[MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 4.x

The place to discuss scripting and game modifications for X4: Foundations.

Moderators: Moderators for English X Forum, Scripting / Modding Moderators

Chris0132
Posts: 1463
Joined: Sun, 22. Jun 08, 01:25
xr

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Chris0132 » Fri, 19. Mar 21, 11:11

Shuulo wrote:
Thu, 18. Mar 21, 17:53
Chris0132 wrote:
Thu, 18. Mar 21, 17:38
I also am still having issues with the geometric owl not being upgradable with mod version 3.02, however I managed to get around it by selecting a preset loadout and then manully deselecting all changes except for the internal shield generator. I can't select the internal shield generator when it is missing (attempting to view the slot shows only the search box, no options available) but once you do the preset trick, apply the changes, it then shows up and seems to work fine. Whatever the issue is it appears to be just with the UI because the wharf was able to apply the upgrade, it's just the UI bugs out a bit when you try to select it as a component if you are flying a ship which does not have its internal generator installed.

I recomment using presets to solve the internal slot being nonfunctional in the UI as a workaround, and I hope this helps with the troubleshooting.
hm, i managed to upgrade such ships just fine in wharf, what is the UI issue?
As I said the internal shield just doesn't show up to be selected when I try to upgrade a ship that was generated by the game without the internal shield installed. It works perfectly for new ships I order to be built, but when upgrading a ship that doesn't have one, the space where the shield would normally be selectable when you switch to the internal shield slot, is simply blank. But as I said the wharf can fit them, and it somehow adds it to be fitted if I set the ship to a preset rather than trying to select the shield manually.

I will try and clear out my directory of any possible old versions and reupdate the mod to the latest version and see if that fixes it.

User avatar
Shuulo
Posts: 1629
Joined: Mon, 14. Apr 08, 17:03
x4

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Fri, 19. Mar 21, 14:05

Patch 3.0.4
- fixed Magpie missing internal shield
- fixed Heavy scatter gun being heavy instead of light weapon
- fixed price of Meson lance

Scoob
Posts: 9921
Joined: Thu, 27. Feb 03, 22:28
x4

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Scoob » Fri, 19. Mar 21, 16:15

Thanks for the update.

Scoob.

Sam97531
Posts: 257
Joined: Fri, 19. Nov 10, 06:23
x4

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Sam97531 » Sat, 20. Mar 21, 14:39

I like strong Terran internal gens.

But perhaps the 5000 strong (Kali) should be toned down to 2.5k? It’s currently stronger than 3 actual shield gens-

This becomes especially pronounced considering the kali can carry 4 shield gens... it ends up 16k shields!

Just an observation -

User avatar
Shuulo
Posts: 1629
Joined: Mon, 14. Apr 08, 17:03
x4

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Sat, 20. Mar 21, 17:15

Patch 3.0.5
- reworked OOS calc, station should now damage ships properly. Note that its impossible make OOS completely the same as IS due to how it works, and main calculations for it are hardcoded so i do what I can.
- fixed some missing effects references

User avatar
Shuulo
Posts: 1629
Joined: Mon, 14. Apr 08, 17:03
x4

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Sat, 20. Mar 21, 17:16

Sam97531 wrote:
Sat, 20. Mar 21, 14:39
I like strong Terran internal gens.

But perhaps the 5000 strong (Kali) should be toned down to 2.5k? It’s currently stronger than 3 actual shield gens-

This becomes especially pronounced considering the kali can carry 4 shield gens... it ends up 16k shields!

Just an observation -
its also one of the slowest heavy fighters and has only 2 weapons, that is the weakest from all heavy fighters. Shields is the only thing that it has to it really.

Sam97531
Posts: 257
Joined: Fri, 19. Nov 10, 06:23
x4

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Sam97531 » Sat, 20. Mar 21, 17:45

Valid points :)

I’m actually not a big fan because of those weaknesses.

Side question - with VRO do you have particular Terran only or is it simply by type/size?

User avatar
Shuulo
Posts: 1629
Joined: Mon, 14. Apr 08, 17:03
x4

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Sat, 20. Mar 21, 19:39

Sam97531 wrote:
Sat, 20. Mar 21, 17:45

Side question - with VRO do you have particular Terran only or is it simply by type/size?
Terran only what?

Sam97531
Posts: 257
Joined: Fri, 19. Nov 10, 06:23
x4

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Sam97531 » Sat, 20. Mar 21, 23:38

Somehow missed that word. Weapons.

