[MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

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Shuulo
Posts: 791
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Mon, 9. Dec 19, 00:15

phrozen1 wrote:
Sun, 8. Dec 19, 03:13
I'm playing with 3.0 Beta at the moment and it's literally a shocking contrast.
Your mod makes it so much more fun and i can't stop thinking, this is how the combat should work in the first place.
So keep up the great work, looking forward to play X4:SV with your mod ;)
And i hope X4 vanilla combat gets a total overhaul at some point because it's a joke ;)
Thanks, I also hope vanilla will take something from my view at some point.
For now im working on VRO 2.0 with many-many changes, like a dozen new weapons, internal shield generators, totally overhauled missiles and more. Here is some tease.

Max Bain
Posts: 520
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x3ap

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Max Bain » Mon, 9. Dec 19, 00:40

Hi, I got a question about this part of your changelog:
Note: M turrets are still not destructible as provided fix in 2.6 was not as good as I hoped, ill continue tests and will try to find a solution.
Why dont you just buff the HP of the modules? I did that for all destructable modules (shields, engines, turrets) and I think its better than making them completely indestructable.

Another question:
Where is the gattling gun M sized turret? Your names are a bit confusing because no one knows what kind of weapon a CIWS or Hunter turret is.

Nice mod!
X4 Editor (view stats of objects and make your own mod within a few clicks) viewtopic.php?f=181&t=421306
XR Ship Pack (adds several ships from XR) viewtopic.php?f=181&t=419641
Weapon Pack (adds several new weapons) viewtopic.php?f=181&t=421266

Shuulo
Posts: 791
Joined: Mon, 14. Apr 08, 17:03
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Mon, 9. Dec 19, 02:55

Max Bain wrote:
Mon, 9. Dec 19, 00:40
Hi, I got a question about this part of your changelog:
Note: M turrets are still not destructible as provided fix in 2.6 was not as good as I hoped, ill continue tests and will try to find a solution.
Why dont you just buff the HP of the modules? I did that for all destructable modules (shields, engines, turrets) and I think its better than making them completely indestructable.

Another question:
Where is the gattling gun M sized turret? Your names are a bit confusing because no one knows what kind of weapon a CIWS or Hunter turret is.

Nice mod!
Turrets are destructible as of 2.0 (that will be released somewhere alongside 3.0), so no worries, their HP and OOS combat parameters around them are also updated. Just buffing turret HP without adjusting OOS combat parameters gives ships HP buffer, so ships with more turrets actually will have more HP in OOS than those that have less turrets, even if by hull stats its the opposite.

Not all guns have turret counterparts, while CIWS is gatling it has different stats and behavior, and I thought CIWS is a perfect name for it both in function and role. As for hunter turret, I just liked the name, its just a general turret, Jack-of-all-trades, it is also not represented in non-turreted version.

And boost is back, just in case you are wondering.

Max Bain
Posts: 520
Joined: Wed, 27. Jun 18, 19:05
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Max Bain » Mon, 9. Dec 19, 07:51

I suggest to give the weapons an additional tag in the name or at least in the description so players don't need to try the weapon to know what it is.

Something like:
CIWS - Gatling turret / Autocannon
Hunter - Laser turret
X4 Editor (view stats of objects and make your own mod within a few clicks) viewtopic.php?f=181&t=421306
XR Ship Pack (adds several ships from XR) viewtopic.php?f=181&t=419641
Weapon Pack (adds several new weapons) viewtopic.php?f=181&t=421266

Max Bain
Posts: 520
Joined: Wed, 27. Jun 18, 19:05
x3ap

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Max Bain » Tue, 10. Dec 19, 19:36

When can we expect new M sized turrets? :D
I think these are the most used weapons in mid - late game but there are only 6 turrets + 2 missiles.
Some more are very much appreciated :)

One idea:

- Long range artillery gun with low ROF but big damage

Big suggestion:

