[MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War V. 4.0

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BlackRain
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Re: [MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War V. 4.0

Post by BlackRain » Fri, 28. Feb 20, 17:10

In my opinion, there is no reason to have random relations. It doesn't fit with what is going on in the game which is why I don't like it. Argon and Antigone would never go to war for example, Teladi just want profits and the Paranid are embroiled in a civil war which the others are allied with them. The Xenon are a threat to everyone. It makes more sense to me to have there be cease fires in the war, and sometimes hostilities breaking out, etc. Meanwhile corporations fight each other also (with my corporation mod). Also have the player have some kind of an impact on this. It doesn't make sense to have every faction randomly hating or liking each other. At least that is my vision.

tomchk
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Re: [MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War V. 4.0

Post by tomchk » Fri, 28. Feb 20, 18:02

BlackRain wrote:
Fri, 28. Feb 20, 17:10
In my opinion, there is no reason to have random relations. It doesn't fit with what is going on in the game which is why I don't like it. Argon and Antigone would never go to war for example, Teladi just want profits and the Paranid are embroiled in a civil war which the others are allied with them. The Xenon are a threat to everyone. It makes more sense to me to have there be cease fires in the war, and sometimes hostilities breaking out, etc. Meanwhile corporations fight each other also (with my corporation mod). Also have the player have some kind of an impact on this. It doesn't make sense to have every faction randomly hating or liking each other. At least that is my vision.
Agreed, very good point. Lore matters!

DeadAirRT
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Re: [MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War V. 4.0

Post by DeadAirRT » Fri, 28. Feb 20, 20:06

BlackRain wrote:
Fri, 28. Feb 20, 17:10
In my opinion, there is no reason to have random relations. It doesn't fit with what is going on in the game which is why I don't like it. Argon and Antigone would never go to war for example, Teladi just want profits and the Paranid are embroiled in a civil war which the others are allied with them. The Xenon are a threat to everyone. It makes more sense to me to have there be cease fires in the war, and sometimes hostilities breaking out, etc. Meanwhile corporations fight each other also (with my corporation mod). Also have the player have some kind of an impact on this. It doesn't make sense to have every faction randomly hating or liking each other. At least that is my vision.
Um sounds like you haven't looked at the code. It doesn't touch xenon/khaak relations, coalitions (arg/ant tel/min par/ali) don't go-to war. It has occasional peace, it has minor conflicts, it has all out war and everything in between.

Edit: Thinking about it, you may be looking less at a sand box style and more of a scripted story?

BlackRain
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Re: [MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War V. 4.0

Post by BlackRain » Fri, 28. Feb 20, 20:58

DeadAirRT wrote:
Fri, 28. Feb 20, 20:06
BlackRain wrote:
Fri, 28. Feb 20, 17:10
In my opinion, there is no reason to have random relations. It doesn't fit with what is going on in the game which is why I don't like it. Argon and Antigone would never go to war for example, Teladi just want profits and the Paranid are embroiled in a civil war which the others are allied with them. The Xenon are a threat to everyone. It makes more sense to me to have there be cease fires in the war, and sometimes hostilities breaking out, etc. Meanwhile corporations fight each other also (with my corporation mod). Also have the player have some kind of an impact on this. It doesn't make sense to have every faction randomly hating or liking each other. At least that is my vision.
Um sounds like you haven't looked at the code. It doesn't touch xenon/khaak relations, coalitions (arg/ant tel/min par/ali) don't go-to war. It has occasional peace, it has minor conflicts, it has all out war and everything in between.

Edit: Thinking about it, you may be looking less at a sand box style and more of a scripted story?
I haven't looked at the code at all yet. Just throwing ideas around, however it is my understanding that there is more randomness to what your mod does than what I would like to see. What I am talking about is the following: Teladi should never go to war with anyone, since all they care about is making money. Except of course for Xenon. Argon is technically also allied with the Godrealm against Holy order so they also wouldn't go to war. There is already a conflict going on which is the civil war and Antigone and Argon are involved in it against holy order.

In my opinion, none of this should be touched except for maybe there being ceasefires between HOP and the others occasionally and breakouts in war after a cease fire when they happen. However, the corporations I made could be played around with more and made to have more random relations, etc and of course the player with all of these factions. This is what I am thinking for my own vision of things.

I wasn't saying your mod touched xenon or Khaak or anything like that. I thought you also had argon and antigone potentially fighting though, but I was wrong about that.

DeadAirRT
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Re: [MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War V. 4.0

Post by DeadAirRT » Fri, 28. Feb 20, 21:19

Ah you are looking more to stick with the lore. It wouldn't be that hard to change my mod to your vision, honestly just a couple line deletions. I don't care about the lore very much at all; i wanted a sandbox with less of a bull fight (everyone vs hop).

