[MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

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unit757
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by unit757 » Tue, 4. Jun 19, 20:53

Love this mod!

One suggestion though, would it be possible to look at reducing the ROF of tracking turrets to half of what they are now? Or even a third? HOP ships seem to be able to punch WAY above their weight because they fit nothing but tracking turrets and heavy lances, and the volume of missiles they spew out is insane.

It wouldn't be so bad if the missile defense command wasn't useless, but this isn't a perfect world.

Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Sun, 9. Jun 19, 01:55

Version 1.62
- updated previously untouched Khaak weapons in line with other modded weapons
- some bugfixes
Balance pass:
- all missiles reload time increased 2x times, to compensate damage increased as well
- Xenon K will now have 4 additional M turrets on its top (only for newly built Ks)
- Slightly increased HP of K
- Slightly increased HP of I
- Slightly increased damage output of Xenon Obliterator Beam
- Decreased HP of Odysseys

Scoob
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Scoob » Sun, 9. Jun 19, 02:16

Thanks for the update, downloading now.

Scoob.

Scoob
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Scoob » Sun, 16. Jun 19, 02:54

Hi,

I just fitted some "Heavy Lance" turrets to my Odysseus and, when they fire, they hit the Odysseus its self, damaging the ship.

I have this turret installed in all four large emplacements and all appeared to hit the ship.

Note that the turrets themselves don't appear to take any Shield or Hull damage, but the mothership does. I will keep testing to see if this happens consistently. I know sometimes a turret can hit the ship it's on even in vanilla, but it's quite rare. For all FOUR large Turrets on the Odysseus to hit the ship - considering the different firing angles when attacking a single target - is a little odd.

Edit: After a little more testing, it seems that the initial strike on a new target hits the mothership and subsequent shots work ok. Only been testing for a few minutes though. Scratch that. Every few shots, irrespective of firing angle are hitting the mothership. Watching more closely, the source of the beam does not move with the ship. So, if the ship is in motion, the beam starts, then clips some of the ship model as the ship moves. I think this is what's happening each time. Ship is under AI control for testing.

Cheers,

Scoob.

Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Sun, 16. Jun 19, 11:47

Scoob wrote:
Sun, 16. Jun 19, 02:54
Hi,

I just fitted some "Heavy Lance" turrets to my Odysseus and, when they fire, they hit the Odysseus its self, damaging the ship.

I have this turret installed in all four large emplacements and all appeared to hit the ship.

Note that the turrets themselves don't appear to take any Shield or Hull damage, but the mothership does. I will keep testing to see if this happens consistently. I know sometimes a turret can hit the ship it's on even in vanilla, but it's quite rare. For all FOUR large Turrets on the Odysseus to hit the ship - considering the different firing angles when attacking a single target - is a little odd.

Edit: After a little more testing, it seems that the initial strike on a new target hits the mothership and subsequent shots work ok. Only been testing for a few minutes though. Scratch that. Every few shots, irrespective of firing angle are hitting the mothership. Watching more closely, the source of the beam does not move with the ship. So, if the ship is in motion, the beam starts, then clips some of the ship model as the ship moves. I think this is what's happening each time. Ship is under AI control for testing.

Cheers,

Scoob.
Agree, it seems to be a problem, looks like I have no choice as to make Heavy lances a real beam.will update in next version.

Scoob
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Scoob » Sun, 16. Jun 19, 14:43

Shuulo wrote:
Sun, 16. Jun 19, 11:47
Agree, it seems to be a problem, looks like I have no choice as to make Heavy lances a real beam.will update in next version.
The current beam looks dead cool when it works, shame it needs to be changed. I'll likely swap out my load-out for the time being.

As mentioned, I do see the same effect on certain M-Class Beam turrets - the beam not moving with the ships movement I mean - but because those beams have a shorter life time, it just looks a bit odd and rarely hits the firing ship.

Scoob.

Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Sun, 16. Jun 19, 15:26

The problem with real beams is that they are hard to balance and AI usage can be wacky. Though I guess its still better than make ships kill themselves.

Scoob
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Scoob » Sun, 16. Jun 19, 15:51

Is the Xenon beam weapon, as used by Xenon K's, what you consider a "real" beam weapon? While watching K's using the external camera, I've not noticed the issue the Heavy Lance experiences. It is a very cool weapon in its own right of course, love those Xenon beams.

If the Heavy Lance became a different coloured (for example) version of the Xenon beam, which somewhat different stats, then it'd be a very cool weapon indeed.

Just want to add, I really appreciate the effort you've put into this mod, it's proven a total game-changer for me and I very much doubt I'd be wanting to play X4 quite as much without it. It really is how X4 *should* have been in my view.

Scoob.

Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Sat, 22. Jun 19, 12:23

Version 1.7
NEW:
- new Xenon long-range large turret mounted only on I and stations.
Changed:
- Heavy Lance is now a real beam, while its AI usage can sometimes be weird it should be fine in general, and this also resolves the issue with self-hitting with it.
Balance pass:
- very minor tweak to DPS of some weapons
- Oddy nerfed once more, HP and shield power
- small update to loadout rules, now even more varied.

Scoob
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Scoob » Sun, 23. Jun 19, 13:10

Thanks for the update.

Scoob.

Ragemaster9999
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Ragemaster9999 » Fri, 5. Jul 19, 05:52

Fighter vs fighter combat 1 on 1 vs xenon in particular is awful. They turn too quick and its almost impossible to land shots on them. I think the accuracy of the s guns vs fighter size targets need to be improved. Have tried fighting N and M in both a nova and elite vangaurd and they fly in sharp circles around you, due to their insane turn speed.

Edit: I looked up xenon m in the enyclopedia and it has a maximum turn rate of 30 degrees per second. My nova vanguard has a yaw of 32.9, so I should be able to barely out turn a xenon M, however that is not the case at all. They turn so sharp I cant keep on them for any more then a second or two. Something isn't adding up.

Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Fri, 5. Jul 19, 09:52

Ragemaster9999 wrote:
Fri, 5. Jul 19, 05:52
Fighter vs fighter combat 1 on 1 vs xenon in particular is awful. They turn too quick and its almost impossible to land shots on them. I think the accuracy of the s guns vs fighter size targets need to be improved. Have tried fighting N and M in both a nova and elite vangaurd and they fly in sharp circles around you, due to their insane turn speed.

Edit: I looked up xenon m in the enyclopedia and it has a maximum turn rate of 30 degrees per second. My nova vanguard has a yaw of 32.9, so I should be able to barely out turn a xenon M, however that is not the case at all. They turn so sharp I cant keep on them for any more then a second or two. Something isn't adding up.
Thanks for the feedback, i noticed it too. Originally i planned xenons to be very maneuverable as they do not have pilots so do not care about G overload, though it seems to have a bit of an impact on how combat is progressing, so I may change them a bit.
Also, are you sure you are fighting them with correct weapons? some heavy guns are really not made for anti-fighter duty. Also, do not try to fight them in Elite, even N is more powerful than that - you are in disadvantage and will not win easily.

rosssack
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by rosssack » Fri, 5. Jul 19, 11:51

hi great mod ,,,I was driving a behemoth ,it had a problem blowing up its own drones wen launching ,,,in combat don't now if its your mod are ai problem

Shuulo
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Shuulo » Fri, 5. Jul 19, 12:19

rosssack wrote:
Fri, 5. Jul 19, 11:51
hi great mod ,,,I was driving a behemoth ,it had a problem blowing up its own drones wen launching ,,,in combat don't now if its your mod are ai problem
Its AI, mine did the same in vanilla.

Ragemaster9999
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Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO)

Post by Ragemaster9999 » Fri, 5. Jul 19, 16:06

Shuulo wrote:
Fri, 5. Jul 19, 09:52
Ragemaster9999 wrote:
Fri, 5. Jul 19, 05:52
Fighter vs fighter combat 1 on 1 vs xenon in particular is awful. They turn too quick and its almost impossible to land shots on them. I think the accuracy of the s guns vs fighter size targets need to be improved. Have tried fighting N and M in both a nova and elite vangaurd and they fly in sharp circles around you, due to their insane turn speed.

Edit: I looked up xenon m in the enyclopedia and it has a maximum turn rate of 30 degrees per second. My nova vanguard has a yaw of 32.9, so I should be able to barely out turn a xenon M, however that is not the case at all. They turn so sharp I cant keep on them for any more then a second or two. Something isn't adding up.
Thanks for the feedback, i noticed it too. Originally i planned xenons to be very maneuverable as they do not have pilots so do not care about G overload, though it seems to have a bit of an impact on how combat is progressing, so I may change them a bit.
Also, are you sure you are fighting them with correct weapons? some heavy guns are really not made for anti-fighter duty. Also, do not try to fight them in Elite, even N is more powerful than that - you are in disadvantage and will not win easily.
I have used both a chaingun and a burst cannon to little effect vs the xenon fighters. Burst cannon was slightly better, but both weapons suffered horribly and the chaingun in particular could almost never hit any xenon fighters. I had much more success killing paranid fighters compared to xenon. Also the the default pea shooter the blaster, I found to be entirely worthless. I would consider giving it a damage boost.

edit: After doing more testing it seems the HULL amount on fighters at the least seem very high. I spend far more time whittling down their hull then I do lowering their shields. This combined with low accuracy of small weapons vs small ships makes fighter fights incredibly slow to resolve. Also the fighter shield regen is really slow it seems. Have you tried higher shield regen vs lower hull?

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