Tables for shields, engines, weapons, missiles, ships and wares

[Max Bain]

I extracted the game data for several important items and put them on several tables. Hope it helps to make the game more balanced...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =600017884

[Sparky Sparkycorp]

Great work - thanks!

[DrSuperEvil]

What is Angular Pitch and Roll since that seems unique to all round L and XL engines.

What is MaxHots?

Shields only include argon and xenon but not the other faction shields.

[Max Bain]

What is Angular Pitch and Roll since that seems unique to all round L and XL engines.

What is MaxHots?

Shields only include argon and xenon but not the other faction shields.

I dont know what Angular Pitch Roll and Yaw is. I thought maybe someone here coult tell me. I just extracted the values

MaxHots is a typo and should mean MaxHits (will correct that). I think that means that if you have for example a shotgun weapon which fires 5 bullets at once and MaxHits is 3 only 3 of them can do damage.. but I dont know.

[barra]

its really helpful, thank you

would you mind to add the amount of weapon and turret slots to the ships table?

[hhr]

What is Angular Pitch and Roll since that seems unique to all round L and XL engines.

I did a similar table a little earlier, there on the last tab there is an example of calculating speeds and accelerations. In known values, these parameters are not used.
Maybe they affect some game situations, but if we compare the calculated numbers from the table with the game encyclopedia, then there is no difference.

[XTC0R]

What is Angular Pitch and Roll since that seems unique to all round L and XL engines.

I did a similar table a little earlier, there on the last tab there is an example of calculating speeds and accelerations. In known values, these parameters are not used.
Maybe they affect some game situations, but if we compare the calculated numbers from the table with the game encyclopedia, then there is no difference.

Any chances you will provide an english version of your sheet?

[Max Bain]

its really helpful, thank you

would you mind to add the amount of weapon and turret slots to the ships table?

I have planned to do it, but the number of turrets is not in the ship macro file. So I need to extract it somewhere else and it is not written as a clear number but will be a list for each turret. So it is more difficult to get the exact turret number for each ship.

One other thing I am confused where maybe someone can help me:
I have listed the values for the projectiles and they have some kind of reload rate and ammunition reload. But then the turrets have a reload value as well which is not yet in my list at all. What do all these values mean?
I guess that the reload of the turret defines the reload rate of the projectile. The reload rate of the projectile might define how fast the weapon bar reloads that you can see in the HUD. But what does ammunition reload mean? Can someone tell me this?

[bicarbosteph]

For you last question, when you keep hit the fire button, it's not firing all the time. There's pause then fire again. Perhaps this number is describing the time between each salves (to reload ammunitions) ?

[hhr]

english version

These tables are obtained by the lua-script, which is located here.
You only need to edit the x4_config.lua file, specify the path to the unpacked xml files from the game and change the language codes (if the second is not needed, then equate it to "nil"). Then run 3 scripts and get csv-tables.

Code: Select all

lua53 x4_parse_lang.lua
lua53 x4_parse_index.lua
lua53 x4_parse_props.lua

number of turrets is not in the ship macro file. So I need to extract it somewhere else

Number of engines/weapons/turrets/shields there is only in 3D model descritor files.

...
<connection name="con_turret_01" tags="turret medium standard unhittable ">
...

[clowncar2131]

One other thing I am confused where maybe someone can help me:
I have listed the values for the projectiles and they have some kind of reload rate and ammunition reload. But then the turrets have a reload value as well which is not yet in my list at all. What do all these values mean?
I guess that the reload of the turret defines the reload rate of the projectile. The reload rate of the projectile might define how fast the weapon bar reloads that you can see in the HUD. But what does ammunition reload mean? Can someone tell me this?

I can help you out here, I've actually done a very similar thing to what you're doing over at viewtopic.php?f=182&t=404831

Ammunition reload appears to be the time in seconds that it takes for ammunition weapons like the gatling and pulse laser to reload their ammunition. So for instance a pulse laser mk 2 s has I think (off the top of my head) 4 ammunition that it fires of at a rate of 16 RPS (specified by the reload rate in the bullet file), then a gap of 0.7 seconds during which it's reloading that ammo, that's the ammunition reload value.