I noticed the weapon slots seem to be colour-coded by class. Do you have further restrictions on Terran weapons to be Terran ship mountable only?

User avatar
Shuulo
Posts: 1629
Joined: Mon, 14. Apr 08, 17:03
x4

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Sun, 21. Mar 21, 01:13

Sam97531 wrote:
Sat, 20. Mar 21, 23:38
Somehow missed that word. Weapons.

I noticed the weapon slots seem to be colour-coded by class. Do you have further restrictions on Terran weapons to be Terran ship mountable only?
Yes, S and M highpower (heavy) weapons are only for terran ships, EMPCs, graviton, meson

Starman01
Posts: 186
Joined: Wed, 20. Jun 07, 13:56
x4

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Starman01 » Sun, 21. Mar 21, 12:28

I would like to ask something for better understanding, and maybe, if I'm right, suggest a small balance improvement. I love using the annihilator turret, it looks really great in the battle. But you can only buy it as allie to a faction, so i usually work towards it. But by looking at the numbers, I'm not sure about the usefullness compared to the fusion burst turret that i can buy right from the beginning, so maybe I read the numbers wrong.

Annihilator bullet does more damage than fusion burst, but this is the only increase. Fusion burst bullet is faster (and more chance to hit with that), more range and the turret fires faster, nearly once per second (0,83) while the annihilator only fires once every 3 seconds (0,29). Am I reading this correctly, or do I have a wrong interpretation of the numbers ? Otherwise it would be neat if the annihilator could be improved a bit to justify cost and repution required.

Also (I'm sure I'm going to annoy you now :) ), the "geometric owl" still can't be upgraded with an internat shield generator. The shipyard offers no selection. Using your latest version available on nexus.

User avatar
Shuulo
Posts: 1629
Joined: Mon, 14. Apr 08, 17:03
x4

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Sun, 21. Mar 21, 12:43

Starman01 wrote:
Sun, 21. Mar 21, 12:28
I would like to ask something for better understanding, and maybe, if I'm right, suggest a small balance improvement. I love using the annihilator turret, it looks really great in the battle. But you can only buy it as allie to a faction, so i usually work towards it. But by looking at the numbers, I'm not sure about the usefullness compared to the fusion burst turret that i can buy right from the beginning, so maybe I read the numbers wrong.

Annihilator bullet does more damage than fusion burst, but this is the only increase. Fusion burst bullet is faster (and more chance to hit with that), more range and the turret fires faster, nearly once per second (0,83) while the annihilator only fires once every 3 seconds (0,29). Am I reading this correctly, or do I have a wrong interpretation of the numbers ? Otherwise it would be neat if the annihilator could be improved a bit to justify cost and repution required.

Also (I'm sure I'm going to annoy you now :) ), the "geometric owl" still can't be upgraded with an internat shield generator. The shipyard offers no selection. Using your latest version available on nexus.
For Geometric Owl - use any preset first and then update it as you see fit, it should equip it automatically.

Annihilator - damage in Ecncylopedia is DPS, not per shot, so annihilator is just more powerful, especialy against shields to counter fast regen on larger ships, so their usage is quite different. Fusion is all-rounder but is not particularly strong, annihilator will melt capital ships shields way faster.

Starman01
Posts: 186
Joined: Wed, 20. Jun 07, 13:56
x4

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Starman01 » Sun, 21. Mar 21, 13:15

Ah, the damage number is damage per seconds, that makes sense. I had the feeling the that the annihilator is much stronger when used.

Thanks for the tip with the geometric owl, i was now able to change it's equippment. The internal shield generator is still not shown in the module list, but it is included in the value stats below and the ship is now useable.

Thanks again for your great mod :)

sanctific
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri, 7. Dec 18, 11:44

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by sanctific » Sun, 21. Mar 21, 23:11

Not sure if anyone already commented on this but Xenon are much, much, MUCH weaker in OOS calc since CoH VRO update compared to what they used to be in pre-CoH VRO.

May you please have a look at xenon OOS battle calculation values? Yeah, i know that most of the stuff is hard-coded yet still, difference in Xenon power is so noticeable that I'm ready to enable Xenon Apocalypse in FOCW and manually edit those jobs to x2...kidding tho, that isn't the wisest idea for countless reasons. Still, something is very wrong with Xenons OOS combat (well, wrong compared to what it used to be anyhow).

User avatar
Shuulo
Posts: 1629
Joined: Mon, 14. Apr 08, 17:03
x4

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Sun, 21. Mar 21, 23:47

sanctific wrote:
Sun, 21. Mar 21, 23:11
Not sure if anyone already commented on this but Xenon are much, much, MUCH weaker in OOS calc since CoH VRO update compared to what they used to be in pre-CoH VRO.