The idea that teladi wouldn't go-to war strikes me as odd though. That's the single easiest way to protect their money making interests.

BlackRain
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Re: [MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War V. 4.0

Post by BlackRain » Fri, 28. Feb 20, 22:16

DeadAirRT wrote:
Fri, 28. Feb 20, 21:19
Ah you are looking more to stick with the lore. It wouldn't be that hard to change my mod to your vision, honestly just a couple line deletions. I don't care about the lore very much at all; i wanted a sandbox with less of a bull fight (everyone vs hop).

The idea that teladi wouldn't go-to war strikes me as odd though. That's the single easiest way to protect their money making interests.
Why would that be the single easiest way to protect their money making interest? You are looking at it too simply. For them, trading with everyone would be in their best interests while remaining neutral and out of conflict. It doesn't make sense for them to go to war with anyone. That only works when we are talking about a mercantilist economic system or some kind of Imperialistic system where resources are limited and a country wants to control global trade. Actually this type of system is not ideal in the long term because it only leads to more conflict and eventually will collapse an economy. The economy in the X verse is on a galactic/universal scale with virtually unlimited resources. Why would they need to make war on anyone? It makes more sense for corporations to compete with each other than nations. The teladi are also a little more unique than other factions, in my opinion the Teladi (if they were real) would rely entirely on mercenary forces for security purposes, perhaps getting involved in conflicts behind the scenes, but never getting involved in galactic/intergalactic conflicts but instead playing both sides against each other by trading with all parties involved, etc.

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Re: [MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War V. 4.0

Post by DeadAirRT » Sat, 29. Feb 20, 00:38

Different outlook i suppose. In order for a company to secure market share against competitors with nearly unlimited resources, they need to reduce their enemies production since increasing their own could be easily matched. Sabotage etc isn't really a viable tactic in game so the next best is war to destroy stations. Trading and production of goods benefit from more consumers but not as much as a monopoly and more consumers.

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Re: [MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War V. 4.0

Post by BlackRain » Sat, 29. Feb 20, 01:06

DeadAirRT wrote:
Sat, 29. Feb 20, 00:38
Different outlook i suppose. In order for a company to secure market share against competitors with nearly unlimited resources, they need to reduce their enemies production since increasing their own could be easily matched. Sabotage etc isn't really a viable tactic in game so the next best is war to destroy stations. Trading and production of goods benefit from more consumers but not as much as a monopoly and more consumers.
First, you are looking at it as if they are all companies or something but they aren’t. Also, what market share? You are saying the Teladi government would just want to go to war with all those who are their consumers? Who do you think they are selling their goods to? Do you think it is possible in a realistic setting for them to just go to war with anyone they want and then happily sell to anyone? That’s absurd. Not to mention the burden constant warfare would put on them. It doesn’t work like that. In our own world, war is usually a tool to obtain resources, whether that be land or something like oil. Yes, it could be used to open up trade markets but that is only when one nation is vastly more powerful than the other. Even then, ultimatey these fail over time and are not sustainable and eventually become a liability. None of this applies to the x verse. One, there is no lack of “land” (read space), there is no lack of resources either. Market share may be an issue for individual companies, but I would even argue that it might not even be that much of an issue due to the immense potential for population growth in the x verse and the constant expansion of industry due to the plethora of worlds and stations in space, etc. I think we just find the idea of corporations fighting each other in space a fun idea, but is it actually necessary or even ideal? Market share growth is practically limitless in my opinion. Nonetheless there is no way the Teladi would profit through going to war with their own potential consumers and there is no way they could really overpower the others anyway.

Sorry, got a little too into it lol.

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Re: [MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War V. 4.0

Post by Spiny_Ewg » Sat, 29. Feb 20, 04:27

Well, the one who does not want random wars between factions, can consider the option of not installing such a mod. :D

I use this mod and a random number generator to change diplomacy: viewtopic.php?f=181&t=419916
We get very interesting conflicts and alliances from time to time :)

Worsening and improving relationships would be nice...

For example, the relationship between two telladi factions Is a Union with the sign 5. It is necessary that 6 times the random number generator fell on the deterioration of relations that a conflict would break out between them. Between Teladi and argon a flare by accident, the conflict could quickly...