- Add pictures to the turrets. I think you dont need to create your own pics because the models are already copies of exiting ones, so taking the same pic would be perfect.
X4 Editor (view stats of objects and make your own mod within a few clicks) viewtopic.php?f=181&t=421306
XR Ship Pack (adds several ships from XR) viewtopic.php?f=181&t=419641
Weapon Pack (adds several new weapons) viewtopic.php?f=181&t=421266

Shuulo
Posts: 791
Joined: Mon, 14. Apr 08, 17:03
x4

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Tue, 10. Dec 19, 19:59

Max Bain wrote:
Tue, 10. Dec 19, 19:36
When can we expect new M sized turrets? :D
I think these are the most used weapons in mid - late game but there are only 6 turrets + 2 missiles.
Some more are very much appreciated :)

One idea:

- Long range artillery gun with low ROF but big damage

Big suggestion:

- Add pictures to the turrets. I think you dont need to create your own pics because the models are already copies of exiting ones, so taking the same pic would be perfect.
Updating pictures is in plan, and will come after all balancing is done.
As for m-turrets, I consider argons to have flak, paranids railgun and thinking on teladies, any idea?

Max Bain
Posts: 520
Joined: Wed, 27. Jun 18, 19:05
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Max Bain » Tue, 10. Dec 19, 20:12

Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 10. Dec 19, 19:59
Max Bain wrote:
Tue, 10. Dec 19, 19:36
When can we expect new M sized turrets? :D
I think these are the most used weapons in mid - late game but there are only 6 turrets + 2 missiles.
Some more are very much appreciated :)

One idea:

- Long range artillery gun with low ROF but big damage

Big suggestion:

- Add pictures to the turrets. I think you dont need to create your own pics because the models are already copies of exiting ones, so taking the same pic would be perfect.
Updating pictures is in plan, and will come after all balancing is done.
As for m-turrets, I consider argons to have flak, paranids railgun and thinking on teladies, any idea?
You can give races more than just one unique different weapon/turret.
For example you can make teladi focus on beam weapons, so giving them several different turrets shooting with different colored beams, some with bursts, some without.
Argons have more common used kinetic weapons like gatling guns or artillery/cannon weapons.
Paranidmaybe focus on lasers or plasma with different colors, bursts or single shots.

But all factions should have at least one version of most weapon type (like they do right now) so combat looks more interesting and some people (like me) want to have a big variation on the ships while playing just one race.

Edit: maybe it is also a cnice idea to identify races by their weapon color:
Argons use red and yellow-ish projectiles/beams
Teladi use blue and purple weapons
Paranid maybe green
Neutral colors like gatling guns or shotgun are for all factions the same maybe.
X4 Editor (view stats of objects and make your own mod within a few clicks) viewtopic.php?f=181&t=421306
XR Ship Pack (adds several ships from XR) viewtopic.php?f=181&t=419641
Weapon Pack (adds several new weapons) viewtopic.php?f=181&t=421266

Shuulo
Posts: 791
Joined: Mon, 14. Apr 08, 17:03
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Wed, 11. Dec 19, 00:13

I also need to consider proper role and balance for each weapon, having just more of them is not the best thing if their purpose and/or role and/or feel is blurred. I want them to be distinct and balanced, this takes a bit of time to think though)
At least in VRO 2.0 i have 3 new turrets, 2 new M guns, 3 new S guns in addition to anything 3.0 brings

Angsaar
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Angsaar » Wed, 11. Dec 19, 02:18

Shuulo wrote:
Tue, 10. Dec 19, 19:59
As for m-turrets, I consider argons to have flak, paranids railgun and thinking on teladies, any idea?
Something energy with good accuracy and sustain, maybe ? Not wasting resources on ammo seems fitting with Teladi efficiency.