May you please have a look at xenon OOS battle calculation values? Yeah, i know that most of the stuff is hard-coded yet still, difference in Xenon power is so noticeable that I'm ready to enable Xenon Apocalypse in FOCW and manually edit those jobs to x2...kidding tho, that isn't the wisest idea for countless reasons. Still, something is very wrong with Xenons OOS combat (well, wrong compared to what it used to be anyhow).
Just yesterday I updated OOS calc to be closer to IS, especially for stations. I noticed also Xenon K destroyed faction destroyers just fine. Did you try new version?

sanctific
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri, 7. Dec 18, 11:44

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by sanctific » Mon, 22. Mar 21, 11:19

Shuulo wrote:
Sun, 21. Mar 21, 23:47
sanctific wrote:
Sun, 21. Mar 21, 23:11
Not sure if anyone already commented on this but Xenon are much, much, MUCH weaker in OOS calc since CoH VRO update compared to what they used to be in pre-CoH VRO.

May you please have a look at xenon OOS battle calculation values? Yeah, i know that most of the stuff is hard-coded yet still, difference in Xenon power is so noticeable that I'm ready to enable Xenon Apocalypse in FOCW and manually edit those jobs to x2...kidding tho, that isn't the wisest idea for countless reasons. Still, something is very wrong with Xenons OOS combat (well, wrong compared to what it used to be anyhow).
Just yesterday I updated OOS calc to be closer to IS, especially for stations. I noticed also Xenon K destroyed faction destroyers just fine. Did you try new version?
Thanks for prompt feedback, Shuulo!

Yeah, I'm running 3.0.5 version of VRO now (thanks for the great mod!!).

Well, I'll give two examples which I've seen recently and which are more or less objective (in terms of not so many variables being present).

1. Example one - 3 Ps & 4 Ms were killing 1 Cerberus (I mean it, Cerberus was all alone there vs Xenon) for nearly 7 minutes (not SETA-ed). Two Ms were killed, 1 P lost its shields and 50% of hull. Thats OOS, IS - Cerberus would be dead in 30 sec with Xenon not breaking a sweat.
2. Example two - 1 P & 3-4 fighters M/N fought vs ~6-7 ARG Novas & Quasars, not a single ARG ship was lost.

In pre-CoH VRO - both of the above scenarios would be won by Xenon IS & OOS, nowadays - IS only (Xenon are still crazy if faced IS). No conflicting mods are installed on my side (VRO, XR ship pack+XRS/VRO patch & minor QoL mods mostly from VRO wiki recommendations).

Max Bain
Posts: 1458
Joined: Wed, 27. Jun 18, 19:05
x3ap

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Max Bain » Mon, 22. Mar 21, 11:32

sanctific wrote:
Mon, 22. Mar 21, 11:19
1. Example one - 3 Ps & 4 Ms were killing 1 Cerberus (I mean it, Cerberus was all alone there vs Xenon) for nearly 7 minutes (not SETA-ed). Two Ms were killed, 1 P lost its shields and 50% of hull. Thats OOS, IS - Cerberus would be dead in 30 sec with Xenon not breaking a sweat.
2. Example two - 1 P & 3-4 fighters M/N fought vs ~6-7 ARG Novas & Quasars, not a single ARG ship was lost.

In pre-CoH VRO - both of the above scenarios would be won by Xenon IS & OOS, nowadays - IS only (Xenon are still crazy if faced IS). No conflicting mods are installed on my side (VRO, XR ship pack+XRS/VRO patch & minor QoL mods mostly from VRO wiki recommendations).
Are you sure about your statement, that in sector these fights would end completely different? Because at least from my Pre 4.0 experience, Ps and all Xenon fighters were pretty weak in sector (and OOS). 6-7 Novas and Quasars would have won against a P and 3-4 xenon fighters (would have been a long fight still). For me the result sounds not that far away from in sector results. This is all from my memories so I might be wrong, but my ecperience seems to be different than yours.
XR Ship Pack (adds several ships from XR) Link
Weapon Pack (adds several new weapons) Link
Economy Overhaul (expands the X4 economy with many new buildings) Link
X4 Editor (view stats of objects and make your own mod within a few clicks) Link

sanctific
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri, 7. Dec 18, 11:44

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by sanctific » Mon, 22. Mar 21, 12:39

Max Bain wrote:
Mon, 22. Mar 21, 11:32
sanctific wrote:
Mon, 22. Mar 21, 11:19
1. Example one - 3 Ps & 4 Ms were killing 1 Cerberus (I mean it, Cerberus was all alone there vs Xenon) for nearly 7 minutes (not SETA-ed). Two Ms were killed, 1 P lost its shields and 50% of hull. Thats OOS, IS - Cerberus would be dead in 30 sec with Xenon not breaking a sweat.
2. Example two - 1 P & 3-4 fighters M/N fought vs ~6-7 ARG Novas & Quasars, not a single ARG ship was lost.

