ah, okay, cause your previous post made it sound like you've already fixed everything. Yeah, well, at this point I'm forced to use modded ships on beta cause they can't be removed without CTDs, lol.

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Re: Impact of 6.0 beta on mods

Post by THE_TrashMan » Fri, 7. Apr 23, 11:15

thomassanford wrote:
Wed, 25. Jan 23, 01:23

I have asked many times over the years, but I will do it again given the latest mod breaking changes. PLEASE Release 3D CAD files for asset modding. The community figured out after pain staking effort how to port old ships and make stuff work for the most part, but I haven't seen anything entirely new and many ports are broken in ways you understand with no clear navs and collisions. Given a simple ship with all layers, textures,collision and nav meshes to look at how everything is laid out it would make new ship creation worthwhile. How about a rigged character to work with some new animations and variety or even a full room layout. Oh the possibilities... If it were not just guessing making it worth while for people with limited time to figure it out, but would be willing to draw.
Edit - To the point, I would figure all modders realize things change that break mods. It has happened in every other X game. I am just suggesting 'Official' layouts would make fixing them easier.

I second this. An example is worth a thousand words.
Also, makes getting into modeling new ships easier as you don't have to extract, convert and so on, just to look at a ship.

So please, release a few models as references. I just want something I can open and look at in Blender that I know is good.
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Re: Impact of 6.0 beta on mods

Post by Xkuka » Mon, 10. Apr 23, 16:04

Flippi wrote:
Thu, 16. Mar 23, 09:24
The only person being wrong here, is you. Egosoft just confirmed that they are, in fact, using EMotion FX to create the .xac files.

That means, the character pipeline will most likely stay out of modders hands until the pipeline got changed. The files you are hoping for, are most likely only concerning ships and stations. But I guess Egosoft devs will, in time, also clear that up completely.
Uhm nope, that was my question, and the answer only refers to XPM files (morph animation), my question about the other formats remained unanswered, as i was hoping for something that isn't known by the community. XAC still is 3DS MAX, as far as i understand.
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Re: Impact of 6.0 beta on mods

Post by SpaceWeebCommando » Mon, 10. Apr 23, 19:56

The introduction of the new physics engine does break the current ship mods and will require some extra work from modders for sure. I can only guess that it will require changing the model for collision layer for each ship, or at the very least re-converting the mesh from dae to xml using the new tool. However I do think its a great thing for the game and a very reasonable choice overall that will improve things significantly in the long run. Including modding. Based on my limited understanding of it, it should do wonders for performance and maybe even enable a fighter wing to fly in visually pleasing formations 5 to 15 meters from each-other. Not sure just how much can it realistically change for the capital ship movement though, might be a lot, might be a little. Probably it would help with and streamline docking to stations and ship-to-ship. One thing for sure- without such radical change there's a hard ceiling that you can't get passed once you reach it. You could make low-lod versions of the model exponentially bigger, to make them more noticeable from a distance, like the devs of Homeworld games did for the fighters and corvettes. But such visual tricks won't fix movement issues. Obviously that's just my limited perspective on it, so take it with a grain of salt.

Having an improved way to convert ship meshes built from scratch in blender into the game and having them just work without additional improvisation and fixes is simply amazing from when I am standing. I am a newcomer to X4 modding, and lacking extensive experience from modding previous games, trying to figure out how to do everything so it actually works is a daunting task. It wouldn't be at all possible if not for just how amazing and helpful X4 community is. It's probably easy to overlook for someone who spent years navigating their way around the game's internal files, but just having a set-up example ship mesh file, with clear, straightforward explanations and some basic instructions for blender, is a gamechanger for a noobie modder. I think it's great the devs are making the effort to make that happen. And what better time to do it then when changing of the game engine by necessity requires to re-learn some of the process anyways?

Anyway, this was already mentioned in this thread, but from my efforts on making my ships working in 6.0 beta I can confirm that changing weapon and module tags makes it possible to equip the subsystems properly again. For anyone with a lot of ships I recommend using Notepad++, which has Replace Text functionality that can make things much, much easier and above all faster. This change will not make ship mods playable though, you can select and equip them from Create New Game menu, but the game simply won't load normally (I usually get a freeze when loading the game this way). Hopefully the collision stuff will be a quick fix too.
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Re: Impact of 6.0 beta on mods

Post by Flippi » Tue, 11. Apr 23, 10:11

Uhm nope, that was my question, and the answer only refers to XPM files (morph animation), my question about the other formats remained unanswered, as i was hoping for something that isn't known by the community. XAC still is 3DS MAX, as far as i understand.
No, they are not. Just for reference. The guy who made the converter tool back in XR days, calls the .xac files EMotion FX Actors. And linolafetts answer is pretty clear that he means all the files that were mentioned in the thread. At least it's pretty clear to me, since he didn't specify any further.

