Bombardment needs optimisation

[Kajar]

I've tried this. Besides the threat from drones, It has the downside that we cannot prioritise the L turrets, and fighters will expose themselves to enemy fire and linger in between modules, trying to get the M turrets that pose no danger to destroyers.

Uhm yeah, Fighters always expose themselves to return fire when attacking something. Be it a station or another fighter. And with 50 fighters like that you don't really need to prioritise anything. They fully disarm a defence platform in some 5 minutes at most. Usually without any losses. And if you are in a state were you have to worry about losing a few fighters costing just 500k~ credits, then maybe you aren't quite ready yet for a campaign against the xenon.
Of course, if the station deploys a drone swarm this is a bad idea to do and the losses will actually be noticeable. There using a ship like the Falx to snipe the Gravitons with missiles before sending in the destroyers is the better option.

[Ragnos28]

And if you are in a state were you have to worry about losing a few fighters costing just 500k~ credits, then maybe you aren't quite ready yet for a campaign against the xenon.

In my current game I think I have 16 billions , I just don't like to occur losses if I don't have to.
Also I don't want to take the route of "welp, I lost 100 Gladius taking down that station...time to order 100 more from my uber shipyard ". (actually seen this from a youtube clip of someone showing how he completed the VIG, destroy a station, mission )

[flywlyx]

From what I've seen, a determining factor is the forward x-shape formation, the bombard role is just there to ensure that the destroyers are not distracted by other targets, until the atack order is issued for the entire wing. That is why, in order to apply this tactic, some forces must be dedicated to kill any capital ships that come to the station's aid, either an player controled Asgard or a S bomber wing, so that the destroyers are not disturbed.
It is true that, if line of sight for the 2nd, 3nd...and so on, target, is not clear, ships will try to get closer, but that is were forward x-shape formation come in to play, because it will have ships both on top and bottom, with only the lead ship being on the same level with the target station.
And if this tactic works against against xenon wharfs, that have defence modules obscured by other modules, it will certainly works against defence stations, where the top section does not have L turrets.

As I said, you are doing the same thing as coordinated attacks do, and your method is limited to a certain amount of destroyers, if you have more than 11, you are back to luck again, because the formation will not work the same anymore.
The point of a fix formation is totally eliminating the possibility that ships will embrace the station on its own.

Finished my test with terran destroyers: https://youtu.be/z5_Ub8BsLPg
Still works.
Some close calls with some really good hidden defence modules (luckly, the exploding nearby modules, took out the turrets), but like I said, xenon wharfs are tough targets.

They are lucky that the turrets are gone, station embracing is clearly still there.

[Ragnos28]

As I said, you are doing the same thing as coordinated attacks do, and your method is limited to a certain amount of destroyers, if you have more than 11, you are back to luck again, because the formation will not work the same anymore.
The point of a fix formation is totally eliminating the possibility that ships will embrace the station on its own.

Are you sure? I did not use coordinated atack atack that much, but from what I remember the ships stayed at the same plain, there was no distribution of ships on top and ships on bottom. There was also the issue of destroyers happily
flying under the graviton turret fire to reach the atack position.
Anyway, the ships are still at the location, so I will test the coordinated atack in the same scenario, and link the clip. Somehow I doubt I will get the same survival rate.

Also, why the forward x formation would not work with more that 11 ships? From what I've seen, there is always the leader ship on the middle plain, with the subordonates going up or down in relation to the leader position.

In regards of fixed formation...the problem with formations is that they have as central point the leader ship, not the atack target. The circle formation for ex., will move the subordonates in a circle around the leader, but that will not help if an atack order is issued against a station, no matter how fixed the formation is.

They are lucky that the turrets are gone, station embracing is clearly still there.

Yes, but even a player would have some dificulty position a ship to have a good angle against those hidden modules. Doubt we will have an AI that will duplicate that action anytime soon.
But if the target would had been a defence station, as in no hidden modules, I think my tactic would have close to 100% efficiency.

[flywlyx]

Are you sure? I did not use coordinated atack atack that much, but from what I remember the ships stayed at the same plain, there was no distribution of ships on top and ships on bottom. There was also the issue of destroyers happily
flying under the graviton turret fire to reach the atack position.
Anyway, the ships are still at the location, so I will test the coordinated atack in the same scenario, and link the clip. Somehow I doubt I will get the same survival rate.