The reload value on the turrets and weapon mounts i don't yet understand, i tried to mod them to extreme values to see how they affected the fire rate, but they didn't seem to have changed at all. I hoped to try again when I have the time, just to be sure, but haven't yet gotten around to it.

[Kalantris]

The reload value on the turrets and weapon mounts i don't yet understand, i tried to mod them to extreme values to see how they affected the fire rate, but they didn't seem to have changed at all. I hoped to try again when I have the time, just to be sure, but haven't yet gotten around to it.

It could be an unused variable added only to keep the turrets/guns number of variables constant. There might be a later check to omit it if it's a turret rather than a gun. I would do it that way, as it would be way easier to remove the check then to add all the values if turrets needed a reload mechanism to balance them...

[Max Bain]

Ammunition reload appears to be the time in seconds that it takes for ammunition weapons like the gatling and pulse laser to reload their ammunition. So for instance a pulse laser mk 2 s has I think (off the top of my head) 4 ammunition that it fires of at a rate of 16 RPS (specified by the reload rate in the bullet file), then a gap of 0.7 seconds during which it's reloading that ammo, that's the ammunition reload value.

I havent understood that. Lets try it with an example:

bullet_gen_m_gatling_01_mk2_macro has
Damage: 46
ReloadRate: 12
Ammunition: 24
AmmunitionReload: 1

Does that mean that when the weapon is fully loaded, it can fire 24 projectiles in 24 seconds (1 sec ammunition reload)?
And does ReloadRate mean that in 12 seconds all 24 bullets are reloaded? And does the weapon reload start when one bullet is missing in the mag? But then the reload would be faster than the weapon can shoot... 0.5 sec per Bullet vs 1 sec. per ammunition.
I am confused...

I need the exact formula for weapon dps.

[SMoOoVEeR]

Ammunition reload appears to be the time in seconds that it takes for ammunition weapons like the gatling and pulse laser to reload their ammunition. So for instance a pulse laser mk 2 s has I think (off the top of my head) 4 ammunition that it fires of at a rate of 16 RPS (specified by the reload rate in the bullet file), then a gap of 0.7 seconds during which it's reloading that ammo, that's the ammunition reload value.

I havent understood that. Lets try it with an example:

bullet_gen_m_gatling_01_mk2_macro has
Damage: 46
ReloadRate: 12
Ammunition: 24
AmmunitionReload: 1

Does that mean that when the weapon is fully loaded, it can fire 24 projectiles in 24 seconds (1 sec ammunition reload)?
And does ReloadRate mean that in 12 seconds all 24 bullets are reloaded? And does the weapon reload start when one bullet is missing in the mag? But then the reload would be faster than the weapon can shoot... 0.5 sec per Bullet vs 1 sec. per ammunition.
I am confused...

I need the exact formula for weapon dps.

reloadrate is basically rate of fire as it appeares to me

Damage: 46
ReloadRate: 12 --> 12 rounds/second
Ammunition: 24 --> 24 rounds fired in 2 seconds
AmmunitionReload: 1 --> reload new magazine in 1 second, again fire 24 rounds in 2 seconds Ammunitionreload is further considered as magreload(time)

so initial dmg is (46 x 24)/2 per magazine so initial dps = (46 x 12) which gets more complicated over time because of heat and magreload-time

so next step: simplify by heat, after 2sec you have to reload for 1 sec, so in average you get 24 rounds per 3 sec and so 8 rounds per second in average and (46 x 24)/3 dps : 368 dps

considering heat now: standard and heavy weapons get 10000 overheat, cool rate of 2000 and cooldelay on 1.13

s_gattling_mk2 has 55 heat/round makes 181.8 rounds until overheating, since delay tops ammoreload it should not be considered

this makes 7.57 magazines until overheat and since 3 seconds per 24 round-magazine results in 22,72 seconds until overheating plus delay and cooldown. Now simpliefy: take whole cooldown before starting to shoot again, which makes most sense because of the delay time:

5 sec to cooldown + 1.13 delay results in 28.85 seconds to unload 181.8 rounds makes round about 378 rounds per minute: 17392,1 dpm resulting in 289,86 effective dps

in "simple" formula:

((heatcapacity/bulletheat)/(((heatcapacity/bulletheat)/(ammo/((ammo/rate)+magreload))+cooldowntime+cooldowndelay))*bulletdamage = dps