Newinger
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Re: [MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War V. 4.0

Post by Newinger » Sun, 1. Mar 20, 00:52

Question about v4 of the mod: Do I understand it correctly that based on my choices in the config file, I can also give non-Xenon factions a bit more power? I tried it when the Xenon started to invade Hatikvah's Choice and the factions were outnumbered. I installed your mod and only gave the non-Xenon factions more fleets and fighters, but not the Xenon, and finally (after still a very long and exciting to watch fight) the invading Xenon fleet was destroyed (for now...). I think it was thanks to your mod. :D

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Re: [MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War V. 4.0

Post by BlackRain » Sun, 1. Mar 20, 01:41

Newinger wrote:
Sun, 1. Mar 20, 00:52
Question about v4 of the mod: Do I understand it correctly that based on my choices in the config file, I can also give non-Xenon factions a bit more power? I tried it when the Xenon started to invade Hatikvah's Choice and the factions were outnumbered. I installed your mod and only gave the non-Xenon factions more fleets and fighters, but not the Xenon, and finally (after still a very long and exciting to watch fight) the invading Xenon fleet was destroyed (for now...). I think it was thanks to your mod. :D
You can give all factions more ships. There are options to give more fighters, more capital ships and additional fleets to defend/attack, etc. You can also increase the amount of Xenon ships if you want to.

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Re: [MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War V. 4.0

Post by Newinger » Sun, 1. Mar 20, 10:36

BlackRain wrote:
Sun, 1. Mar 20, 01:41
Newinger wrote:
Sun, 1. Mar 20, 00:52
Question about v4 of the mod: Do I understand it correctly that based on my choices in the config file, I can also give non-Xenon factions a bit more power? I tried it when the Xenon started to invade Hatikvah's Choice and the factions were outnumbered. I installed your mod and only gave the non-Xenon factions more fleets and fighters, but not the Xenon, and finally (after still a very long and exciting to watch fight) the invading Xenon fleet was destroyed (for now...). I think it was thanks to your mod. :D
You can give all factions more ships. There are options to give more fighters, more capital ships and additional fleets to defend/attack, etc. You can also increase the amount of Xenon ships if you want to.
My question was more towards the effect this has. :) For example, as some others also reported, in X4 beta 6, Xenon are very fast taking over other sectors. I observed this, too, and I am yet not able to help factions defending (I have on transport ship and one Argon Elite which I use as personal yacht to" peacefully" and calmly explore the universe).

So I installed your mod and configured it in a way that ONLY the factions get additional fighters, capital ships and fleets (but without giving the Xenon this bonus) and this was apparently enough to repel this first big Xenon attack in Hatikvah's Choice.

If this is indeed as I think, it might give me some relief to continue my peaceful calm play style, without needing worry too much about the Xenon taking over everything while I am away. (At some point, I also want to create a big company with big fleets, but not just 2 days in the game...)

Hornet108
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Re: [MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War V. 4.0

Post by Hornet108 » Sun, 1. Mar 20, 15:59

Heyo, just some feedback. I am running this and your corperations mod and I am seeing a massive number of ships parked at equipment docks. The docks seem to be well stocked, im not sure why they are there. FWIW, I don't own any sectors, so maybe thats the problem? Theres so many ships there now they have started to park up outside.

I have the following config for FOCW

Code: Select all

			
	<!-- Do you want to activate additional Xenon Miners and Xenon Energy Transport ships? 1 for Yes and 0 for No -->				
			<set_value name="md.FOCW_Config.FOCWSettings.$activateXenminers" exact="1" />
	<!-- Do you want to activate additional Xenon fighters? You can also choose from the following settings. Keep 0 to turn off, Put 1 for light, Put 2 for medium, Put 3 for heavy. This setting may impact performance depending on what setting you choose. -->
			<set_value name="md.FOCW_Config.FOCWSettings.$activateXenfighter" exact="1" />
	<!-- Do you want to activate additional Xenon Capital ships? You can also choose from the following settings. Keep 0 to turn off, Put 1 for light, Put 2 for medium, Put 3 for heavy. This setting may impact performance depending on what setting you choose. -->
			<set_value name="md.FOCW_Config.FOCWSettings.$activateXencapital" exact="0" />
	<!-- Do you want to activate additional fighters for all factions? You can also choose from the following settings. Keep 0 to turn off, Put 1 for light, Put 2 for medium, Put 3 for heavy. This setting may impact performance depending on what setting you choose. -->
			<set_value name="md.FOCW_Config.FOCWSettings.$activateallfactionsfight" exact="2" />
	<!-- Do you want to activate additional Capital ships for all factions? You can also choose from the following settings. Keep 0 to turn off, Put 1 for light, Put 2 for medium, Put 3 for heavy. This setting may impact performance depending on what setting you choose. -->
			<set_value name="md.FOCW_Config.FOCWSettings.$activateallfactionscap" exact="0" />
				
