[MOD] Foundation of Conquest and War V. 7.2

[VPanda]

Just an FYI for people who don't know. My mod isn't just some Jobs.xml mod like you may see out there. It doesn't just add jobs to jobs.xml or some kind of jobs replacement.

My mod is much different than that and was made to ensure that ships would be built and that they are more quickly and likely to get their subordinates and supplies, etc..

This is something that i'm still a little unclear on. For performance reasons in the past you gave me some advice to disable jobs.xml from certain mods which did help. But I believe you also mentioned that the way I modified a mod's jobs file meant the ships would never be built at all. I have never looked at this part of the game's code but I always thought jobs were just selected randomly by the AI. For example, let's say Argon need a new battleship. I have 4 mods that all add new battleships so they just randomly pick a job and build it. Apparently this isn't the case though because jobs get queued and built as long as they have resources and the job is "active".

What I really want is to be able to install FOCW, XR Ship Pack, Ship Variation Expansion and VRO and have the ships available to be built if the AI randomly decides to build one, but not actually have them automatically built as soon as I start a new game. I would leave the FOCW jobs file in place and use the other mods as additional options. So in other words, I'm looking to have ships from mods be added as a possibility of being built but and not simply flooding my gamestart with a million ships built from "active" jobs. I get the impression this is not possible with how the current jobs system works?

I gave you advice to disable jobs.xml from SVE because it is way too heavy of a change to the game and also ruins the balance of the game in my opinion.

Jobs are not selected randomly, that is now how it works. There are quotas set up in the jobs.xml so if a faction does not have the amount of quota ships, it will try to fill the quota. There are also MD scripts which may order additional ships above and beyond the quotas set up in jobs.xml based on certain situations, etc.

The thing with jobs is, if a shipyard is trying to build a job ship but doesn't have enough resources for a period of time or the player needs to buy ships or something, those job orders get canceled and the ships don't get built (this is hardcoded). However, it will eventually try to fill the quota again but if the economy isn't strong then the amount of ships in the game will continue to decrease, etc. So, in a vanilla game and late in the game, you will notice that you will most likely never see the same number of ships in the game as when you started and this means less conflict going on which also means the wars don't move along, etc.

Whatever is set up in jobs, if the startactive = true is set, these ships are spawned at game start (new game). That is the point of startactive. All it does is, at a new game, these jobs will spawn immediately at game start. From then, they have to be built normally according to the quota assigned in jobs.xml. In order to build ships which have startactive = false, you need an MD script to either activate them (they will then get built normally) or you can have an MD script which orders ships, etc.

I do not just activate a job fleet and then leave it to jobs to do everything. I wanted to have finer control over what gets built, how much gets built and in what kind of time intervals they get built and that is what FOCW does. If you have all options active (on) when you start a new game, all the ships will spawn. If you do not have them active but activate them later, they will periodically be ordered based on what is defined in the MDscript itself. If you know what you are doing, you can edit the script to control how many fleets get ordered and also how many ships get ordered (by editing jobs.xml in my mod).

You will not be able to get any kind of random whatever that you are hoping for with these mods. That isn't how it works. It would have to be scripted and it wouldn't be for all those mods and honestly, I don't understand why you would even want that. Each adds fleets so what is the point of having it random? Maybe I am misunderstanding something here though? I mean, my script works on timers so it is sort of random but there is still a defined amount of maximum fleets/ships it will build and the timer is relatively consistent (like every 30 minutes or every 5 minutes, etc.) You could set it up to be on a random timer like anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes for example.

Anyway, maybe that explains things? Let me know.

So you say with time spent in the game, it will become more and more boring? as less ships will be on map.
Is there one option to fix this with FOCW? As I don't want to boost factions separately

[BlackRain]

Well for the factions that were in the original game before dlc’s, I had lumped all factions into one setting but then added all new dlc factions separately. You would need to activate the dlc factions separately. You don’t have to activate every option though.

My ships/fleets are different from the ones in the base game or added by dlcs so my settings and scripts do not touch them at all. My mod can add a lot of ships though and this will make up for the ships missing in vanilla over time. One option is to start a game with all my settings off and then later turn them on. However, remember that any change could offset the balance and there is too much randomness in x4 to accurately predict what will happen. An example of this might be the factions wiping out the xenon lol.

[user1679]

Can you disable a jobs file in an active game or does it require a new start? I would assume that after the existing fleets are destroyed they just won't be rebuilt or are jobs copied to the save?

[BlackRain]

Can you disable a jobs file in an active game or does it require a new start? I would assume that after the existing fleets are destroyed they just won't be rebuilt or are jobs copied to the save?

That depends on what you are talking about. If you mean stopping ships built by my mod, all you need to do is turn them off in the config and then no new ones of that type will be built. The ones already built will remain of course.

