[#1116]Xenon Stations Not Building

[jlehtone]

As update to my previous comment: viewtopic.php?p=5185836#p5185836

Game version is now 6.0 HF5. The XEN station in question has received some Ore. Under 50% of the need,
but sufficient to complete at least 1-2 modules. With successful claim of sector there are now two more
build sites. They lack Ore.

Something has improved Silicon delivery, and Ore logistics is "almost there".
Is that due to game's variables (patch) or due to changes in XEN job queue pressure (normal fluctuation due simulation)?
Can't say.

Overall, the balance is tricky.
If ships are priority, then stations won't build. Xenon is strong, but cannot invade.
If stations are priority, then XEN runs out of ships, and ultimately out of stations too.

[NilusBavarius]

Greetings jlehtone,

Is that due to game's variables (patch) or due to changes in XEN job queue pressure (normal fluctuation due simulation)?
Can't say.

Overall, the balance is tricky.
If ships are priority, then stations won't build. Xenon is strong, but cannot invade.
If stations are priority, then XEN runs out of ships, and ultimately out of stations too.

I can confirm, HF5 had some very interesting effects and side-effects (compared to HF4 and 5.x), not only on the Xenon front.

Spoiler

Show

Mostly the Energy, Hullpart and Claytronics Economy for the Commonwealth got massively improved (probably due to the fixed docking/stalling issue in the Avarice System/Sectors).

About 1-2 hours after patching from HF4 to HF5, Xenon started to place Building Sites for Wharf/Yard in occupied space (before they tried to build them on expansion into Teladi territory, despite still having Sectors without any of the two types).

In my case they now have a Wharf and a Yard (either built or in construction) in every Sector they hold but still lack 2 Yards and 1 Wharf of which they placed a Building Site in unoccupied/grey Sector which als doesn't get any delivery, next to the already existent Def Station Building Site (about 25-30 ingame hours now).

Tried to force them to expand into this direction by claiming the Sector with a simple Test Station, a lonely Admin Module (as far as I have heard, this mitigates this "game-rule" of not expanding into unclaimed Sectors) which got instantly wiped out - the agression/attack ai works fine, as far as I can tell!

The Goal for the next sessions was to gather a small group of S and M Trade Ships with big Cargo Hold, stuff them into a Mammoth (Argon Constructor) and try to break through the 2 Sector wide Blockade for a more defensible Station to give the Xenon the chance to have some time to supply their own Def Station and the newly placed Yard Building Site while playing with the new Station of mine.

The current Map/Plan to be clear: https://imgur.com/a/jgRqeBC

TL/DR: Small improvements on the Xenon front and cocky plan to help them without the "suck wares into build storage" -trick

Cheers,
Nilus

[NilusBavarius]

I've had a quick look and the stations are indeed waiting for ore to be delivered. I'll have to dig a bit deeper to figure out where the miners are and what they're doing.

Greetings,

Have done a lot more testing and it seems the Yards and Wharfs demand is overwhelming the limited amount of miners which causes them to not being able to supply building sites.
On a fresh gamestart this isn't as severe, as the Xenon pockets are somewhat "small" with only one Yard and Wharf, combined with good Resource fields and a "choke point" to funnel the ships through.
In addition the Xenon Faction/War AI seems to prioritize "attack" before infrastructure and in the example I used (with Ianamus Zura and Open Market Trading Stations drawing them towards, combined with the "lack of" proper resource Systems) they immediately used available minerals to build attack fleets to burn them on the border.

For testing purposes I used the cheat module to fill up all Yards and Wharfs with resources to "force" the Mineral Distributors to serve other demands (building sites) which actually worked.

Maybe that's helpful, maybe not.

Have a great one,
Nilus

Edit: Open Market Trading Station, not Grand Exchange

[xrogaan]

[...]
For testing purposes I used the cheat module to fill up all Yards and Wharfs with resources to "force" the Mineral Distributors to serve other demands (building sites) which actually worked.
[...]

I had the same idea as yourself, however I couldn't make the cheat menu works on Xenon build sites. Could you describe how you did this? Maybe I'm not using the right mod. Is there a different one?

[NilusBavarius]

Greetings,

I had the same idea as yourself, however I couldn't make the cheat menu works on Xenon build sites. Could you describe how you did this? Maybe I'm not using the right mod. Is there a different one?

Yeah, Iseeu0's unfortunately doesn't work on Xen Build Storages, that's the reason why I went the more tedious route by filling up the Resource Storages of all the Yards and Wharfs (NOT the Build Storages) to cut the demand from them, freeing up resources to be delivered to Building Sites.

[xrogaan]

Greetings,

I had the same idea as yourself, however I couldn't make the cheat menu works on Xenon build sites. Could you describe how you did this? Maybe I'm not using the right mod. Is there a different one?

Yeah, Iseeu0's unfortunately doesn't work on Xen Build Storages, that's the reason why I went the more tedious route by filling up the Resource Storages of all the Yards and Wharfs (NOT the Build Storages) to cut the demand from them, freeing up resources to be delivered to Building Sites.

Ah, I understand. I might have misread you initially. It is actually impossible to fill the build storage of the xenon build site, because they don't have any. If you fly close to them in scan mode, you'll see the storage to be 0/0.