				
				
	<!-- The following are additional settings for even more ships. These are in addition to the previous settings. This may impact your performance, so please keep in mind your PC system. Do not turn on if your PC can't handle more ships -->
	
	
	<!-- Turn on additional Xenon Carriers for Defense? 0 for No, 1 for Yes -->
			<set_value name="md.FOCW_Config.FOCWSettings.$activateXencardefend" exact="0" />
	<!-- Turn on additional Xenon Carriers for Attack? 0 for No, 1 for Yes -->
			<set_value name="md.FOCW_Config.FOCWSettings.$activateXencarattack" exact="0" />
	<!-- Turn on additional Xenon Carriers for attacking player owned sectors? 0 for No, 1 for Yes -->
			<set_value name="md.FOCW_Config.FOCWSettings.$activateXencarattackpla" exact="0" />				
	<!-- Turn on additional Argon Carrier fleet? 0 for No, 1 for Yes -->				
			<set_value name="md.FOCW_Config.FOCWSettings.$activateargcar" exact="0" />
	<!-- Turn on additional Paranid Carrier fleet? 0 for No, 1 for Yes -->
			<set_value name="md.FOCW_Config.FOCWSettings.$activateparcar" exact="0" />
	<!-- Turn on additional Holy Order Carrier fleet? 0 for No, 1 for Yes -->		
			<set_value name="md.FOCW_Config.FOCWSettings.$activateholcar" exact="0" />
	<!-- Turn on additional Teladi Carrier fleet? 0 for No, 1 for Yes -->		
			<set_value name="md.FOCW_Config.FOCWSettings.$activatetelcar" exact="0" />
	<!-- Turn on additional Antigone Defense fleet? 0 for No, 1 for Yes -->		
			<set_value name="md.FOCW_Config.FOCWSettings.$activateantcap" exact="0" />
	<!-- Turn on additional Hatikvah Defense fleets? 0 for No, 1 for Yes -->		
			<set_value name="md.FOCW_Config.FOCWSettings.$activatehatcap" exact="0" />
	<!-- Turn on additional Argon Carriers for attacking player owned sectors? 0 for No, 1 for Yes -->
			<set_value name="md.FOCW_Config.FOCWSettings.$activateargcarattackpla" exact="0" />
	<!-- Turn on additional Paranid Carriers for attacking player owned sectors? 0 for No, 1 for Yes -->
			<set_value name="md.FOCW_Config.FOCWSettings.$activateparcarattackpla" exact="0" />
	<!-- Turn on additional Holy Order Carriers for attacking player owned sectors? 0 for No, 1 for Yes -->
			<set_value name="md.FOCW_Config.FOCWSettings.$activateholcarattackpla" exact="0" />
	<!-- Turn on additional Teladi Carriers for attacking player owned sectors? 0 for No, 1 for Yes -->
			<set_value name="md.FOCW_Config.FOCWSettings.$activatetelcarattackpla" exact="0" />
	<!-- Turn on additional Antigone fleets for attacking player owned sectors? 0 for No, 1 for Yes -->
			<set_value name="md.FOCW_Config.FOCWSettings.$activateantattackpla" exact="0" />
	<!-- Turn on additional Hatikvah fleets for attacking player owned sectors? 0 for No, 1 for Yes -->
			<set_value name="md.FOCW_Config.FOCWSettings.$activatehatattackpla" exact="0" />


And Corps:

Code: Select all

				<!-- Change below to configure your gaming experience -->
				<!-- Do you want the Corporations to have Security Forces that will attack your owned sector if you are their enemy? These are additional fleets which are not part of their normal security forces. If YES, leave it at 1. If NO, change to 0 -->
				<set_value name="md.CORP_Config.CORPSettings.$brjobactivatecorp" exact="1" />
				
								
				
				<set_value name="md.CORP_Config.CORPSettings.$Check" exact="0" />
I can inspect the save and try and work out what the ships parked there are doing if you like?

Newinger
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Re: [MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War V. 4.0

Post by Newinger » Sun, 1. Mar 20, 16:05

Hornet108 wrote:
Sun, 1. Mar 20, 15:59
Heyo, just some feedback. I am running this and your corperations mod and I am seeing a massive number of ships parked at equipment docks.
Don't know if you use X4 Beta 6, but your post reminded me of this thread in the beta forum which describes the same issue:

viewtopic.php?f=192&t=422336

BlackRain
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Re: [MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War V. 4.0

Post by BlackRain » Sun, 1. Mar 20, 16:16

Yeah looks like it might be a vanilla bug

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