Big Edit: Just to clarify things in a more accurate manner. I do believe that the character meshes themselves (purely the geometry and textures), are created in 3DS Max. But those are unfinished and unuseable for anyone and anything. I do strongly believe however, that the Rigging process (putting a skeleton inside the mesh to allow for animation and movement) is done in EMotion FX. WIthout that part, any Character mesh is nothing more than a Statue in an A-Pose or T-Pose. That means, the .xac files are the character meshes in their fully rigged game ready state and exactly the ones that would be needed for any type of modding. And those are the ones coming from EMotion FX.

But anyway. The release of 6.00 and the new dlc is very soon. So Egosoft might give out new info on the tools and documentation they want to provide for now. And as it currently stands, that mainly means tools and documentation for the ship pipeline if I understood the devs correctly. Which is the majority of assets in this game anyway, and what modders probably want the most right now.
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Re: Impact of 6.0 beta on mods

Post by Axeface » Tue, 11. Apr 23, 17:27

So I'm wondering/anticipating issues with backwards compatibility. Will a mod that has been updated to 6.0 be backwards compatible with 5.x? I dont know whether to release new mods for 6.0 rather than updating old ones.

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Re: Impact of 6.0 beta on mods

Post by Flippi » Tue, 11. Apr 23, 17:37

So I'm wondering/anticipating issues with backwards compatibility. Will a mod that has been updated to 6.0 be backwards compatible with 5.x? I dont know whether to release new mods for 6.0 rather than updating old ones.
I would expect the worst case scenario and say no. It seems that the new game version might change things a bit too much. So depending on how things turn out, some modders might need to have two versions of their mods. One for 5.10 and before, and then a version for 6.00+. Not sure if that would be worth the effort though.

All i know is, that my current game won't be working for a while until all the mods are updated (like your ships, the XR ships and a good chunk of other mods). So... I guess I'll wait until then. At least I have some time until I go buy the new dlc.

I personally hope the devs give us new info about the state of affairs in terms of modding. I am curious to see what exactly they want to release to help out the modding community.
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Re: Impact of 6.0 beta on mods

Post by user1679 » Tue, 11. Apr 23, 22:01

Axeface wrote:
Tue, 11. Apr 23, 17:27
So I'm wondering/anticipating issues with backwards compatibility. Will a mod that has been updated to 6.0 be backwards compatible with 5.x? I dont know whether to release new mods for 6.0 rather than updating old ones.
I would say it's not likely. If the 6.0 ships need updated navmesh and collision to work with the new physics engine, you most likely would run into problems with those on a 5.x version of the game. I haven't seen any indication in this thread that the original navmesh and collision data is preserved.

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Re: Impact of 6.0 beta on mods

Post by balogt » Wed, 12. Apr 23, 20:55

so i have 875 hours on save on 5.1, just updated to kingdom end and nothing works (ships engines etc, even in game vanilla ships cant buy any engines guns shields etc) so the game is 100% unplayable. i hear ships and parts need a standard tag, as a modder i looked for where said tag is but cannot find to add it to the necessary files. does anyone know where to add so i can spend the hours doing ti so i can play. i left this game 4 yerars agi because of this and came back a month ago, now it looks like i leave it again for years. what are the devs doing to mess this up. every other game iv made mods for has never dynamically altered things to this level so mods are not a simple fix to go on. sheesh. but any help onthis would be great, before i lose faith again.

PS. is it possible to uninstall 6.0 and go back to 5.1 until such time as its common knowledge on how to update older ship and parts mods to the new 6.0? i dont mind waiting a few years to play kingdom end as long as i can play et all now.

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Re: Impact of 6.0 beta on mods

Post by DJ_D » Wed, 12. Apr 23, 21:24

To go back to 5.10 or any other previous version, right click on steam on x4 -> properties -> betas -> choose the game version you want from the drop down menu. And thats it. Its downloading the previous files andafter thats done, its downgraded to the version you chose and everything should work again for now.
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