As for in general, like for normal jobs, you need to turn them off with an mdscript. Egosoft does this with the dlcs and such when necessary or when quests are completed, etc. The ships already built would remain and no new ones would be built once they are turned off.

[user1679]

Can you disable a jobs file in an active game or does it require a new start? I would assume that after the existing fleets are destroyed they just won't be rebuilt or are jobs copied to the save?

That depends on what you are talking about. If you mean stopping ships built by my mod, all you need to do is turn them off in the config and then no new ones of that type will be built. The ones already built will remain of course.

As for in general, like for normal jobs, you need to turn them off with an mdscript. Egosoft does this with the dlcs and such when necessary or when quests are completed, etc. The ships already built would remain and no new ones would be built once they are turned off.

I was referring to unpacking a mod like VRO or SVE and actually renaming the jobs file so it wouldn't be loaded at all.

[BlackRain]

Can you disable a jobs file in an active game or does it require a new start? I would assume that after the existing fleets are destroyed they just won't be rebuilt or are jobs copied to the save?

That depends on what you are talking about. If you mean stopping ships built by my mod, all you need to do is turn them off in the config and then no new ones of that type will be built. The ones already built will remain of course.

As for in general, like for normal jobs, you need to turn them off with an mdscript. Egosoft does this with the dlcs and such when necessary or when quests are completed, etc. The ships already built would remain and no new ones would be built once they are turned off.

I was referring to unpacking a mod like VRO or SVE and actually renaming the jobs file so it wouldn't be loaded at all.

You can just delete the jobs file in SVE and that should be enough for that mod. I think VRO only makes some minor changes to jobs, if any.

[user1679]

That depends on what you are talking about. If you mean stopping ships built by my mod, all you need to do is turn them off in the config and then no new ones of that type will be built. The ones already built will remain of course.

As for in general, like for normal jobs, you need to turn them off with an mdscript. Egosoft does this with the dlcs and such when necessary or when quests are completed, etc. The ships already built would remain and no new ones would be built once they are turned off.

I was referring to unpacking a mod like VRO or SVE and actually renaming the jobs file so it wouldn't be loaded at all.

You can just delete the jobs file in SVE and that should be enough for that mod. I think VRO only makes some minor changes to jobs, if any.

Right but can I do this to an in-progress playthrough without breaking it?

[BlackRain]

I was referring to unpacking a mod like VRO or SVE and actually renaming the jobs file so it wouldn't be loaded at all.

You can just delete the jobs file in SVE and that should be enough for that mod. I think VRO only makes some minor changes to jobs, if any.

Right but can I do this to an in-progress playthrough without breaking it?

That one might be tough to say, if SVE just basically changes vanilla jobs then it should be fine as it will just keep the ships that are already built in the game doing whatever they were doing and the new ones would be the vanilla ones. I think it should be okay, but I am not entirely sure. Maybe some would be messed up. You can always test it out and see how it goes. I think the worst case scenario is having more ships than you would normally until they get destroyed maybe?

[wildfoodiemiku]

Hi, when I configure the mod I found some faction fleet has different name, does this means the fleet is mainly used for denfense purpose (when other faction do not have this limitation) or it's just a naming thing?
like 'Holy Order Defense fleet' here

Code: Select all

			
<!-- Turn on additional Paranid Carrier fleet? 0 for No, 1 for Yes -->
<set_value name="$activateparcar" exact="0" />
<!-- Turn on additional Holy Order Defense fleet? 0 for No, 1 for Yes -->		
<set_value name="$activateholcar" exact="0" />
<!-- Turn on additional Teladi Carrier fleet? 0 for No, 1 for Yes -->		

Also when dig into the logic I noticed there's some miss match in the config for 6.0 stuff like `antigoneFrigateLight/Medium/Heavy` all checking `activateboronfighters`

Code: Select all

	<cue name="job_activate_antigoneFrigateHeavy" instantiate="true" checktime="player.age + 120s" checkinterval="10min">		
		<conditions>        
		<check_value value="md.FOCWsetup.Settings.$activateboronfighters == 3"/>	
		</conditions>	 
	 <actions>	 

when boron is checking `activateallfactionsfight` ( I think it supposed to be for antigone?)