In pre-CoH VRO - both of the above scenarios would be won by Xenon IS & OOS, nowadays - IS only (Xenon are still crazy if faced IS). No conflicting mods are installed on my side (VRO, XR ship pack+XRS/VRO patch & minor QoL mods mostly from VRO wiki recommendations).
Are you sure about your statement, that in sector these fights would end completely different? Because at least from my Pre 4.0 experience, Ps and all Xenon fighters were pretty weak in sector (and OOS). 6-7 Novas and Quasars would have won against a P and 3-4 xenon fighters (would have been a long fight still). For me the result sounds not that far away from in sector results. This is all from my memories so I might be wrong, but my ecperience seems to be different than yours.
In example 1 - yeah, Xenon would win IS in no time, even fighters shields wouldn't go below 50%.

In example 2 - ARG group won with no losses whatsoever in OOS. Yeah, in IS ARG would most likely still win but with 60-70% of their group destroyed. In OOS they raped Xenon, no ARG fighter was even remotely close to being destroyed.

Max Bain
Posts: 1458
Joined: Wed, 27. Jun 18, 19:05
x3ap

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Max Bain » Mon, 22. Mar 21, 13:20

I just spotted a balance issue with the shields in VRO, especially with MK2 and MK3 versions.
Since you added internal shield generators for free to all ships, the normal shield generators are not very well balanced in relation to their costs.

For example the Kukri has an internal shield generator with 3000 shield.
An MK1 has 2125 extra shields and a bit of regenration for an extra cost of just 2954 credits.
An Mk2 has 2600 extra shields for 25749 extra credits.
An MK3 has 2950 exztra shields for an additional 134000 credits.

So to sum it up:
for 2954 credits you get +70% extra shield. In absolute values its 5125.
for 134000 credits you get an extra +100% extra shield. In absolute values its 5950.

The Kukri itself cost 108000 credits. So you would get 2 Kukris with each 3000 shields instead of one with the MK3. Or you could spend 6k extra to get 5000 shields on each one.

That sounds a bit a no brainer to me because of the free internal shield generators.

I mean the prices are maybe ok, but MK2 and MK3 should be significantly better, so you would notice an effect (even with an internal shield generator) for your money.
XR Ship Pack (adds several ships from XR) Link
Weapon Pack (adds several new weapons) Link
Economy Overhaul (expands the X4 economy with many new buildings) Link
X4 Editor (view stats of objects and make your own mod within a few clicks) Link

User avatar
Shuulo
Posts: 1629
Joined: Mon, 14. Apr 08, 17:03
x4

Re: [MOD] Variety and Rebalance Overhaul (VRO) 2.x

Post by Shuulo » Mon, 22. Mar 21, 14:35

Max Bain wrote:
Mon, 22. Mar 21, 13:20
I just spotted a balance issue with the shields in VRO, especially with MK2 and MK3 versions.
Since you added internal shield generators for free to all ships, the normal shield generators are not very well balanced in relation to their costs.

For example the Kukri has an internal shield generator with 3000 shield.
An MK1 has 2125 extra shields and a bit of regenration for an extra cost of just 2954 credits.
An Mk2 has 2600 extra shields for 25749 extra credits.
An MK3 has 2950 exztra shields for an additional 134000 credits.

So to sum it up:
for 2954 credits you get +70% extra shield. In absolute values its 5125.
for 134000 credits you get an extra +100% extra shield. In absolute values its 5950.

The Kukri itself cost 108000 credits. So you would get 2 Kukris with each 3000 shields instead of one with the MK3. Or you could spend 6k extra to get 5000 shields on each one.

That sounds a bit a no brainer to me because of the free internal shield generators.

I mean the prices are maybe ok, but MK2 and MK3 should be significantly better, so you would notice an effect (even with an internal shield generator) for your money.
yeah, i may improve those, thanks for feedback

Post Reply

Return to “X4: Foundations - Scripts and Modding”