Max Bain
Posts: 520
Joined: Wed, 27. Jun 18, 19:05
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Max Bain » Wed, 11. Dec 19, 11:33

One thing I noticed is that all ships nearly always mount just one type of M sized turrets. I checked it for 8 Paranid ships and all ships had Plasma turrets mounted for their M sized turrets. Argon ships seem to use just flak turrets.
I think this is a vanilla problem, but maybe you can do something about it?

When I remember right, someone told me that this has something to do with the prices of the turrets. Because Plasma turret is most expensive for Paranids (they dont have the more expensive flak) they have only plasma. Flak is more expensive so all Argons use flak.
X4 Editor (view stats of objects and make your own mod within a few clicks) viewtopic.php?f=181&t=421306
XR Ship Pack (adds several ships from XR) viewtopic.php?f=181&t=419641
Weapon Pack (adds several new weapons) viewtopic.php?f=181&t=421266

Shuulo
Posts: 791
Joined: Mon, 14. Apr 08, 17:03
x4

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Wed, 11. Dec 19, 13:05

Max Bain wrote:
Wed, 11. Dec 19, 11:33
One thing I noticed is that all ships nearly always mount just one type of M sized turrets. I checked it for 8 Paranid ships and all ships had Plasma turrets mounted for their M sized turrets. Argon ships seem to use just flak turrets.
I think this is a vanilla problem, but maybe you can do something about it?

When I remember right, someone told me that this has something to do with the prices of the turrets. Because Plasma turret is most expensive for Paranids (they dont have the more expensive flak) they have only plasma. Flak is more expensive so all Argons use flak.
Working on it today.

Nomad15A
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu, 28. Nov 13, 04:55

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Nomad15A » Fri, 3. Jan 20, 19:51

This mod appears to cause a hang on all "exit's to desktop" and many save loads. Unsure whats going on with it but confirmed that it is this mod. I do have a plethora of other mods enabled.

Shuulo
Posts: 791
Joined: Mon, 14. Apr 08, 17:03
x4

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Fri, 3. Jan 20, 20:38

Nomad15A wrote:
Fri, 3. Jan 20, 19:51
This mod appears to cause a hang on all "exit's to desktop" and many save loads. Unsure whats going on with it but confirmed that it is this mod. I do have a plethora of other mods enabled.
Are you on 3.0 beta? On what version did you start the save? Did you start with VRO already enabled or enabled it later in the game?
give me the list of mods as well, VRO changes a lot so if you use a lot of mods its quite possible there is a conflict.

Nomad15A
Posts: 6
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Nomad15A » Sat, 4. Jan 20, 10:23

Sorry, I should have indicated:

3.0 beta
New start

Link to pics of my extensions. Like I mentioned, I do have a lot of extensions enabled (yours turned off for now). Its very possible that its just a conflict. And also it is beta 3.0

https://imgur.com/a/QEnVIKU

Cheers and thanks for the work on this mod. It certainly is great :)

Shuulo
Posts: 791
Joined: Mon, 14. Apr 08, 17:03
x4

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Sat, 4. Jan 20, 14:44

Nomad15A wrote:
Sat, 4. Jan 20, 10:23
Sorry, I should have indicated:

3.0 beta
New start

Link to pics of my extensions. Like I mentioned, I do have a lot of extensions enabled (yours turned off for now). Its very possible that its just a conflict. And also it is beta 3.0

https://imgur.com/a/QEnVIKU

Cheers and thanks for the work on this mod. It certainly is great :)
First and most important, this mod is for 2.6 game version, this is mentioned on first page. VRO 2.0 for 3.0 game is currently in beta and is not released publicly.

Second, mods below conflict with VRO and may cause unintended behavior:
Improved Behemoth, Bombers, Scouts, Defense drones
Rebalance mining plus (though not sure about that one)
drone variety

Also, ROR and XR shippack are unbalanced with VRO, XR shippack will have a patch after next version of VRO is released.

You have a lot of mods that overlap in one part or another, making game unstable as hell and may cause many problems.

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