[NilusBavarius]

Greetings,

... It is actually impossible to fill the build storage of the xenon build site, because they don't have any. If you fly close to them in scan mode, you'll see the storage to be 0/0.

Well, actually, they have a Build Storage, as do all other Stations. The extra docking ports with the red containers on the "south" side of the building cube.
The Storage you might have seen in scan mode is the internal one of the respective module.

[Harpya]

Hi there,
again, I am reviving a thread with an unsolved problem.

My game:
V 6.20
All DLC
No Mods
Young Gun start
English
Several hundred hours in.

Savegame:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18ow8OZ ... sp=sharing

DXDIag:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eGglun ... sp=sharing
This is from my laptop, my beefier i7 14770K / RTX 3080 system has the same symptoms.

Problem:
Xenon are positioning station build sites, but not building them up. Hull is stuck at 15 percent

CIrcumstances / Situation:
- The Xenon are VERY strong and aggressive. They just cannot build.
- After fighting the Xenon for a long time, reducing them to two seperate regions with several connected sectors, I tried to make them stronger again for dozens of hours: I opened up their systems, by removing defense platforms, and I stopped supplying the NPC factions with ships.
- Xenon have all ressources in two regions, north and east with 4 + 5 connected sectors each.
- Xenon produce a ton of military ships.
- Xenon hardly produce any freighters / miners.
- Xenon set up wharfs and defense platforms, but do not build them up. I do not believe they reach any sort of station limit since they are not strewn all over the map.

My guess would be the lack of freighters/miners...?

Any ideas? I would really love to fight them for territory again, like I used before.

[HeinzS]

- Xenon have all ressources in two regions, north and east with 4 + 5 connected sectors each.

In the east, the resources have run out, so its miners fly to the Kritt family. The station construction sites only contain EZ.

[Harpya]

Thank you, Heinz, that is interesting!

So, once they are out, they are out for good?

Would I have to hand the Xenon a corridor to new areas? Do ressources not respawn in the game?

That would mean that after a certain time one would have to start over? Or is there any workaround?

Edit:
last I checked, a few in game days ago, they still had ore. Also, the sector map still shows ressources, alas not many, true. Is there a way to check contents of build storage other than destroying it?

[Alan Phipps]

Natural resources do indeed slowly respawn, but if miners then gather there then the new resources can quickly deplete again.

One oddity is that if the player becomes IS/high attention then asteroids may appear which can then be mined whatever the currently depleted 'natural' resource density. Whether you would want to hang around just to feed Xenon with better resource opportunities is another matter.

Still, we shouldn't be having this discussion in a Tech Sp issue thread.

[Harpya]

Thank you. But, just so I get it right: is this behaviour considered a bug or not? I have not seen a new Xenon station that was actually built up in dozens of hours.

For example: I cleared Hewas Twin II for the Xenon. It is full of ressources, and after a brief struggle with the other races they now have full control with a huge force of Ks etc. However, the two prospected Xenon stations are not being built. This was not the case in the earlier phases of my playthrough.

[HeinzS]

I suspect that the Xenon primarily supply the shipyards with raw materials and they probably don't have enough miners for the large number of shipyards.

[Buzz2005]

even with a mod that fills xenons wharf and shipyards full the problem is still there, its something to do with miners bc with a mod that makes miners that only mine 1 type of resources ore or silicon the problem is solved

[Harpya]

The lack of xenon miners was my first impression as well.

So, the only solution for now would be to use mods? Which means a modded game? I was hoping to avoid that. Or is there a way to edit the save game without making the game modded?

Is Egosoft aware of the problem, and are there any plans to fix it? I could not find anything on that behalf.

Edit:
Heinz, are you suggesting that there are too many xenon shipyards in my save? I could destroy some, but even now they are already trying to build more in the adjacent sectors, so the game engine itself does not seem to see this as a problem.

[CBJ]

This thread has a report number in its title, which means we are aware of the report and will investigate it. We've not got to that stage yet, though, so we can't yet answer whether or not it's intended behaviour.

[Harpya]

Thank you for the quick reply. I was just wondering, because this has been reported last may already. If my reported issue is something else, I could start a new thread.

[Harpya]

After some more observation, trying to leave the Xenon alone as much as I can, short from shooting down the terran intervention forces, I see two things:

1. Occasionly, a miner or energy trader goes to the build storage of one of the posted stations.
- However, there are far too few Xenon traders/miners it seems, and even after hours of being left alone, the station is not being built.

2. The majority of miners/energy traders try to go from the lower right corner Xenon enclave (Company Regard and the sectors below that) to to the top Xenon enclave (arc from Family Kritt to Zyarth's Dominion) and get destroyed on the way.
- However, according to the map data, there should be plenty of Ore and Silicon in the respective areas, so the traders/miners should not be required to serve the opposing ends of the map.

So, it seems like an issue with the AI not being aware that they should prioritize mining/trading in their safe area.(..?)

This thread has a number, but is there an estimate whether/when this issue will be addressed? Is this a rare occurence or is everybody just happy with the Xenon not expanding? I am not. They are VERY aggressive in my game and pumping out a lot of ships, including Ks and Is all the time, but if they do not expand, I can just ignore them which takes away from the fun.