You could adjust the final position of coordinated attack, so it is the same thing if you put the same location.

Also, why the forward x formation would not work with more that 11 ships? From what I've seen, there is always the leader ship on the middle plain, with the subordonates going up or down in relation to the leader position.

With more than 11 ships, the formation will duplicate itself and end up with a lot of ships too close to eachother.

In regards of fixed formation...the problem with formations is that they have as central point the leader ship, not the atack target. The circle formation for ex., will move the subordonates in a circle around the leader, but that will not help if an atack order is issued against a station, no matter how fixed the formation is.

Controlling one ship is way easier than controling11 ships, players could plan a route for the commander ship to finish the order.

Yes, but even a player would have some dificulty position a ship to have a good angle against those hidden modules. Doubt we will have an AI that will duplicate that action anytime soon.
But if the target would had been a defence station, as in no hidden modules, I think my tactic would have close to 100% efficiency.

As soon as the ships start moving on their own, you are relying on the code to put it in the correct position, and we have countless examples to prove the code is not even close to reliable at the current stage.
So the easiest solution is to give the decision back to players instead of these unreliable scripts.

[Ragnos28]

You could adjust the final position of coordinated attack, so it is the same thing if you put the same location.

I would still need to drag and drop the waypoints for every ship in the wing, and while this is easier that giving "move to position" orders to each destroyer, at 8 km around the station, is still too much micro for my taste.

No, I intend to test coordinated atack, like so:
- move the entire wing of destroyers, close enough to the station, that travel drive is not used
- select the defend role for the subordonates (so bombard, or bombard formation, is not envolved)
- give coordinated atack orders for the wing, w/o any move/atack command issued until the station is destroyed
That way I will be convinced that the coordinated atack, can duplicate my curent tactic.

With more than 11 ships, the formation will duplicate itself and end up with a lot of ships too close to eachother.

Can't test this yet, none of my fleets have more that 10 destroyers.
You are talking about the distance in relation of the leader ship or the distance betwin the ships that are above and below the leader?

[Ragnos28]

I've finished the coordinated atack test: https://youtu.be/EIsWmbil9U8
I don't think that coordinated atack is a good alternative to my method. , there is a slight diference in casualties...

[flywlyx]

Can't test this yet, none of my fleets have more that 10 destroyers.
You are talking about the distance in relation of the leader ship or the distance betwin the ships that are above and below the leader?

No, there is a built-in limit that ships can't get too close to each other, so if they will be too close to each other, they will move somewhere else.

I've finished the coordinated atack test: https://youtu.be/EIsWmbil9U8
I don't think that coordinated atack is a good alternative to my method. , there is a slight diference in casualties...

As I said, you need to adjust the position of the coordinated attack, the default position doesn't work in most cases.

[Ragnos28]

No, there is a built-in limit that ships can't get too close to each other, so if they will be too close to each other, they will move somewhere else.

Ahh, you mean the "bouble"? That's not really a problem, all I really need is that subordonates keep the distance from the wing leader, as long as they take position up and down in regard to the leader position, they could spread as much as they want.
More distance between ships = more atack vectors = more chances that some destroyers will be able to target the hidden defence module.

As I said, you need to adjust the position of the coordinated attack, the default position doesn't work in most cases.

That just mean that I'm back to @GCU Grey Area method of manual repositioning of each destroyer, something that I really try to avoid.

[flywlyx]

Ahh, you mean the "bouble"? That's not really a problem, all I really need is that subordonates keep the distance from the wing leader, as long as they take position up and down in regard to the leader position, they could spread as much as they want.
More distance between ships = more atack vectors = more chances that some destroyers will be able to target the hidden defence module.

The problem is you lose the prediction of their destination, they might decide to hug the station directly or move too back and shoot your other destroyer on the back.

That just mean that I'm back to @GCU Grey Area method of manual repositioning of each destroyer, something that I really try to avoid.

Manual repositioning is the only way in the current game to totally avoid station embracing, other methods are more or less dependant on luck.
This is so frustrating, I am just using 11 Asgards OOS for now. AI is way too brain-dead to use capital ships.