(heatcapacity/bulletheat)= a
(ammo/((ammo/rate)+magreload)= b
(cooldowntime+cooldowndelay)= c
bulletdamage = x

(a/((a/b)+c))*x

bullets without magazines simply get magreload = 0 so b = (1/rate)+c


intresting point is: turrets dont have heatcapacity

original gattling_s : 174,17 dps with 20 ammo 1s magreload and rate of 10 and damage of 32
original turret_gattling_m: 48 dps with 15 ammo 1s magreload and rate of 10 and damage of 8 setting a = 1

[clowncar2131]

reloadrate is basically rate of fire as it appeares to me

Damage: 46
ReloadRate: 12 --> 12 rounds/second
Ammunition: 24 --> 24 rounds fired in 2 seconds
AmmunitionReload: 1 --> reload new magazine in 1 second, again fire 24 rounds in 2 seconds Ammunitionreload is further considered as magreload(time)

so initial dmg is (46 x 24)/2 per magazine so initial dps = (46 x 12) which gets more complicated over time because of heat and magreload-time

so next step: simplify by heat, after 2sec you have to reload for 1 sec, so in average you get 24 rounds per 3 sec and so 8 rounds per second in average and (46 x 24)/3 dps : 368 dps

considering heat now: standard and heavy weapons get 10000 overheat, cool rate of 2000 and cooldelay on 1.13

s_gattling_mk2 has 55 heat/round makes 181.8 rounds until overheating, since delay tops ammoreload it should not be considered

this makes 7.57 magazines until overheat and since 3 seconds per 24 round-magazine results in 22,72 seconds until overheating plus delay and cooldown. Now simpliefy: take whole cooldown before starting to shoot again, which makes most sense because of the delay time:

5 sec to cooldown + 1.13 delay results in 28.85 seconds to unload 181.8 rounds makes round about 378 rounds per minute: 17392,1 dpm resulting in 289,86 effective dps

in "simple" formula:

((heatcapacity/bulletheat)/(((heatcapacity/bulletheat)/(ammo/((ammo/rate)+magreload))+cooldowntime+cooldowndelay))*bulletdamage = dps



(heatcapacity/bulletheat)= a
(ammo/((ammo/rate)+magreload)= b
(cooldowntime+cooldowndelay)= c
bulletdamage = x

(a/((a/b)+c))*x

bullets without magazines simply get magreload = 0 so b = (1/rate)+c


intresting point is: turrets dont have heatcapacity

original gattling_s : 174,17 dps with 20 ammo 1s magreload and rate of 10 and damage of 32
original turret_gattling_m: 48 dps with 15 ammo 1s magreload and rate of 10 and damage of 8 setting a = 1

Having done a DPS analysis in my spreadsheet I linked above, this appears to be spot on with one exception in the heating (even though I haven't gotten around to adding that to the analysis), not sure if you are aware of the interaction between weapons and coolrate. Someone over at the X4 reddit pointed this out and I played around with values to test. The cool rate of weapons is divided by the number of weapons cooling it would appear. So all weapons cool at a rate of 2000 heat/s but if you have 2 weapons cooling, they appear to cool at 1/2 that, 1000 heat/s. I tried to verify this as best as possible by altering the coolrate and heat values of various weapons and trying them in tandem. They always appeared to cool at 1/N of the specified rate where N was the number of weapons with heat to cool. So that would affect calculated DPS for any weapon not in isolation.

I've played around with the values to test how things behaved and the rest is exactly as they have said in my experience.

[SMoOoVEeR]

reloadrate is basically rate of fire as it appeares to me

Damage: 46
ReloadRate: 12 --> 12 rounds/second
Ammunition: 24 --> 24 rounds fired in 2 seconds
AmmunitionReload: 1 --> reload new magazine in 1 second, again fire 24 rounds in 2 seconds Ammunitionreload is further considered as magreload(time)

so initial dmg is (46 x 24)/2 per magazine so initial dps = (46 x 12) which gets more complicated over time because of heat and magreload-time

so next step: simplify by heat, after 2sec you have to reload for 1 sec, so in average you get 24 rounds per 3 sec and so 8 rounds per second in average and (46 x 24)/3 dps : 368 dps

considering heat now: standard and heavy weapons get 10000 overheat, cool rate of 2000 and cooldelay on 1.13

s_gattling_mk2 has 55 heat/round makes 181.8 rounds until overheating, since delay tops ammoreload it should not be considered

this makes 7.57 magazines until overheat and since 3 seconds per 24 round-magazine results in 22,72 seconds until overheating plus delay and cooldown. Now simpliefy: take whole cooldown before starting to shoot again, which makes most sense because of the delay time:

5 sec to cooldown + 1.13 delay results in 28.85 seconds to unload 181.8 rounds makes round about 378 rounds per minute: 17392,1 dpm resulting in 289,86 effective dps

in "simple" formula:

((heatcapacity/bulletheat)/(((heatcapacity/bulletheat)/(ammo/((ammo/rate)+magreload))+cooldowntime+cooldowndelay))*bulletdamage = dps



(heatcapacity/bulletheat)= a
(ammo/((ammo/rate)+magreload)= b
(cooldowntime+cooldowndelay)= c
bulletdamage = x

(a/((a/b)+c))*x

bullets without magazines simply get magreload = 0 so b = (1/rate)+c


intresting point is: turrets dont have heatcapacity

original gattling_s : 174,17 dps with 20 ammo 1s magreload and rate of 10 and damage of 32
original turret_gattling_m: 48 dps with 15 ammo 1s magreload and rate of 10 and damage of 8 setting a = 1

Having done a DPS analysis in my spreadsheet I linked above, this appears to be spot on with one exception in the heating, not sure if you are aware of the interaction between weapons and coolrate. Someone over at the X4 reddit pointed this out and I played around with values to test. The cool rate of weapons is divided by the number of weapons cooling it would appear. So all weapons cool at a rate of 2000 heat/s but if you have 2 weapons cooling, they appear to cool at 1/2 that, 1000 heat/s. I tried to verify this as best as possible by altering the coolrate and heat values of various weapons and trying them in tandem. They always appeared to cool at 1/N of the specified rate where N was the number of weapons with heat to cool. So that would affect calculated DPS for any weapon not in isolation.

I've played around with the values to test how things behaved and the rest is exactly as they have said in my experience.

oh well, no i was not aware of that thank you. just went in for fun not seriously testing it by now

[SirNukes]

Damage: 46
ReloadRate: 12 --> 12 rounds/second
Ammunition: 24 --> 24 rounds fired in 2 seconds
AmmunitionReload: 1 --> reload new magazine in 1 second, again fire 24 rounds in 2 seconds Ammunitionreload is further considered as magreload(time)

I think this is slightly off: the reload delay is only between bullets in the burst, not for every bullet. So burst duration would be 23/12 or 1.92 seconds in this example. In in-game encyclopedia has this (ammunition-1) aspect included in its rate of fire calculation, though it had some other bug as of 1.32 (viewtopic.php?f=146&t=409379).

Also, not sure if there is any interest, but my x4 modding tool has some support for converting the xml weapon data to html tables (optionally after mods are applied). I hate to duplicate effort, though, and am open to merging in better developed table generation code (if in python).

[clowncar2131]

Damage: 46
ReloadRate: 12 --> 12 rounds/second
Ammunition: 24 --> 24 rounds fired in 2 seconds
AmmunitionReload: 1 --> reload new magazine in 1 second, again fire 24 rounds in 2 seconds Ammunitionreload is further considered as magreload(time)

I think this is slightly off: the reload delay is only between bullets in the burst, not for every bullet. So burst duration would be 23/12 or 1.92 seconds in this example. In in-game encyclopedia has this (ammunition-1) aspect included in its rate of fire calculation, though it had some other bug as of 1.32 (viewtopic.php?f=146&t=409379).

Also, not sure if there is any interest, but my x4 modding tool has some support for converting the xml weapon data to html tables (optionally after mods are applied). I hate to duplicate effort, though, and am open to merging in better developed table generation code (if in python).

You should be correct, the first shot would fire instantaneously, so the duration would be slightly lesser in the event you want to turn this into precision science. Although for all I know, the ammunition reload could wait until it tries to fire again and finds no ammo to fire which would add back that .08 second after the last shot. Not saying this is the case, though it could be tested by putting a noticeable reload rate between shots. I would assume if the in game entry accounts for that ammo-1, then it probably isn't coded like I suggested.