Code: Select all

	<cue name="job_activate_boronFrigateLight" instantiate="true" checktime="player.age + 120s" checkinterval="10min">		
		<conditions>        
		<check_value value="md.FOCWsetup.Settings.$activateallfactionsfight == 1"/>	
		</conditions>	 
	 <actions>	 

[BlackRain]

Hi, when I configure the mod I found some faction fleet has different name, does this means the fleet is mainly used for denfense purpose (when other faction do not have this limitation) or it's just a naming thing?
like 'Holy Order Defense fleet' here

Code: Select all

			
<!-- Turn on additional Paranid Carrier fleet? 0 for No, 1 for Yes -->
<set_value name="$activateparcar" exact="0" />
<!-- Turn on additional Holy Order Defense fleet? 0 for No, 1 for Yes -->		
<set_value name="$activateholcar" exact="0" />
<!-- Turn on additional Teladi Carrier fleet? 0 for No, 1 for Yes -->		

Also when dig into the logic I noticed there's some miss match in the config for 6.0 stuff like `antigoneFrigateLight/Medium/Heavy` all checking `activateboronfighters`

Code: Select all

	<cue name="job_activate_antigoneFrigateHeavy" instantiate="true" checktime="player.age + 120s" checkinterval="10min">		
		<conditions>        
		<check_value value="md.FOCWsetup.Settings.$activateboronfighters == 3"/>	
		</conditions>	 
	 <actions>	 

when boron is checking `activateallfactionsfight` ( I think it supposed to be for antigone?)

Code: Select all

	<cue name="job_activate_boronFrigateLight" instantiate="true" checktime="player.age + 120s" checkinterval="10min">		
		<conditions>        
		<check_value value="md.FOCWsetup.Settings.$activateallfactionsfight == 1"/>	
		</conditions>	 
	 <actions>	 

Yeah, thanks. Those are just careless mistakes from rushing. I will fix those soon. As for the Defense fleets, they are different because they do not ever get controlled by Faction logic. That means, wherever they are patrolling, they will remain there. So for defense fleets, the idea is they patrol a sector belonging to that faction and never leave the sector.

[temetvince]

Basically when I played before, I just used VRO, deadairfill and some of my own mods (like FOCW, FOCW Corporations, Employee Variety, and some other small tweaks here and there). I added a little tweak which makes the enemy see ships and stations as a higher value so they gather more ships when attacking for example. My only gripe is the AI when it comes to fighting. My ships are sometimes incompetent which is why I would like to use the AI tweaks from deadair and kuertee but last time I used it, it seemed to have a lot of errors. Will check it out again when it is updated for 6.0 release.

Hello, first off thank you for your excellent mods. I can't believe I've played like 1700 hours without them! :/

Would you care to share your settings for your last game? VRO player here. I tried setting everything in FOCW to max (except the "spawn" jobs) and started a new game and let the game play overnight. There were two problems:

• Xenon made no headway that I could tell. I also have Xenon Proliferation installed as well as Deadair's Evolution.

• My game lagged pretty badly by morning. I'm thinking this may be related to the vast numbers of fighters built on setting "3".

I'd like a game where Xenon are a real threat that the player has to grow to help, but not so overwhelming as to ruin the simulation. I'd also like a game that won't lag too much over weeks of play (I'm installing your FOCW Corps mod as we speak, which probably won't help performance). My computer is beefy but not ultra.

Thank you.

[BlackRain]

Basically when I played before, I just used VRO, deadairfill and some of my own mods (like FOCW, FOCW Corporations, Employee Variety, and some other small tweaks here and there). I added a little tweak which makes the enemy see ships and stations as a higher value so they gather more ships when attacking for example. My only gripe is the AI when it comes to fighting. My ships are sometimes incompetent which is why I would like to use the AI tweaks from deadair and kuertee but last time I used it, it seemed to have a lot of errors. Will check it out again when it is updated for 6.0 release.

Hello, first off thank you for your excellent mods. I can't believe I've played like 1700 hours without them! :/

Would you care to share your settings for your last game? VRO player here. I tried setting everything in FOCW to max (except the "spawn" jobs) and started a new game and let the game play overnight. There were two problems:

• Xenon made no headway that I could tell. I also have Xenon Proliferation installed as well as Deadair's Evolution.

• My game lagged pretty badly by morning. I'm thinking this may be related to the vast numbers of fighters built on setting "3".

I'd like a game where Xenon are a real threat that the player has to grow to help, but not so overwhelming as to ruin the simulation. I'd also like a game that won't lag too much over weeks of play (I'm installing your FOCW Corps mod as we speak, which probably won't help performance). My computer is beefy but not ultra.

Thank you.

I spend most of my time on a capital ship or station, I pretty much never take part in dog fights. So, I am not sure what people are referring to when they talk about performance issues. I don't experience lag unless I am in a sector that is heavily filled with stations and ships and then it is only a slight sluggishness. This would make dog fights difficult but for fleet battles, it is fine. This is with all of the max settings chosen.

I am not sure what Xenon proliferation or Deadair Evolution is so I can't comment on those or what impact they have. I use VRO, Deadair fill (although I kind of stopped using it after a while and instead only use it when there are serious issues), Deadair God and Deadair jobs. I was also using the KUDA AI tweaks and some other minor mods and such. I found that this actually made the factions too overpowered and the Xenon had a hard time keeping up and without my help, the Xenon was getting wiped out.

However, this is very difficult to judge because I hadn't started this game with the xenon active originally. This is the problem with balance because different games can easily lead to different outcomes, especially when you are tweaking things. Like it might be a huge difference if you start with all the options active at gamestart and if you start the game with none or only some active at gamestart.

Maybe you can try starting a new game with some of the Xenon configurations active but none of the factions active. Then, after a little bit of play, you can start activating the different factions. Maybe just activate the base options and not any of the additional carriers/defense fleets/more fleets, etc. options.

I keep trying different things myself and see so many different outcomes. However, this playthrough was the first time I was seeing the Xenon lose so badly so I am wondering how well Deadair Jobs and Deadair god are boosting the economy.

I will maybe post later with some potential options to try for a new game and then which ones to add after playing a short while.

[temetvince]

"I keep trying different things myself and see so many different outcomes. However, this playthrough was the first time I was seeing the Xenon lose so badly so I am wondering how well Deadair Jobs and Deadair god are boosting the economy."

In my testing today, DeadAir God spawned massive fleets which invaded Xenon space, doing heavy damage at the very beginning of the game. Removing DA God seems to have helped.

[DeadAirRT]

"I keep trying different things myself and see so many different outcomes. However, this playthrough was the first time I was seeing the Xenon lose so badly so I am wondering how well Deadair Jobs and Deadair god are boosting the economy."

In my testing today, DeadAir God spawned massive fleets which invaded Xenon space, doing heavy damage at the very beginning of the game. Removing DA God seems to have helped.

god doesn't cause any extra ships btw

[temetvince]

"I keep trying different things myself and see so many different outcomes. However, this playthrough was the first time I was seeing the Xenon lose so badly so I am wondering how well Deadair Jobs and Deadair god are boosting the economy."

In my testing today, DeadAir God spawned massive fleets which invaded Xenon space, doing heavy damage at the very beginning of the game. Removing DA God seems to have helped.

god doesn't cause any extra ships btw

Hmm, then I'm not sure what the difference was between the two games. Nevermind me, I'm being dumb thinking it was da god

[temetvince]

Is there a way I can easily tell if FOCW is working? I have it installed but am using many mods. I leave the game for 2-3 hours with fill set to keep shipyards and wharfs filled up to 45% every 5 minutes, yet when I come back to the game none of the shipyards except Xenon are producing L/XL ships. At the beginning of the game the Argon produced some L/XL ships, but after some time they stopped. I have all the FOCW settings set to max, the Xenon are killing ships, and I have DeadAir's Dynamic Wars mod, so the factions ought to be building ships constantly to replace their losses I would think, unless I'm misunderstanding how this works.

Here's my setup file if it's any help:
https://github.com/temetvince/x4/blob/m ... wsetup.xml

And here's my modlist:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/ ... 2974334577

Thanks!

[temetvince]

It may be working because I see things like "Vig Repo Squad", "Vig Scrapyard Raiding Party", "Arg Privateer Fleet", etc. If these are created by FOCW then I think it's functioning.

[BlackRain]

It may be working because I see things like "Vig Repo Squad", "Vig Scrapyard Raiding Party", "Arg Privateer Fleet", etc. If these are created by FOCW then I think it's functioning.

I dont think I gave the vig ships special names but Arg Privateer fleet is from FOCW. They don’t all build at once. They get ordered periodically. For destroyers, like every 20 to 30 minutes or so

[temetvince]

It may be working because I see things like "Vig Repo Squad", "Vig Scrapyard Raiding Party", "Arg Privateer Fleet", etc. If these are created by FOCW then I think it's functioning.

I dont think I gave the vig ships special names but Arg Privateer fleet is from FOCW. They don’t all build at once. They get ordered periodically. For destroyers, like every 20 to 30 minutes or so

Awesome, that means it's working! I guess I just assumed they would queue up immediately, but it's probably better to have them staggered out so other ship jobs can build.

[Scoob]

Hi,

Is it at all possible to influence the "non-proper" Factions such as SCA and BUC? These factions of course DON'T legitimately build ships, but they're spawned in as needed.

I don't understand by what rules these spawning Factions are governed, but they can sometimes go more than a little nuts, spawning excessive numbers of ships in a short period of time.

Also, could they become "proper" factions? I.e. they'd build (at their own Shipyards and Wharfs) or buy their stuff so they're actually part of the wider economy.

I'm personally not a fan of how SCA and BUC are implemented, with their ability to magically spawn in ships seemingly wherever they like. They can totally by pass blockades gates, spawning deep inside dead-end systems. I *think* they're more likely to spawn in if they have stations in the sector - I seem to observe a reduction in spawns if all stations are removed - but I'm not 100% sure on that, just what I've observed.

I also note in v6.0 - something that I've never had previously - that SCA will build stations in player-owned sectors.

Regardless, it'd be really interesting to understand how these "special" factions operate.